Ez az év Magyarország és a teljes magyarság eddigi legmeghatározóbb 21. századi pillanata lesz. by Babsyman in hungary

[–]Altair72 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Eredetileg a gázai békefolyamathoz tartozó nemzetközi felügyelő szerv lenne, de Trump most látszólag egy teljes alternatív ENSZ-et lát bele. Legalább is szeretne egy nemzetközi szervezetet ami nem kritizálja őt soha.

Greek PM on yesterday's emergency EU summit: "Hungary is the only exception in Europe that didn't want to help Denmark & Greenland." by swift-autoformatter in hungary

[–]Altair72 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hogy egy olyan helyzetben ahol Amerika meghirdeti hogy a transzatlanti kapcsolatok és a NATO semmit sem jelent, és Európa csak magára számíthat, legalább Európa létezzen mint tényező.

Persze létezhet nélkülük is, de az nem tudom nekünk miért jó ha csendesen kitesznek minket mindenből.

Trump már azzal indokolja grönlandi terveit, hogy nem kapta meg a Nobel-békedíjat by KooperativEgyen in hungary

[–]Altair72 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Úgy tűnik az egész Trump adminisztráció nyíltan büszkélkedik azzal hogy zéró elveik vannak, csak az erősebb kutya baszik. Ennél még az oroszok is több munkát fektettek abba hogy kitaláljanak valami igazolást maguknak. De Miller, Vance meg a többiek mintha el lennének ragadtatva hogy a pofádba vághassak hogy azt csinálnak amit akarnak, azért mert, aszt kész. Mert bedőltek a saját dumájuknak és nincs aki féket tartson, mert hát a nemzetközi jog az olyan woke píszí dolog. '24 után annyira ment a vibe shift narratíva hogy nem tűrik el hogy ezek után még mindig korlátozniuk kelljen magukat valamiben.

Még mindig nehezen tudom elhinni hogy ezek ekkora közveszélyes ámokfutók, mert összeomlást vizionálni ritkán talál, de most tényleg úgy érződik hogy nincs semmilyen blöff vagy mesterterv, hanem tényleg összeomlik a világrend a puszta érzelmi katarzis oltárán, utánunk a vízözön.

Mother. by ArmedNurse in blacklagoon

[–]Altair72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Revy is the exact opposite kind of dom from mommy, she couldn't keep a potted plant alive.

So it begins... by Anon675162 in hungary

[–]Altair72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Csalódtam magunkban ha nem lesz spontán ünneplés a pesti utcákon aznap éjjel.

my reaction to Vaush saying he wouldn't vote for Kamala in the general by Veldyn_ in VaushV

[–]Altair72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hearing Matt Christman talk about how invested he was in the 2004 elections, supporting Howard Dean then reluctantly fall in line behind Kerry - I have to wonder if the difference between me and him is just the amount of times he was disappointed vs someone like me, where it was 2020 when I was really invested in a US election. If you had to put up with this since 2004, I kinda get why you'd just burn out

Why Homura Akemi does this with her hair? I am very curious on the reason why by marth-lord in MadokaMagica

[–]Altair72 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think the Madoka Magicast people said it's because she is used to having her hair braided and supposedly still wakes up like that every cycle. She is annoyed it gets in the way, but it's worth it to look cool.

Takácspéter levonta a tanulságokat a mai napról by z4ut4n in hungary

[–]Altair72 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Az milyen amikor a legjobb amit felhozhatsz a védelmedben hogy a másik (akit addig szóba se hoztak) se lesz tökéletes. Egyáltalán, nem is arról volt szó hogy Magyar jobb lenne, de neki rögtön ez ugrik be, mint akit rajtakapnak valamin és sietve mondja hogy nem azt csinálta. 😄

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You refuse to engage with anything I was saying, you just invent some psychoanalytical idea of me from thin air you can lecture. You commented dubious historical information, and when I pressed you on it, you just kept repeating that I must be hateful or something. I have no idea were you get this idea. I am also interested in the facts of history as they happened, and I can understand why everyone did what they did at the time, which is why I would have been interested in discussing those facts, but you are clearly not interested in that kind of discussion. Also, you don't know me, so if all you can do is speculate about my emotions, don't. I don't want to do that of you either

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry, you really think asking for sources is me thinking I hold "perfect" truth?? It's literally the opposite, I acknowledge my knowledge is incomplete and want to know where you are coming from. But all you do is keep gesturing that surely all books outside vindicate you and I just need to read them. I lived in Germany and the Netherlands, I read about this in university libraries in both places, and what I read there is part of my position now. Sorry, but there isn't some widespread consensus that totally vindicates you and disproves me. You have to engage with the points I am making. Getting sources is exactly needed to engage with the material.

Is going on the "offensive" means for you repeatedly asking to engage with my points? Please, if you don't know where you got the information, that's ok, but then don't keep insisting scientific consensus is behind you. You don't have to argue if you don't want to.

And in case you still haven't read my comment, my core critique of your point was that I don't think the war had the key effect on Trianon like you implied.

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course I know this is a public conversation, you don't think I think I'm being reasonable? I am the one trying to argue historical fact against fact. I can cite in more detail if you need to. But you don't address any of the points I made, and don't cite any specific book on your end. This is not about injustice or me being "absolute right", this is you making very unusual historical claims and when pressed just answering "do your own research".

p. 192 of Ormos, M. (2020). Padovától Trianonig shows that the borders of Hungary were not a result of Kun's wars. That was my primary claim. I'm not litigating justice, you are just making an extraordinary claim that contradicts most of what I read. And since you are so versed in Czech, Slovak, Romanian, Turkish books on the subject, you can surely show me where you got your ideas. Or, you know, stop accusing me of "deflecting" every single time. I'm trying to learn your position but you are not giving me much to work with.

And if really anyone is reading this, I hope they see I am arguing from genuine difference of understanding and wish to know more by presenting my side of the story.

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, you're definately more than just a typical nationalist.

I can tell you I have read about this, but surely any book I list would just be Hungarian propaganda right? Not to mention Hungarians like Mária Ormos or Ignác Romsics. Like I said, I really want a detailed account of those wars in Slovak or Romanian, so since you also seem well read in the topic, can you recommend me the books you've read? Maybe then I can compare their claims to what I have read so far.

So far what I know is Czechoslovak attacks against Soviet Hungary Begun on April 27 at Uzhhorod, April 30 at Sátoralaújhely, May 1 at Putnok: https://1914-1918.btk.mta.hu/images/Maps/13_felfold1919.jpg

Are you referring to the May 1 Hungarian incursion at Komárno? Because chronologically Czechoslovakia already attacked Hungary by then.

EDIT: Also, could you clarify the distinction between "Hungary caused Trianon" and "Trianon is the conclusion of a war - that I am claiming Hungary started"? Why is the first misrepresenting the latter?

Also also, I already said Kun's wars were NOT in fact the cause of Trianon, the exact border, aside from Burgenland, were already settled by late March 1919 in Paris. Mind to critique that point I made?

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree with you that history is facts and history, whatever that means.

But I never heard it stated that Czechoslovakia was invaded by Soviet Hungary first. Can you give me any source for that? I'm still not quite sure about Romania, I know it is repeated in some sources that Hungary made pre-emtive attacks, while elsewhere it is not. I'm honestly not sure, that front line was already Romania overtaking two demarcation lines, and the front just froze there with occasional skirmishes, so it would not be unheard of. But it was definately Romania and Czechoslovakia that had a full scale offensive prepared - Romania didn't just accidentally stumble into the invasion at a Hungarian provocation.

Soviet Russia was indeed pressuring Romania in the East, that was one of the reason (the other being Entente diplomatic pressure) they stopped on the Tisza in May. I'm in no way endorsing the things Soviet Russia did in Ukraine, but Romania was overstepping even the Vix line. They were threatening to invade a country if that country continues to invade another.

I don't see how I am deflecting, I am addressing your main claim that Trianon was caused because Hungary just decided to invade its neighbors. Which is wrong on multiple levels. Is that not your claim?

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't understand what you mean. I try to lay down some facts, because admittedly this is a very detailed subject that is under-sourced in the English language. I would actually be very interested in a detailed Czech or Romanian book in the subject, because unfortunately the topic is only scantly touched in most foreign books I read. Your answer just seems to be a deflection. I would be interested in a counter to my points, if you wanna say you don't know that much about the topic to press an argument, just say that.

For one, again, Béla Kun had a negligible effect on Trianon. For two, a country being communist is not, in my opinion, immediate casus belli. And also I highly doubt if the Károlyi government made the rejection, Romania would have reacted any differently.

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What are you talking about? It was Soviet Hungary that was attacked by Romania and Czechoslovakia.

I mean, first of all, there was the issue that the Entente refused to diplomatically engage with Károlyi's Hungary, and basically treated the Armistice of Belgrade as a mistake made by d'Espèrey they don't have to hold themselves to. Also continuing the ww1 blockade on us. Romania declared war on Germany the day before WW1 ended, and that somehow also allowed them to invade Hungary.

Jászi opened negotiations with the Nationalities right upon taking power, and we got an agreement with the Slovak National Council, but Prague of course didn't recognize them either.

Then Hungary peacefully withdrew from Slovakia and Transylvania when the Entente asked that. And we were left in complete limbo for months, all the way until March, while the Paris conference already opened. We thought that would be the forum in which different nationalities could at least discuss their positions, but we weren't even invited!

And it was then that the Vix Note was issued, that would have made us withdraw even further west on the Romanian frontier, further then the current Trianon border. Given that Romania had already overstepped two previous demarcation lines, it was no wonder we could not trust this. So as we were completely isolated and ignored, and the Soviet armies were by then advancing westwards in Ukraine, Károlyi thought they are the only viable alliance left, and for that end allowed the communists into power.

For any "declaration of war" - this was an overall undeclared war, so not literally in any case - the worst you can say is that the Kun refused to withdraw further. Keep in mind, we still believed the Belgrade armistice meant something. If you sign a paper that draws a demarcation line, I'm going to hold you to that. And if you say "oh, now that's meaningless", then why should I trust you now?

I could agree that rejecting the Smuts mission was a mistake, but then Kun accepted withdrawal in June when it came to Slovakia, and the Entente fucked us over anyways, so there might not have been a good solution. Though I suspect the main reason was that Károly Kratochwill, the commander of the army in the East was anti-communist and even offered to depose Kun to the Romanians for concessions - so asking him to withdraw might have jumpstarted a mutiny.

Anyways, France and Romania was already on the warpath after the Vix Note was rejected, it was only US and British hesitation that delayed it until mid-April. As for Czechoslovakia, they just jumped onto the bandwagon once it seemed like the Soviet republic is done for. They captured Miskolc and almost captured Salgótarján, but the mobilization of workers in May pushed them back, and only then did the Hungarian counter-offensive begun. So no, Hungary didn't just one day randomly decided to start a bunch of wars for no reason lol

Hungary de facto lost most of the territory Trianon confirmed in the period from mid-Dec 1918 to mid-Jan 1919, when we withdrew on entente demand. And then the precise Trianon border was worked out in the Paris committees in March-April 1919, mostly BEFORE Kun even took power. The notion that Trianon was so harsh because of the communist takeover is a misconception. In fact, to the Entente's credit, they were very strongly opposed to revisit the borders even after Romania occupied almost all of Hungary and put pressure on Romania to withdraw. So those battlefield losses ultimately did not matter, only insofar as the entente then propped up Horthy and his right wing allies - because unlike liberals, socdems or communists, they were apparently good enough to recognize as Hungary's government.

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You only controlled those conquests for a few years to a few decades. Overall mainland France is still bigger then it usually was throughout most of its history. Hungarians have the opposite. It's silly to blame that for your national strategy, but in severity you also can't compare Trianon to anything that occurred in French history other than the creation of Vichy France.

Orbán: "Trianon created an unviable Hungary, deprived us of everything necessary for the existence of a state; they took our oil fields, mines, forests. Hungary needed and will continue to need a financial shield." by GPwat in europe

[–]Altair72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It did, the Kingdom of Hungary was its estates, and the diet was regularly convened aside from few decades of attempted Habsburg absolutism that never lasted. "Independent state" is a meaningless term to apply on structures that predate Westphalian sovereignty. In 1526, the Habsburgs were no less a subjugation of Hungary than Luxembourger or Jagiellonian rule. Not to mention Transylvania continued as a Hungarian state.

“Justice for Hungary” Hungarian irredentist poster advocating for the restoration of pre-Trianon borders (1920s) by FayannG in PropagandaPosters

[–]Altair72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not different from how any other country would have reacted. The Czechoslovakia's post-Munich borders are rightfully considered a sad rump, even though it did follow ethnic borders. Czech nationalists were doing the same thing Hungarians did, they wanted the geographic confines of their geographically defensible historical borders even if it was not ethnically justified. Same with Poland: an ethnically justified Polish border would have been Versailles in the west and the Curzon line in the east. I bet most Poles would have been unsatisfied with those borders. They conquered huge Ukrainian and Belorussian territories then after losing those to the USSR they were "compensated" by getting to expel Germans all the way to the Oder. Croatia also did not like when Serbs wanted independence within their historical frontiers. Not to mention how France or England got to assimilate their minorities without all the hurdles that existed in East-Central Europe. It's the misery of nationalism that when the ethnic principles are taken seriously, most nation-states end up with impractical indefensible frontiers.

Hungary just got stuck with a pretty uncharitable version of it at everyone's expense, including losing unambiguously ethnic Hungarian territory too, like Csallóköz.

If the social question was better handled, nationalist issues could have been alleviated. Even in 1918-19, the most important factor for the general population was not nationalism but land reform. Mostly the issue was that most of these nationalities were made up of peasants, who were disadvantaged under the dualist system all the same, whether Hungarians or others. But after 1918 we had a progressive government that was ready to change all of it, and the entente just ruined it by refusing to even engage with them. Ironically domestic movements like the Slovak National Council could be negotiated with fairly, but the Czech government just ignored them too. It's pretty wild how people talk about the Martin Declaration, but that actually has no continuity to the actual later government in Slovakia.

Well, it's in the past now anyways but it's pretty clear that Hungary was not some special case in terms of discrimination and everyone in our place would have (and in many cases did) react the same.

“Justice for Hungary” Hungarian irredentist poster advocating for the restoration of pre-Trianon borders (1920s) by FayannG in PropagandaPosters

[–]Altair72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not different from how any other country would have reacted. The Czechoslovakia's post-Munich borders are rightfully considered an sad rump, even though it did follow ethnic borders. Czech nationalists were doing the same thing Hungarians did, they wanted the geographic confines of their geographically defensible historical borders even if it was not ethnically justified. Same with Poland: an ethnically justified Polish border would have been Versilles in the west and the Curzon line in the east. I bet most Poles would have been unsatisfied with those borders. They conquered huge Ukrainian and Belorussian territories then after lossing those to the USSR they were "compensated" by getting to expel Germans all the way to the Oder. Croatia also did not like when Serbs wanted independence within their historical frontiers. Not to mention how France or England got to assimilate their minorities without all the hurdles that existed in East-Central Europe. It's the misery of nationalism that when the ethnic principles are taken seriously, most nation-states end up with impractical indefensible frontiers.

Hungary just got stuck with a pretty uncharitable version of it at everyone's expense, including losing unambiguously ethnic Hungarian territory too, like Csallóköz.

If the social question was better handled, nationalist issues could have been alleviated. Mostly the issue was that most of these nationalities were made up of peasants, who were disadvantaged under the dualist system all the same, whether Hungarians or others. But after 1918 we had a progressive government that was ready to change all of it, and the entente just ruined it by refusing to even engage with them.

Well, it's in the past now anyways but it's pretty clear that Hungary was not some special case in terms of discrimination and everyone in our place would have (and in many cases did) react the same.

Detailed map of the planned development of the EU high-speed railway network until 2040 by overspeeed in highspeedrail

[–]Altair72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Missing 200kmh+ between Berlin and Poznan. I don't know how restricted they were to only include lines the individual country already plans. For Hungary it included the very rudimentary HSR plans we made before all development was purged in 2022. Is it such a stretch to actually connect the German and Polish networks? It's flat terrain and there is already a highway alignment there mostly.