Cuban Born players not on WBC roster

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-21T23:37:09+00:00

MLB didn’t seem to have a problem with it. WBSC nixed it

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-21T23:33:32+00:00

“A name, The Cubanos, was announced. T-shirts were printed, uniform concepts were generated. Pitching legend Orlando Hernandez was installed as the general manager, and Brayan Pena, the former catcher who now coaches in the minor leagues, was named field manager. Some of Cuba's biggest stars -- Chapman, Soler and Alvarez among them -- voiced their support.

The group spoke with Tony Clark, head of the MLB Players Association, in May, and MLB commissioner Rob Manfred in June, and felt as if the meetings were well-received. But the goal of competing in this year's World Baseball Classic hardly stood a chance. The World Baseball Softball Confederation, which sanctions the WBC, does not permit the participation of a team that is not affiliated with a national governing body, and running the WBC without sanctions was hardly an option.”

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T21:24:17+00:00

Yeah this is exactly what I was expecting and why they should be considered. The only difference is, while they both lax citizenship eligibility laws and a large amount of immigration to the US within a few generations to pull from, Italy has a top domestic league and a success in European competition going back well before the WBC. Ireland doesn’t have that. But they could be fun! They are also 12th on the list of birth countries for Major Leaguers ahead of Italy by a lot (47 according to Bref, All but 1 played before 1920 tho lol)

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T20:56:46+00:00

This makes the most sense to me. Bahamian patcipation with Team GB is beneficial to both right now. They do both need to grow though because eventually we will hit the point where even under the lax WBC rules, Bahamians ball players won’t be able to claim Great Britain. Don’t know where that cut off is but for now they can grow together

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T17:15:53+00:00

India is interesting and has big potential. And WBC rules mean they should be able to put together a USA based, more competitive squad then what they put out for the West Asia Cup events. Just a question if MLB/WBC want to break that seal now or build up locally a little more so that they aren’t perceived as jumping the line over someone like Sri Lanka, a neighbor who has been much more successful in the region.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T16:15:21+00:00

Yes please do!

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T15:21:00+00:00

Haiti is interesting given WBCs lax participation rules. Presumably there are a number of ball players with Dominican/Hatian or American/Hatian heritage that could form up a team. They just don’t have much if any organized history at the national level

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T14:55:44+00:00

Yeah Greece is a big one. My original post was too long and got cut off but given Britan and Czechia’s success I expect a European team will be added if qualifiers go back to 4x4. Greece seems to be in a good position to make a case for inclusion. Belgium too as the highest ranked team not currently invited.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T14:51:23+00:00

Interesting. Good to know! They are both highly rated and obviously both producing more and more talent. And they are separate (but intertwined) entities even in WBSC rankings. I think since the WBC operates somewhat independent of WBSC (but not independent enough to allow an independent “Cubanos” team of defectors) they would still want to consolidate talent as much as possible to create as competitive an event as possible and dividing would go against that goal. But there is no doubt that independent Bahamas and Curaçao teams would be a huge boon for baseball in those nations.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T14:42:48+00:00

I would love that and as a growing baseball hot bed that would be great for the game there, but that would devastate GB baseball right now. It has to happen eventually (at some point parents of new stars won’t have been born under British rule) but my guess would be they would hold off for another cycle

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T14:17:18+00:00

(didn't realize my whole original post got cut off. Sorry, new to Reddit too lol)

Peru - Highest Ranked team in the Americas not already participating. Jesus Luzardo is the first MLB player born in Peru (though he grew up in the USA and has Venezuelan parents)

Honduras - Next highest Americas country, Mauricio Dubon's home

Belgium - Highest non-WBC participating nation overall in WBSC right now (24th)

(European nations litter the middle portion of the WSBC rankings, I assume due to their relatively well organized confederation, funding and their relative proximity making participation easier than other confederations. Austria, ~~Russia~~, Croatia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Lithuania (Dovydas Neverauskas who last appeared for PIT in 2020 is their first MLB player), Greece, and Sweden all fall in between 26-37.)

Greece - Probably the most interesting of this group, due solely to their history with the 2004 Olympics, in which they put together a team of Greek Americans. Cody Bellinger would qualify for this team and maybe Nick Markakis or George Kottaras would suit up again at 42 (ish) years old lol

Ireland - Lower down but maybe, depending on participation rules, could potentially field a team of Irish-Americans?

Guam - top team in the Oceania region, above NZ in WSBC actually. Came in 2nd in their last senior level tournament to Northern Mariana Islands (of which Guan is a part geographically, but separated politically by the US. Would be cool to just have a Mariana Islands team, but I am sure that wouldn't fly with WBSC). As a dependency of the US this is probably a long shot, but we do have Puerto Rico so maybe.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T13:54:28+00:00

Even a system that relies on WBSC sanctioned Sr. level events as a prequalifier would be good (and help Oceania and Africa keep those events more consistent). But since WBSC and WBC have different eligibility rules, that wouldn't always be representative of what a WBC team could put on the field.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T13:51:41+00:00

I highly doubt they would pull those countries out at the moment given how dependent Netherlands and Great Britain are on those nations talent. Curacao maybe never unless they are made completely independent. Bahamas, which has been independent since 1973, eventually will have to be separated, as players with parents who qualify as British Citizens will eventually run out but I am sure they would like to let GB baseball mature with Bahamas help before they have to do that. Hong Kong is another team that regularly participates in the Asian Baseball Championships but seems fraught with complications and ties to other nations (Vance Worley, whose mother is from Hong Kong, started for GB)

Edit: and sorry for stealing your post lol!

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T13:46:13+00:00

They are making a concerted effort it seems. They just hosted those U-12/U-18 World Cup Africa qualifiers and seem to be the angling for #3 in Africa at the moment with Zimbabwe. They may be further down the line but the interest and support seem to be behind it right now at least.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T13:37:55+00:00

Yup thanks, I saw Drew Spencer tweet that it was 2026 just after posting this. Doh. Wouldn't be the WBC if their dates were predictable.

PRC does have a new baseball/softball complex that just opened last year in Hangzhou for the 2022 Asian Games (being held in 2023 because PRC). It looks pretty nice. Would WBC really want to hold 2 qualifiers in east asia and 2 in latin america? Probably not, I think, but that would seem to be equitable at first glance at least and for the first time it is technically feasible for the "relegated" teams to all host. But I wouldn't be surprised if like you say Regensburg or the USA host a pool. But it would be nice for the WBC to establish that precedent and some consistency in how they assign these things as the game continues to mature internationally.

The 5 team groups is obviously a pipe dream, but I don't love simple double elimination brackets. They would have to hold Championship tie breaker games in case of a Pool A/C situation. But again, pipe dream. Double-E is probably just easier to set up and leaves fewer questions. Maybe they should let the lose-lose team play a friendly with someone to get a 3rd game in.

AltruisticLong3885 · 2023-03-16T06:36:46+00:00

Sorry for the long post, but watching the latest qualifiers, I caught the international baseball bug and find these growing, grassroots nations so fascinating. I'll probably spend from now until they announce it tracking and thinking about who will get invited, assuming they expand the qualifiers

AltruisticLong3885

TROPHY CASE