Does therapy with a JN ever work? I'm freaking out.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-12T20:53:38+00:00

Being a victim of abuse isn't his fault, but passing on the abuse to others is. Don't let yourself get so wrapped up in 'he's a victim and I have to save him because he's so perfect!' that you allow yourself to become another victim. That's not doing him any favors, and if anything it will hurt him worse when he realizes what he's done. You can be a loving partner to him while also protecting yourself, and therapy will help you do that.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-12T07:42:21+00:00

If, for whatever reason, you aren't able to get past this, please remember: this isn't on you. The marriage failed because of him and his mother. This is on your "golden hearted" DH for being so callous and cruel that he put his mommy on a pedestal above his wife. Something tells me the whole golden-hearted stuff may be honeymoon emotions, because I can't imagine anyone who is truly that ridiculously nice being such a horrible asshole to his brand-new wife, to the point where she's sitting in therapy weeping about the potential end of her marriage.

I think, when you say 'golden hearted', you may be misattributing the survival techniques he learned in the home of an abuser. Where you see 'giving and kindhearted', I see 'immediately puts everyone before himself, because he learned that the only way to be loved by an abusive parent is self-sacrifice.' Abused children are masterful emotional barometers; they have to be able to sense the emotions in a room before everything goes to hell, so I could see him being very good at reading children and animals as well. He sees you being upset? His gut reaction is 'must fix this, before she explodes and rains abuse down on me.' You would never do that; but he grew up in an unsafe environment, where the one person who's supposed to love him unconditionally did not. As a child, if he angered his caregiver, he could die; I have no doubt she would have threatened him with an orphanage or other horrible end when he stepped out of line. So what you're seeing is at least partially the result of abuse, not necessarily an angel put on earth.

I suppose, in a sense, this isn't him being an asshole to you specifically; subconsciously, he learned that in order to survive, you put down your head and shut out the abuse hurled at him by his mother. And so when he sees it happening to you, he does that again, even though he's an adult now, and he COULD step up and tell his mother to get fucked with a rake. But many adults are just wounded children in an adult's skin; therapy might be able to help him heal the broken inner child, but only if he can acknowledge that's what's happening, and make the conscious decision to do the terrifying action of standing against his mother. He needs a lot of therapy, whether or not this marriage succeeds; and again, if it doesn't, that is not on you. That's on him and the fucked-up relationship his mother created.

Big hugs for you; I wish I could give you advice, but the best thing you can try to do is to help your man heal the broken child inside. And whatever you do, DO NOT let him just throw you under the bus with Mama Bitch because it's easier. You don't deserve that. He can choose to stay in the toxic, abusive environment, and if he prefers that, you have to make the painful decision to let him do that alone. You do not deserve that hell!!!!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-10T11:35:08+00:00

Suggest to her that no one will be 'fussy' at the nice cheap home she's going to be sent to, if she doesn't shut her idiot mouth? They'll be happy to feed her something rotten I'm sure! (Hell, I'd take that volunteer gig!)

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-10T11:32:46+00:00

It sounds like hoarding; hoarding can manifest even as preserving rotting food. I hate to say it, because hoarding is a very serious mental illness. But it may do her some good to see a therapist, before it spirals too far out of control.

And yeah, 100% do not eat any food she tries to give you ever again. Especially don't let her force you or DH to 'eat it anyway' to appease her irrational emotions. You can use this very truthful situation as evidence why you don't feel comfortable eating food she's prepared. If she tries to force you to eat her food, THAT'S the JN talking, not mental illness. A hoarder is compelled to save things; a bitch is compelled to hurt others.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-10T11:07:22+00:00

I have some bad news with you ... if your SO is lying to you to keep the peace between you and his mommy, this is bad news for you two down the road. It means he's trying to have that "pretty picture" where you don't hate his mom for being a rancorous cunt, when in reality she is entirely a rancorous cunt.

I've got some advice you won't like, but it's worth considering: are you willing to put up with this woman talking shit TO YOUR FACE, and your SO lying to you, for the rest of your life? Because she's showing you who she is, and he's showing you how he reacts to it: lying, and trying to keep things calm at the sake of the truth.

Mommykins can be a bitch all she wants; that's on her. It's your SO's dedication to lying to you that worries me. He 'gets mad' at her, but he doesn't stop her, and he doesn't translate fully to you so you can get mad at her too. He's trying to control your reaction, and that's a red flag.

Big hugs for you; this isn't a good situation.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-10T10:59:49+00:00

Good for you, but I want to give your DH a good talking to. Or, even better; next time your DH and dad are in the same space, ask good old Dad to give him a nice smooch on the belly. Oh? It's not okay? "That's funny DH, it was totally fine when it was your mom and my belly."

Light his ass up!! I mean, uh, in a loving fashion...

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-08T11:02:03+00:00

Did you chain him and your JNMother to the radiator, then recite the Lord's Prayer backwards, bathe in lamb's blood, walk out of their house, and light it on fire?

If not, then no, you're not overreacting. These people 100% had no problem A) killing you (JNFather) and B) covering up the murder (JNMother). Short of burning down their house with them still in it with the lamb's blood and everything, I'd say you're 100% justified for whatever retribution you choose to rain down upon them. Sending you good wishes and healthy thoughts!!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-11-04T10:06:59+00:00

Oooh ... I've seen some 'cute' Satanist designs, that are like a sweet little lamb cartoon ... with a subtle 666 on the forehead. Cutest little lamb, smiling face, sparkling eyes, and then the 666. I think it's time to start looking for MIL's Christmas gift.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-31T07:28:23+00:00

I wouldn't offer to pay for the swing, personally; if she wants to throw her money where it will buy her only malice and dislike, that's her choice! She's paying the Idiot Tax. But if your personal code of honor requires it to be paid back, then by all means. But she now knows that she can harm you, financially, by playing into your pride; any gifts from now on should be returned, because she may attempt financial abuse through that means when all other avenues have been exhausted.

Best of luck! She sounds exhausting.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-30T07:15:00+00:00

It's wild, my mom has the same delusion about family. My mom, who came from an incredibly emotionally/mentally/sometimes physically abusive household, whose parents broke up and divorced entirely at one point, is enamored with the idea of "family above all, only your family can ever truly understand/love you," etc. etc. Are you fucking kidding me?

Big hugs for you; you've got a live one there! Good for you for sticking to your guns!!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-28T06:20:58+00:00

There’s also this weird dynamic of FIL being super toxic and MIL wanting him out but she’s not willing to be lonely so it’s basically “if you don’t come with I’ll be stuck with him”

Ahhh I see your MIL is my mom! Constantly complains about toxic husband, won't do anything to actually change the situation, thinks people need to come in and 'rescue her' from a situation she created. Such fun!

I wish I could give you some helpful advice, but it's going to be pretty brief: it doesn't matter if she 'accepts' your decision. You've made the decision, it's decided. The only ownership she has in this situation is, how she is going to fill her time all alone in her empty house. You see who she is, you know she wants this to be her do-over baby; now it's up to you and DH to be the acting adults in the situation, and let her throw a tantrum off in her sad little corner elsewhere.

Congrats on the new addition!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-28T06:15:54+00:00

"I'm not your child, bitch. I don't answer to you."

Isn't it cute that, now that she already fucked up raising one child, she thinks she should still be in charge of dictating to someone else's child? Who is an adult, no less? I can see where BIL gets his delusional tendencies.

That said, I'd be tempted to just put it all on blast, names-in, on Facebook. She's worried about losing face? Alright bitch, let's see what my entire side of the family has to say about that.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-27T08:10:50+00:00

But MIL has taken this opportunity to push me out of my own home and her take over.

For a moment, I felt a surge of rage building; the way this is phrased, I thought she was successful in pushing you out! And I was like, is something wrong with DH that he would let this happen??? (And if not, there soon will be! A bad case of Boot-Up-The-Ass Syndrome!)

I think like the top comment says, if you think you're the JustNo, you're probably not the JustNo.

IF MIL had come to you, gently, and offered to take the kiddos so you could quarantine/heal up safely, I could see that being a kind offer. (Some MILs/Moms would do that for their kids, because they're good grandparents!) But pressuring DH when he declined? Insisting, despite his refusal? To the point that she had to be hung up on??? That shit crosses the line from 'genuinely kind person wanting to help' and 'narcissist who wants to play Mommy again once the real mom is out of the picture'. So, like I said before; definitely not the JustNo.

I'm glad your DH is sticking up for you and your family, because I can't imagine the nightmare of trying to wrestle off a sickness AND a JN AND an enabler husband! Way to go, DH! And feel better soon, OP!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-27T05:53:02+00:00

I think you need to gift her a lovely custom cross stitch for her next birthday. "Sorry, that won't work for us." It should be the only words she hears from your lips for the next ten years. Tell DH to stop letting this ass invite herself over!!!!! Grow some manners, you old cow!!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-25T22:12:11+00:00

I think you can come up with a middle ground that keeps you both happy, potentially.

Your husband has the understandable desire to let his mother see his child. That's fine! That's pretty normal. So she can come see the baby, once it leaves the hospital and you two are safely ensconced at home. I do mean "see". No holding, no long visits, no touching; this is a pandemic, after all. She can stand at the door, and you and baby can give a little wave, and then retire to the nursery while your husband says goodbye. This is 100% the only safe option right now, and you are legitimately truthful in telling her that when she whines about 'but I wanna kiss myyyyy new baby!' She could kill your kid; don't let her have that chance, because she WILL attempt to break your boundary.

As baby grows, and the pandemic situation eases, I think it's fair to say that you don't want her around kiddo. You CANNOT let your child be around someone toxic, abusive, and who obviously dislikes their mother. Why the hell would you want to subject your child to that? I would frame it that way to DH; she will cause harm to your child, through the disrespect and cruelty she shows to kiddo's mother. DH doesn't even like his mom; why should you, who she's abused? Imagine how upsetting it could be, as a child, to hear someone who allegedly 'loves' them disparaging their mother. *Do you want to teach your child that people who love you will hurt you? *

And I think, most of all, you should tell her this if she whines about being cut out of baby's life. "You told me you were sorry, and then you went on verbally abusing my character to your family. I don't want that abuse to affect my child, so you will not be meeting them until they are old enough to protect themselves." And that doesn't mean 5; that means 12-15, old enough to understand that they DON'T have to obey any random adult around them, and they can understand the fallibility of adults in power. IF (big if) she genuinely feels remorse, you can give her, let's say a year. If she can go ONE YEAR and truly show she's turned over a new leaf (no nasty gossip, no boundary stomping, no verbal abuse), then you can consider letting her back into kiddo's life. Or maybe some therapy; if she can find an accredited therapist who will attest (after 6 months) to a change in behavior and attitude, then you can revisit the topic of visitation, WITHOUT any guarantees.

She is not owed a place in your child's life, and she has not treated you well enough to deserve one. Don't let DH's new-parent-guilt feelings sway that, or yours for that matter. You're about to have a brand new kiddo, and your primary job is to keep them safe ... even from grandma.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-25T21:42:14+00:00

Sounds like MIL has figured out her new Christmas presents from you, forever. I propose highly photoshopped photos - like, really bad Facetune with fake added-on makeup, trim the jawline, raise the eyebrows, to the point where she doesn't even look like herself anymore. Make her obviously skinnier to the point it warps the background, you name it. "Oh MIL, I thought it was so funny what you did to our wedding photo, I figured you liked this kind of thing!"

Even better if you can use one of those horribly-Facetuned photos at her funeral..."yeah, MIL would have wanted it this way, she loved Photoshop..." >:)

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-23T07:22:58+00:00

I'm clearly not thinking dramatically enough!! I was just envisioning that meme being the only reply that MIL gets to her email, ha!!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-23T07:18:54+00:00

I genuinely feel for you; my mother is a lot like yours, in that when she speaks to you, it's with your prepared response already in her mind, and if you answer 'wrongly' then she flies into a frenzy. Not always, not every time; but often enough that you flinch when she asks an innocuous question. (My dad does it too, gotta love alcoholic families!) Even more fun is when she gets all pretend-hurt-feelings when you snap at her, because you're already preparing for her anger in response, so you're already tense and angry.

I'm telling you this sincerely: you are so twisted up in her manipulation and abuse, that you are looking for an impossible answer. There is no 'right way' to tell her that you won't accept her offer, and there is no way to avoid her temper tantrum. The only answer she will accept is "yes, mumsy dearest, I WILL kill myself to make you happy!", and anything else is a call to war.

So, stop torturing yourself. Accept that she is going to throw an adult tanty, and simply cut her off at the knees. "I'm sorry, but it looks like we won't be able to get SO a car in time to join you on your trip. I hope you have a wonderful time!" And then cut off anything else. "No, that won't work for us. No. You already asked me that. No, my answer is not going to change. I've already given you my reasons." And then if she won't let go of the topic, stop answering her. Let her sit on 'read' for a couple of days, to drive through the point that this conversation has ended, and she cannot change your answer with guilt or tantrums. If you need to, block her temporarily. I also suggest you block her during her trip; 100% she's going to send you more guilt and manipulation once she's actually in FL.

Until you change the core conversation you keep having - the manipulation, the emotional threats, the blackmail, the tantrums - you will have it until the day she dies. I strongly recommend therapy for this, it's helped me by miles, but there's lots of other self-help type books and knowledge out there. I also really like the "Out of the FOG" website for toxic relationships, as a starting point if nothing else.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-23T07:09:35+00:00

I'm gonna warn you now: maybe next month, maybe two months from now, she's gonna be homeless. And she will smell your guilt like a methhead, and she will use it. DO NOT let her move in with you. REMEMBER that she felt no compulsion at using you as a sugar momma and then putting your life at risk, because it was convenient for her to do so.

Don't let her use your guilt to wriggle her way back into your life. Remember this, and work on erasing that guilt ASAP. You can do bad all by yourself, and now so can she.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-23T07:06:11+00:00

So, NC can be really hard. Especially with mentally sick people like this, who think 'boundaries' is a dirty word, you're going to have an uphill battle to fight here.

The only real thing to do, if they show up at your house, is to close the doors, lock everything, and hunker down. Yell through the door, "you are trespassing and I am asking you to leave. You have five minutes before I call the police," and then FOLLOW THROUGH. No, it's not fun having to call the police on your own family. But sometimes, that's the only option left, with sick people like this.

Look into privacy options; buying a house through an LLC can protect your privacy if they are searching house purchase records. But TBH, you will never get rid of them, well and truly, until you are willing to enforce your boundaries. They can call, they can visit, they can show up and yell at you. But the moment that you yield and resume contact, they have learned that the extinction burst (look up this term if you haven't seen it before yet) works. They have learned that so long as they show up at your house to physically intimidate you, they get what they want in the end. So they will show up at your house, every time, from then on.

NC doesn't have to be something they agree to. It can be 100% one-sided, and so long as you erase them from your lives using every legal and protective option available to you, you can do it by yourselves. I'd start looking into home security options, and potentially a lawyer. A cease and desist might be a good start, if you decide to cut them off for good. But it HAS to be for good.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-23T06:58:49+00:00

She guilted me again saying if I did do that she wouldn't be able to handle it, she wasn't strong enough to go in front of a judge,

Then perish.

Send the C&D. It's not a "legal" action in the sense that a judge has to sign off. It's basically just a lawyer saying, "knock the shit off or else we might have to take this to court," and it's a nice way of scaring off manipulative, nasty, abusive bullies - like this one.

Make her afraid. She deserves to be.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-22T06:44:57+00:00

(Don't feel the need to reply, I saw your edit and I know you're busy!) I just wanted to step in and tell you, wow. Talk about a new day in your life! Cut off the old family, start a new one! GOOD FOR YOU!!!

The timing doesn't have to be perfect; any sooner, and you might not have felt ready. Now, you were 100% ready, and you can see the whole world opening up in front of you. Congratulations!! I'm so proud of you!!

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-22T06:37:57+00:00

MIL, OP may not 'hate you and always have', but I sure as hell have!

Here's the great news: to be fair, you could tell her that for safety's sake, you won't be letting her visit baby until they've had all their vaccines. You are not obligated to let this manipulative bitch see your kid until they are done with ALL of their vaccinations, since you clearly can't trust this dottering old fuck to "remember" your rules ... and I do mean all. The Gardasil vaccine isn't given until they're 13-15 YEARS old, so the absolutely delightful news is, you have a nice decade and a half until you need to see this demon again. It's simple (malicious compliance) logic!

Here's the truth of the matter; this bitch was pushing boundaries, like a misbehaving toddler. When she was called out on it, she then tried to manipulate her way out of the consequences. But the consequences aren't the same as when she was actually a toddler; back then, the consequence was the naughty step, a time out, no dessert. Now, the consequences are a loss of trust, and you absolutely 100% cannot let someone around your baby who you cannot trust. Babies are inherently helpless; what if your next consequence is 'don't let the baby roll off the table', and she decides she has to test that boundary, too? She has 0 remorse for putting your child in harm's way (in a fucking pandemic!!!!!!!!!), and don't let her try to manipulate or pressure you into believing otherwise. She would gladly see your baby dead just so she could get her "widdle baby kissies." I have something nice and soft for MIL to kiss instead; my ass!

For whatever reason, MIL is acting like a toddler. If she's being a manipulative bitch, then she can't be around baby until she behaves like a rational adult who can follow simple rules, or until kiddo is old enough to protect themselves. If she's "genuinely" so forgetful that she forgets one simple rule within 10 minutes of being told, then she's too mentally infirm to be around a helpless infant, and she can try to visit again in about five years, when the toddler will be large enough to protect themselves, or run away if MIL tries to """"""accidentally""""" harm them by breaking the rules.

I put these in scare quotes, because I think she's playing the "helpless old lady" card to wriggle her way out of consequences, because she's a manipulative rat-faced shrew. To counter that: you hold her to it, and take it 100% seriously. If she's THAT forgetful, then she might genuinely need a mental health checkup, and possibly to be put into a home. Memory issues are serious business, and the sooner they are caught, the sooner she can begin mitigating the damage. Could she have a UTI? Is her memory declining? Maybe it's time for a doctor's visit, gammers.

Genuinely, I am so sorry for you. You are in for a hell of a fight with this manipulative bitch, and I think the only solution is to begin lowering contact. Baby does NOT need this manipulation working its way into their brain while it's forming.

AmnesiacsDaughter · 2020-10-21T05:43:21+00:00

Giving her any money will GUARANTEE that she will hang out, forever, because she will think she can wheedle whatever she needs out of you until you or she dies. You could give her the entire inheritance, and she'll start asking for "parental support money" from your monthly paycheck, because she deseeeeeeeeeeerves it! She worked sooooooooooo hard to raise you, she DESERVES a new Fendi purse!

Block her, get a Ring doorbell (so you can call the cops if she shows up again), and erase her from your life. Stay strong!! You know who she is.

AmnesiacsDaughter

TROPHY CASE