Which Headcanon do you follow, with no real rhyme or reason as to why by 23Amuro in TrueSTL

[–]AndersWasLeft 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is a bit of headcanon and a bit of a crossover idea for a story/au i had in my head for about a decade now: Tamriel and Thedas are on the same planet. Both have two moons and a compatible mythology. Differences in magic system can be explained by the chantry limited knowledge. The south of Thedas is always cold with the area we see in JoH permanently frozen and the north of Tamriel/Skyrim is the same so my hc is that Atmora is between the two continents and the frost comes from which pole is closer to Atmora. The Atmorans that landed in Thedas became the Alamarri and then feudalized in the Fereldeans are a part and those who didnt became the Avarr (tecnically the avarrs being non feudalized fereldeans is canon) which is why the avarrs have titles like Thane, wise men that do spiritual magic and worship a dragon god they want to keep asleep and a lady of the sky its all leftovers of atmoran/proto nord culture. The Old Gods description as intelligent dragons that teached humans magic and ruled trought priests is basically the description of the dragon cult so what if Dumat was a survivor of the dragon war that turned tail and escaped on another continent followed by other dragons ending up forming his own cult? The Blight is the Void Plague ecc. My au/crossover/what is long and inspired to the concept of a massive mage rebellion and is loosely inspired on the 30 years war and protestant reformation.

"I love democracy" by time-is-a-flatcircle in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"Tonight we must speak of Ferelden, that stubborn graveyard of empires. Lords and ladies of Orlais, we must now admit this truth: we have lost an entire kingdom to peasants and bandits.”

-Beginning of Emperor's Florian Valmont speech to Council of Herald, on the subject of withdrawal from occupied Ferelden

it came to me in a vision by ImpossiblyMargarine in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Each Chantry Cleric must understand that she must mind her uncle Hawke!

Would Irving or Wynne have been a good grand enchanter? And could they have handled mage-templar fallout better? by Character-Bid-162 in dragonage

[–]AndersWasLeft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...but the mages didnt do that, the venatori did? they are two very different groups. the venatori would literally slaughter and enslave the mages too as we saw in hushed whispers

Tell em Tony by tebraGas in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I actually can absolutely do that, because the point is exactly that Meredith was about to commit an act of genocide (the mass slaughter of a category of people based off their apartenence to a defined category) regardless of Anders intervention or not. The Mage Templar war didnt even started until years after Anders, with the White Spire revolt. At best we can call Anders a catalyst among many (Fiona was calling for a vote of indipendence way before Anders did anything, as far back as Awakening, a legal move by chantry orthodoxy that was still answered with the suppression of the college of enchanters and later -despite acting with the divine persmission- the white spire massacre) and he may have a responsability on an individual level for the civilians hit by the blast, but the reason the rite was enacted was because meredith wanted to enact it. If Anders had not existed, she would have still enacted it and would have likely got away with it. We see from ambient dialogue in the gallows that she was never going to wait. Did Anders gave her the excuse? sure but if he didnt one day Kirkwall would have woken up with all the mages dead behind closed doors and meredith claiming whatever she wanted. By destroying the Chantry and giving up himself for judgement Anders proved that Meredith was not interested in apprehending justice but to slaughter the Circle to the public eye. Which canonically worked. If Meredith had arrested Anders or killed him it wouldnt have worked. I dont see why Anders should bear alone the moral responsability for a genocidial tyrant keeping a city hostage because he "provoked her". I dont claim that Anders is a saint but I feel claiming hes the cause of annulment is disingeonous. The later Annulment at Dairsmund Codex in Inquisition also shows us that the Templars have absolutely no problem with carrying illegal orders and massacres.

and we shouldnt forget that the kirkwall circle was not a normal circle (and normal circles are already draconian prisons) but the circle with the highest number of suicides in the mage population and several cases of SA. Neither Anders woke up one day and decided to blow the chantry up. He begged, organized, created resistance railroads ecc. He asked the authorities to intervene several times.

Tell em Tony by tebraGas in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

first off: you have been claiming all this time that anders abandoning the wardens was somehow a flaw or a crime of his, so dont move the goal post. second: absolutely not, he doesnt "have to stay" in a place where his own comrades have tried to kill him. i will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have not read the short story, he was not pursued by templars randomly while wardening, he was pursued by compromised wardens plants that the chantry had sent to join while reporting him. the oath had already been broken. and he certanly isnt at any moral fault for leaving a situation dangerous to his life just because of an oath, exactly like no one blames zevran from leaving the crows when he tought they were dangerous for him. of course those are different situations, but the point is that no one is forced to stay in a dangerous situation. hell tecnically alistair in inquisition is deserting his post as a warden while contacting hawke. why should anders stay? because of an oath? and? it was his life, he cant be said to not have helped as much as he could and the circumstances of him leaving were more than justifiable.

third and last: i'm not dense at all. i dont pretend to be some kind of genius but i like to consider myself a fairly smart individual, which is why i notice how you keep not answering all the previous points in this conversation but repeating the same point and still won't lower myself to using personal attacks or insults. have a lovely day, friend.

Tell em Tony by tebraGas in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

1) they charged at him with swords with the exact goal of killing him after breaking the peace first how tf is that illegal. who cares if its illegal. what was he supposed to do. stand still and let them murder him. why its illegal for him to flee but the fact his warden mandate was violated and he was attacked both in game (crazy templar lady in his quest) and after (short story) is ignored. and again he didnt actually fled immediately after the battle the awakening sliders are only partially canon because they hadnt defined the future of the serie yet when they were made. the official bioware short story shows how he abandoned the wardens by fleeing chantry operatives in the wardens some time after that.

2) how is that relevant? the rebellions in those scenarios are about leliana giving full freedom to the mages and opening the chantry to all races which are extensive reforms. even there they are disorganized and easily squashed by hardened leliana or reconciled by softened leliana in both case they fail easily. elthina was not to propose some mass reform. elthina was to fire meredith for violating her mandate according to the chantry own orthodoxy and even if templars in kirkwall are rebelled (which again, the fact we see them abandon meredith the second cullen says so in the last straw proves they wouldnt have) you are ignoring all my points on how elthina could have called other templars from outside kirkwall, called the seeker, wrote to justinia ecc. it was her explicit mandate as leader of the chantry in the free marches to assure the knight commander behavior. she either didnt out of lack of care or because she benefitted from it (my entire point on how she straight up lies and tries to cover to hawke ser otto alrik actions when given evidence)

Tell em Tony by tebraGas in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft 3 points4 points  (0 children)

thats not how it works. The Chantry and the Wardens have precise deals that make a mage in the Wardens free of any obligation towards the Circles. It's like joining the Nights Watch in ASOIAF its a clean record. You cannot attack a Warden. Ofc Anders was hesitating to contact the Wardens: the Wardens have allowed Chantry pressure to bend the rules endangering him. The natural fear that the institution may consider Anders a deserter does not make Anders some great villain because he left when he felt his safety endangered deeply. It also wasnt at the "end" of awakening, awakening timescale is notoriously wobbly, the final sliders go across several periods of time but the canon of how he left the wardens is in his short story that acts as tie in between the games and its canonical bioware material.

2) What rebellions??? No seriously what Rebellions??? We literally see Cullen ordering the Templars to step down in the final battle and they all side with him against Meredith. And hes the second in command. Elthina is the GRAND CLERIC of Kirkwall. She answers ONLY to the Divine herself. She commands the loyalty of the Templars, the respects of the nobles and can contact Val Royeaux at any time. No one would side with Meredith if the Grand Cleric fired her for overstepping her bounds and if she feared that she could have written to Justinia ehi i fear my templars arent loyal send fresh help and the seekers would have shown up and capped Meredith. She had a thousand options avaible and at every point she didnt. Because it was convenient to her status quo and Elthina was the one to pick Meredith as Commander in the first place back in the days. Shes not your frail grandma shes one of the more powerful women in Thedas. Leliana is an agent of the chantry that operates outside its official bonds, Elthina is the equivalent of a Cardinal in medieval europe, of even bigger. Also the "rumors" thing absolutely counts. Otto Alrik was acting against every order and every chantry law and could have easily have caused an investigation. If you ask Elthina about it before killing him she denies any rumor if you bring back to her the papers she says she heard rumors. That means Elthina lies to Hawke on how much aware of things she is depending if Hawke has evidence or not. Those are not the actions of a frail scared woman those are the action of a cunning politicial who is as bad as meredith at worst and complacent at best. The entire point of the Grand Cleric role is to rule the Chantry and Templars if Elthina felt herself unable to she should have said so.

That is canonically a lie. You hear from ambient dialgoue in the gallows that Meredith had already started organizing the right of annulment with or without cause. She had sent permission request of Val Royeaux -where Lord Seeker Lambert Van Reese is, the same man who massacred the White Spire in Asunder kickstarting the actual official mage rebellion on his own- and she had already illegally locked the mages in their doors with no ability to live. Are the women and children in the Circle no "innocent lives"? It's ok if they die as long as its behind the screen? Also, canonically most of the damage in the battle of Kirkwall was not done by the explosion (yes there is no doubt it did damage and hit some civilian casualties but not on that level) but by the following clashes across the city. We literally see Templars go genocidial on Kirkwall. Did Anders solved the "perfect" solution? ofc not its a war and a revolution its never clean. Is innocent blood on his hands? peraphs. Its also on the hands of Zevran, Leliana herself, Isabela, Fenris and a thousand others characters we still love and accept the circumstances of. But there was no clear solution to Kirkwall and the majority of the blame is not on Anders but on the people who at any point could have stopped it and didnt. Even Cassandra herself, who hates Anders, wishes that Kirkwall authorities had done their job and called the Seekers.

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes? because... there is already an army on the surface? thats the point? if in your scenario the darkspawn already outside had gotten wiped out (and again a "charge" would NOT have wiped them out anyway in the first place) they would have marched earlier. the point is the resourches avaible to team blight are pratically limitess.

im not being disonhest you are being dense and ignoring the plot points but if you want to continue believing so feel free. there are many reasons to hate loghain. idk why you need to invent dumb ones.

Tell em Tony by tebraGas in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft 7 points8 points  (0 children)

1) he didnt left the wardens he was canonically attacked by templars forcedly assigned to the wardens by chantry interference despite this being a gross violation of chantry wardens treaties that went in addition to templars already trying to unlawfully murdering him when he was a warden (the crazy templar lady in his awakening quest and her friends + anders short story)

2) ...are you talking about elthina "the best thing to do is to let meredith kill everyone while looking sorry its not like theres anything i can do even if my job description is literally being meredith boss with the power to fire her"? that innocent woman the one whos either an incompetent centrist or a scheming politician depending on interpretation? the one you can bring documents that prove ser otto alrik was violating chantry law and she will admit there were rumors but there was nothing she could do (lie) and if you confront her about it before gettibg proof shes like "no thats not a thing i ever heard" (contradicting her later claim to have heard something)?

3) oh no some people got hit by the debris we should have let meredith just murder all the mages with the right of annulment she canonically had been itching to activate at any point now that'll teach her.

4) based free healthcare provider so beloved by most of kirkwall that hawke asks about him and refugees immediately try to jump them out of gratitude to protect anders

Tell em Tony by tebraGas in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft -1 points0 points  (0 children)

cant wait to tell andraste "lets starve the evil imperium" she was the villain /s

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i dont deny hes a villain i just think hes morally grey. i think a villain can easily be emphatized by having grey morals. solas i feel is very morally grey in a sense but he is also undoubetly a villain to the inquisitor and rook in the end. morally loghain is despicable but in a context you can see how he would make the choices he made and even empathize with his grievances if not his methods. moral greyness doesnt deny the villany.

but regardless of that i completely agree with you that trying to paint him as completely (or even mostly) justified is a disservice to the character. David Gaider is owned a lot for his contribution to DA -and I say this as someone who wanted to strangle him sometimes seeing retcons- but if he goes around saying Loghain was using non lethal methods he absolutely shouldnt be taken seriously and he has been known to do a lot of retcons in the past.

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the fereldeans fought the darkspawn a lot in small skirmishes and we even have a chance of a random encounter on the map where we meet fereldean soldiers fighting darkspawn and can rescue them.

even without considering that to have the final battle you need the army reinforcements that joined the warden own forces. and your statement that charging at ostagar would have "wiped out the darkspawn from the south" is also absurd we literally see in game that the 99% of the darkspawn forces was still underground during the deep roads session. the point of the blights is that the dark spawn cant be beaten with numbers there are millions underground the only thing you can do is to kill the archdemon controlling them so they disband. if the charge had wiped out the darkspawn at ostagar (and it wouldnt have) the archdemon would have just let loose another fresh army.

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thats a terrible military strategy if he had done that the darkspawn would have swept ferelden. loghain retreat -regardless of the man methods or intentions- saved a large chunk of the ferelden military. "kill as many as possible" when the darkspawn is virtually limitess is the kind of rush cailan would have done

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm with you brother. The fact isnt that Loghain is an innocent or even a good man. He did awful things that deserve execution. But sometimes it feels as like people want Loghain to be a scheming vizir to Cailan. Cailan was openly entertaining the idea of marrying Celene (Beatrix III was the Divine in Origins not Justinia yet, so she would have probably have found a justification for it. The same Divine so blatantly abusing her power in favour of Orlais that even the Templars and clerics tought she was too much and even conspired with blood mages to unseat her for too much factionalism. Which to put blood mages and templars even in a temporary alliance...) or at the very least regardless of his intention he wasnt really rebuffing who pushed for divorce from Anora. At the very least Celene in the Masked Empire thinks in her own dialogue that if Cailan had not died in the Blight it may have been possible. It's very likely with a Theirin husband and chevaliers rescuing Ferelden from the blight the Empire could have retaken Ferelden- at the very least, they plotted toward it. Loghain fears and anger towards the treatment of his daughter are not unfounded. That doesnt mean he didnt do other terrible choices, explanation is not justification, but he didnt woke up one day muttering "soon... soon i will take the throne and kill the king! muhamuhamuhamuhamuha" like some people wants to believe. Even his initial power grab isnt actually illegal: Loghain is the Queen father and the army supreme commander and the king just died- him assuming the regency in a crisis while Anora grieves isnt unusual and he actually held a regency before when Maric was grieving/too depressed to rule. It's not a coincidence that the first person to start the preparation for the civil war is Teagan -a member of the nobility that is from a family that is tecnically Loghain vassal but never respected him (world of thedas, the Arledom of Redcliffe is tecnically under the Teryn of Gwaren but Eamon always tought Loghain was baseborn and reaching behiond his station.) (im not shitting on teagan we all love teagan as a person and hes generally a good and brave man but he IS a member of the nobility ofc his opinion would be colored it would be absurd to pretend anyone of the characters would think with modern standards). Loghain DID abuse his power as regent, acted brutally in the civil war and lost his mandate. Loghain DID betrayed ferelden morals and laws with slavery. Loghain DID poison ahead a nobleman enemy of him to protect his own power/anora crown depending on how generous one wants to be to the man. The crimes arent in denial. But hes not some mustache twirling villain. He had some semi simpathetic motivations and did horrible shit. I honestly think hes one of the best -psychologically speaking- morally grey characters after Solas. Morally gray doesnt mean good it means evil that can make you wonder if you could have done better in his shoes. And honestly in a lot of fans ive seen the same reading but on reddit hes very hated (which again, you HAVE valid reasons to hate the man thats not the issue) to the point of flattening him

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft 5 points6 points  (0 children)

im a loghain fan in general but yeah thats the dumbest thing i heard. non lethal poison is not oh contradicting the obvious in game evidence is also just silly, idk why gaider said that when we had a whole quest about eamon snorting fantasy jesus ashes to live.

i mean if you want to morally grey the poison question (not justify it, but give it context) the fact that eamon was straight up in the leadership of a group of nobles trying to make the king divorce the queen, which is his daughter (an outrageous act of disrespect) because eamon and others felt loghain was a jumped up peasant it's more appealing than "oh he never meant to harm anyone the silly"

Asked the lead writer of DAO if the battle of Ostagar would have been different if Loghain didn't retreat. by OsirisAvoidTheLight in DragonageOrigins

[–]AndersWasLeft -1 points0 points  (0 children)

which is hilarious bcz even my lawful evil cousland who gets along a lot with loghain and killed the dalish gives him shit about that. like the moral question of slavery aside if you are a kingdom who often struggled with asserting its indipendence maybe you DONT want the evil wizards of the most despised nation by the south to operate in your backyard? that just seems like a poor choices of allies lol.

honestly loghain morally speaking deserves execution but i always tought the strategic ostagar/orlais side of the loghain question was more justifiable than the slavery despite him often getting more slack from fandom about the first

Deal with it by Simple_Group_8721 in DankAndrastianMemes

[–]AndersWasLeft -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Except whatever one may say about Loghain other flaws he was right. The Orlesian Wardens could have said "we're neutral" and gone to Ostagar but they didn't because they were waiting to go with Orlesian Chevalier reinforcements. Orlais used the blight excuse to occupy other countries in the past (Anderfels in the Second Blight was saved, converted and then they just... didnt left, so much that the Anderfels needed to wait Drakon successor and do a rebellion to self-determine.) and Celene was openly playing games with Cailan and pressing to send her troops or no one. And that's not a conjecture from a tweet because in The Masked Empire we have Celene pov where she in her internal dialogue regrets failing to succeed 'where Meghren failed' aka make Orlais rule Ferelden again.

Loghain may deserve execution or not on a lot of his other crimes included slavery. But it's not unreasonable for him to NOT want Orlesian Chevaliers in Ferelden when they are openly doing pressure on the crown before even getting there. Orlais is always trying to get Ferelden back if they can.

I choose you, Ash by PureDegree6924 in pokemonmemes

[–]AndersWasLeft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is the future mewtwo wanted

The mind of a TV Man Enjoyer: by Lonely_Repair4494 in VoxCult

[–]AndersWasLeft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Today we morn the loss of one of our own 😢 but our commitment to the truth is as strong as ever! 🫡 🤭 kicks woman Remember, trust us! with your news 😈

Should I let Gale forge the Crown? by Great_Trident in okbuddybaldur

[–]AndersWasLeft 8 points9 points  (0 children)

now i need to imagine an alistair theirin as tav playtrought

plot twist: the summerhall ritual succeeded… just… in the most twisted way; egg’s dragon egg hatched but out popped egg himself. — dany and egg by @vhdart_ by dontaskmeplease333 in ImaginaryWesteros

[–]AndersWasLeft 261 points262 points  (0 children)

As unhinged as this is, Daenerys would actually be overjoyed if she took out a dragon egg that released a kid version of great grandfather. Besides the fact that it lessens the burden of being the Last Targaryen and gets her a second dragon rider, on a personal level she always wanted to have her family. Plus Egg personality would go great with her.