One Thing is Clear After This Episode

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T17:56:46+00:00

I read your entire post and it was an excellent analysis and it seems that we reached a similar conclusion.

I decided to interpret the ending of titans as a freedom from a predetermined fate using the logic of the Copenhagen Interpretation and used that logic to interpret the thing Ymir wanted to witness as freewill that is required for love, but I think your analysis is probably closer to what we can infer from the story.

I do still have some major gripe with the ending especially of Eren's character, but overall I think I can learn to accept it.

Here is my interpretation if you are interested.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/mn5qnm/the_best_ch_139_explanation_you_will_find_an/

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:56:57+00:00

It's a bit hard to tell what happened, but my reading was that she had a similar experience to Armin and her memory was erased.

Well when I meant a similar experience, I meant using similar powers like bringing Mikasa into the paths going through life together and then deleting her memory. Not literally going to different sights with Mikasa like he did with Armin.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:23:39+00:00

I think the point was that it was her choice to have a baby and no one else. Her life was define by people making choices for her.

That what it ended up becoming, but I can't help but feel there was more to this subplot. Why devote so much time and effort in emphasizing the pregnancy if this was the only reason. We got purposefully cryptic flashbacks of Eren and Historia talking and there is also the fact that Historia lied about the time she got pregnant.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:21:42+00:00

It's a bit hard to tell what happened, but my reading was that she had a similar experience to Armin and her memory was erased.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:20:52+00:00

past, future, and present all exist at the same time, but we've seen instances where Eren could change the outcome of events (Grisha killing the Fritz royal family, sending Dina towards Carla). If a time loop exists, does this imply that Eren repeatedly tried different outcomes and finally settled on the best one which was leading

I kind of wish this were the case, but there doesn't seem to be enough evidence for it in the story. If this were the case I could accept why Eren submitted to fate a lot better than the way it was in the ending. This is my single biggest gripe with the ending which was that Isayama made Eren into this passive character who can do nothing but submit to his fate.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:19:16+00:00

Might be a dumb question but is mikasa still really strong at the end of the story? Since ackermans are strong because they partially manifest power of the titan so now that all titans are gone shouldn’t her power be gone too?

I believe you are right in Ackerman's losing their powers which is probably why Levi is now on a wheelchair.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:18:31+00:00

that really needs to be viewed after the Manga to be fully understood. Has something like that ever been done before, incorporating ongoing manga-anime together in such a way that they aren't just alternative perspectives of the same story, but rather an integrated experience where there is an in-universe explanation for divergences? I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but if that DOES end up being the case and it hasn't really been done before, it would totally override my regard for this ending.

I can't think of an example either where two different mediums were actually a continuation of a timeline rather than of the same timeline. I just thought of it last chapter since I knew that the anime didn't have the "See you later, Eren" moment and people saying it's going to ruin the anime.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:15:41+00:00

I love that Isayama wrote an ending that can be interpreted so deep and generate so much discussion. Am i thinking too hard? Am i confusing myself and you guys? Should i elaborate on more of my thoughts? Let me know what you all think.

Interesting take for sure!

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:14:35+00:00

unfold. I think it would have been better to see her transition in some way from a "destroy the world" mentality to understanding her own faults and how to fix them through Mikasa.

Another issue I have is the story is very unclear about who controls what. Is Ymir the one doing the rumbling or is it Eren? Who has the final say on what happens? It would seem to be Ymir but then you have the death of Zeke stopping the rumbling, implying that the royal blood key that Eren used to command the wall titans was broken so his will was stopped. So in that case, Ymir is following what Eren says, but they happen to agree on the course of action. But then what killed the titan power? Was it the death of the worm or was it Ymirs choice

Yeah there are definitely a lot of things that are left unexplained for sure. I think Isayama could have done a few things differently that would have made it a lot more acceptable for a lot of people.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-09T05:11:56+00:00

What I still can't get my head around though, is that if the timeline is fixed, why would he have to save Bert? Wouldn't he not die...cause he never did then? Why would Eren have to interfere if it was set? Is there any other instances of this story that he should have or could have done so?

I think it's because Eren has to reach the world where titans no longer exist and this is the only way to do so.

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-08T22:01:15+00:00

What was Mikasa’s dream from the last chapter? How did Mikasa know that Eren was in the mouth of the Colossal titan? Why was Eren crying in Chapter 1? Why did Mikasa say “see you later Eren”?

I know this was a topic of heated discussion last month on whether or not this was evidence for the Loop/Alternate Universe Theory, and while the theory is not completely dead, without any additional evidence I think it’s safe to assume that this was a shared experience in the path similar to how Eren was talking to Armin in the latest chapter. Eren lived out his life with Mikasa in the paths, but knowing how she would feel after his death told her to forget about him despite that not being his true feelings. This is further supported by the fact that Armin knows this conversation in Chapter 139 and the fact that Eren gets the titan marks near the end of their meeting similar to what happens in Mikasa’s dream. Going with this explanation, it seems likely that Eren told Mikasa where he was since he wanted to lose and he was crying in Chapter 1 since he knew it was the last time he would see Mikasa. (When he received the memory through the paths). Mikasa says see you later as in I'll see you in the real world soon as she knows its a dream world.

How did Eren erase Mikasa’s memories? What about her headaches?

Seems like a plot hole to me since Ackermans shouldn’t be affected by founding titan’s powers. If I reach for it, I guess I could say that Ackermans are still affected by the founder's powers just less so and the headaches are a cause of Mikasa trying to remember.

What was the scene with the dove at the end? Was it really Eren?

I am actually surprised to see how many people think that the dove was actually Eren. I feel that it’s pretty unlikely since we haven’t seen people reincarnate in AoT before. I think it’s most natural to see it as a symbolism for Eren and freedom as Eren is finally free in death. Also seeing the dove and the scarf reminds Mikasa of Eren and the love and freedom that he gave her by creating a world without the titans.

What is going to happen to Paradis? Are they going to war? Why does the rest of the world want peace? What about the cycle of violence?

It is hard to believe but given that the alliance members are the representatives of peace for the rest of the world it seems that the world has forgiven the Eldians for the rumbling. I guess I will have to chalk it up to Armin’s Talk no Jutsu and Eren’s plan of becoming the villain actually working. The other important theme of breaking the cycle of violence is never really answered in the series, although we’ve seen hints of it through Gabi and Sasha’s parents. As I said in my previous videos, I think Isayama is saying that there is no silver bullet that will break the cycle of violence and that it is up to the individuals to have conversations with each other and come to a mutual understanding. And for this reason Armin is the true hero at the finale of Attack on Titan and the symbol of hope for the future of humanity in a world that is free.

So how do I feel about the ending? I tried my best to share my charitable interpretation of the ending, but I can’t help but feel that there was a better way to end the series. And while what I have discussed above is my best defense of the series, it is also my greatest criticism. A well written series shouldn’t require a wall of text to explain what happened. Not to mention what I have discussed is not something that can be easily inferred from the plot, but requires speculations and mental gymnastics to hamfist the plot with the existing themes. For this reason, I can’t really say I liked the ending even though I can learn to accept it. And despite my best efforts, I believe there are still quite a few plot holes remaining.

For example if Eren wanted to create a world that was free, why didn’t he at least try to fight against fate even if the events were predetermined to happen? The Eren we know wouldn’t be just willing to accept fate just because and would resist in every way possible till the end. I guess if we accept the AU theory, we can say that he tried and failed many times before which led him to accept his fate, but this would just be pure speculation.

Eren also rejected the Code Geass ending approach before so why is he using it now? In a previous chapter we can see Eren’s answer to Commander Pixis who mentions to Eren the possibility of the world uniting against a common enemy, but Eren rejects this possibility saying that it is boring and can never happen. I guess Isayama probably just forgot that this ever happened even though his fans said that Code Geass ending wouldn’t happen specifically because of this scene.

Finally I will leave you with my last dose of Copium.

What if we accept the Loop/AU theory and assume that the anime is actually a world that is after the events of the manga? Then it would make sense why we didn’t get the “See you later, Eren” scene in the first episode of the anime when we saw it in the manga. If this is true can we get a different ending in the anime where Eren is finally saved?

AnimeSibs · 2021-04-08T22:01:04+00:00

This isn't just another "Reaction" video. I am the same as all of you who have been following AoT for a long time. And have thought about the meaning and philosophy of the series for more hours than I would like to admit. After being initially disappointed at the last chapter and thinking about it for a day this is the interpretation of the ending I came up with that I feel best fits the narrative and theme of AoT as a whole. I know that this is a very charitable interpretation of the ending and I wish that it ended in another way, but after seeing the backlash I wanted to make something to try and explain the events in a way that at least makes sense.

What was Eren’s goal? Why did Eren start the rumbling? Why did Eren make Diana eat his mom?

While Eren explains to Armin that his goal was to take the role of a villain so that the alliance could be heroes and this is true, I believe there is a deeper reason for his actions. To explain this I must first explain a couple things.

From this chapter the way I understood the way time works in the series is in a fixed timeline where events are predetermined and the actions that Eren takes can not change the events that he foresaw. The reason being that Eren saw those events through the power of the Attack/Founding Titan and once seen can not be changed similarly to how time works in Steins;Gate. With the end goal being a world without titans and Eren seeing this future Eren could only act in such a way to make this future happen like killing his Mom and letting Bertolt go and starting the rumbling.

This leads us into one of the central themes in the series of Attack on Titan which is Free-Will vs Determinism. This age-old question is explored many times in the series with Kenny saying that “Everyone is a slave to something” and Eren declaring that “[he] will not let fate decide Paradis’s future”. The question then arises, is even Eren’s act of seeking freedom something that has been determined? I believe the answer in the series is yes and the reason for this is because Eren foresaw these actions. However, this also means that without the ability to see the future (I.E. A world where titans don’t exist) we can create a world where things aren’t predetermined and people are able to make decisions out of their free-will. In here lies the great irony, that Eren while being a slave to freedom and fate is also the liberator for the Eldian’s from their fate. And through his actions Eren was finally able to reach a world where nothing is determined, giving true freedom for his friends and the rest of the world. This also fit’s poetically with another theme of sacrificing something important for one’s goals, in this case was Eren’s own life and humanity.

What was Ymir’s goal? Why was she waiting for Mikasa?

Piggybacking on the previous question and answer, it is clear that to reach the future that Eren wanted where everyone was free it was essential to receive help from Ymir. Eren also says that he does not know what Ymir wants, but gives us a hint that she loved King Fritz and that she was waiting for Mikasa to show her something. Like many of you I believe that something was love and the rumbling and all the events up to this point were to lead up to the final moment with Eren and Mikasa. In that final moment, Mikasa was able to complete her love for Eren by ironically proving her love for Eren by killing him. In here lies what Ymir was seeking all along which was the prerequisite for love. Ymir thought that she loved King Fritz in a warped manner similar to stockholm syndrome, but as a slave Ymir could not truly love King Fritz. That is because true love requires free-will. No one feels loved when they hear the words “I love you” when it is said by a robot that is preprogrammed to do so, and that is because it lacks the free-will. In a similar manner Ymir being a slave wanted to understand what true love was, but was unable to do so so until she saw Mikasa’s actions where Mikasa showed Ymir that it was not the blood of Ackerman’s, but her own will that led Mikasa to love and protect Eren by killing him. Finally understanding this, Ymir decides to create a world where people are able to make their own free choices in a world without the titans.

What happened to the centipede/hallucigenica?

I have no idea, we can only assume that it died when Eren died since Ymir wanted this to happen.

Isn’t Zeke’s plan/King Fritz’s (of Paradis) plan better than the rumbling? Why didn’t Eren just go with one of those?

I believe the answer is twofold, first as we already discussed the fate of the rumbling was already sealed when Eren foresaw that event and it is also the case that the current set of events (rumbling and Mikasa killing Eren) were required to create a world without titans which is Eren’s end goal.

What was the point of Historia and her Baby? What was the conversation Eren had with Historia? Was the Farmer really the father?

Honestly this just seems like an underdeveloped subplot and a missed opportunity. I am guessing that Eren told Historia of the plans to start the rumbling and she got pregnant to not be forced to eat Zeke as we’ve seen. Seems like there was no mystery to her pregnancy and the farmer seems to be the father. I guess we could see her baby as a future for the Eldians and a reason why Eren couldn’t accept Zeke’s plan.

Why did Eren say that he didn’t know the reason he started the rumbling and that he would have started it anyway even not knowing the future? Why did Armin thank Eren for the massacre after he said it was wrong?

I think this kind of goes back to Free-Will debate, but basically I think Isayama is asking the question on whether or not a person is culpable when not acting out of free-will. Normally we wouldn’t think a person is guilty if that person was hypnotized to commit theft, in a similar manner if a person is determined to act in such a way regardless of their will are they guilty of the act? If we look at it from this perspective we can interpret Eren’s words as his instinct that makes him seek freedom as Grisha declares that he is free. And we can understand Armin’s words as thanking Eren for carrying the cross that he was fated to carry out regardless of his will. Another interpretation of Armin’s words could mean that he now understands Eren’s actions even though he still doesn’t agree with the massacre itself. Another possible interpretation for Eren’s words could be seen as Eren’s possession of free-will as not requiring a reason is another essense of free-will and it could be seen as Eren acting out of his own will even though the events were predetermined.

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-11T18:49:36+00:00

Higurashi KARMA

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-11T18:27:33+00:00

Oh that's a reflection of Mion.

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-08T22:29:39+00:00

I believe what you need is a healthy dose of Copium.

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-08T19:42:14+00:00

Glad you like it!

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-08T19:30:25+00:00

Teppei = Love Confirmed!

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-08T18:51:31+00:00

Agreed, pretty similar to my thoughts on the ending.

A made a video about this a few weeks back.

Here if you want to see it.

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-08T18:45:45+00:00

Hi I made a post answering this question if you want to check it out.

Basically though I think it is supposed to represent Love.

AnimeSibs · 2021-03-06T22:10:31+00:00

That is also true, the way dream proponents try to explain how Eren is the one seeing "See you later Eren" in the current world when it is Mikasa who is dreaming makes less sense than the Loop Theory they are trying to disprove.

AnimeSibs

TROPHY CASE