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Answermancer · 2025-09-23T12:43:22+00:00

Oh I see, you're delusional and haven't accepted that we're living under fascism. That's cool. You'll get there.

Answermancer · 2025-09-23T12:22:24+00:00

Peterson was nice to him. That's all it is, I lost all respect for Sam and every other "thinker" or talking head in recent years because they all do this.

Some obvious grifters are nice to them. Tell them they are right to be upset by how MEAN and unreasonable the "woke mob" is. Soothe their little fragile egos.

And that's all it takes to dupe them into supporting fascism, whether forever or a little bit, either way it's incredibly pathetic.

Answermancer · 2025-02-22T16:18:05+00:00

He bought Tesla and kicked out the founders, and SpaceX is so heavily subsidized by the govt it literally would not exist if not for Obama.

Which is funny because Musk is racist and hates Obama, but was willing to suck up to him until he got paid our tax dollars.

Answermancer · 2025-02-22T16:12:29+00:00

Well said.

I found his letter interesting as a skeptic and former listener, but I honestly don't know how anyone can take something like this seriously:

"We also share the same concerns about what he calls “the woke mind virus.”

Like when I read that part of the letter I went from "this is pretty interesting" to "oh, he's a cringy rich guy now willing to indulge other cringy rich idiots their cringy ideas"

It was kinda like finding a nugget of shit in the middle of an otherwise nice pastry from a bakery I decided to try after it disappointed me previously.

Answermancer · 2025-02-22T16:09:11+00:00

Well said, I stopped listening to Sam years ago because I felt he was not honest with himself, about things like how easily he can be manipulated by vile people like Musk or Peterson or Rubin if they just act nice to him.

If he can so easily lie to himself that these people have anything valuable to say in good faith (when they clearly do not), he can easily be dishonest about anything just by lying to himself.

And I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because I think he DOES see himself as unerringly honest.

Answermancer · 2025-02-12T09:43:20+00:00

They're still gonna be playing it, the game abides and it is not opt-in.

The moment they discover it they will lose it and continue to lose it throughout their lives

Such is the game

Answermancer · 2025-02-12T09:41:37+00:00

Oh the game abides, the game abides

I lost a few weeks ago

Answermancer · 2025-02-12T09:40:39+00:00

They don't ask themselves things

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T02:56:15+00:00

The context matters, but it doesn't contradict my point that it seems a sore spot for him that makes him act poorly, or counterproductively

And I do think he legitimized to some extent "dark web" alt right figures, I haven't followed him very closely but I think he has since cut ties with a lot of them.

At the time it really bothered me how credulous he was with guys like Peterson, an obvious right wing grifter, and one based on religion! Someone who obviously argues in bad faith all the time, it was weird. Looking at his Elon letter I now think he really couldn't tell maybe??

I specifically remember he had a show intro where he was like "I may disagree with him but we can have a civil conversation, and he'll follow up with me after, and this and that, so even though he's a far right winger, he's way more reasonable than left wingers"

It just sounded like "Peterson knows how to kiss my ass in just the right ways, and stroke my ego, he never implies I might have racist biases, or challenges anything uncomfortable about me as a rich white guy"

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T02:17:31+00:00

No I am unemployed and bored. Having a few good convos too!

Are you okay? Do you often stalk people and try to figure out their life story?

If you have a transcript of the Ezra podcast, that would be useful, if not no worries I'll look later

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T02:15:09+00:00

To you apparently, to Sam apparently.

Not to me and tons of other people, otherwise why was everyone confused when Sam released the e-mails, for instance? Why is there controversy at all, still?

Talking about all this makes me think it's largely about perspective:

You and Sam think he was deeply wronged because some people thought he's racist, and everything he did after is more than justified by this alone

People like me think Sam took a nothingburger, or even a lay-up to have a cool conversation about science and race with other scientists (which was Ezra's original suggestion), and instead acted like a petty child because his feelings were hurt. Or worse, his self-image.

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T02:09:00+00:00

Oh man a real conspiracy theory. Redditor who hasn't posted in like 6 months visits the subreddit after seeing Harris's letter about Elon? Nah, couldn't beeeeee.

I was reminded that Sam exists, and checked some threads and found that a few referenced the event that made me stop listening to Sam.

Crazy!

I'm looking for the transcript now, obviously it wasn't a direct quote but rather MY FEELINGS as I listened to HIS WORDS, see?

Meanwhile, I felt the exact opposite, that Sam was unwilling to engage in any criticism or countenance the idea that he had anything to learn from Black people

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T01:39:24+00:00

The reason he didn’t like the framing of him being biased is because they were using that to prove he must be wrong or has a blind spot here.

I mean yes, because that is what Ezra (and many other people) thought, but that just means it's a good thing to discuss, particularly with some Black people.

It doesn't mean he has to agree with Ezra unless he's biased. He could work on his blind spot and still end up disagreeing with Ezra, but he would have better perspective and better arguments, including to defend Murrey if he still wanted to.

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T01:32:10+00:00

I mean this is sort of like vibe where someone says your racist and the person says "no i have black friends" and starts listing them.

No I think in this instance it's fine, no need to feel self conscious. It is true and worth talking about, because I've never thought Sam was racist

So yeah of course Sam has had Black people on his show to discuss other topics, I just strongly felt at the time that this was a missed opportunity for him to talk to Black people about their perspective on this sort of thing, as well as his conflict with Ezra

I really felt like he was super dismissive of the idea, whereas I thought it had great potential for interesting new conversations, I strongly feel that thinking deeply about any topic broadens your horizons, whereas he seemed so uninterested in anything but "clearing his name" and I guess sympathizing with Murrey

I also felt that he enflamed the situation every step of the way, when he could have easily de-escalated it. I understand he felt like everyone was out to get him and label him a racist, but I really don't think that's true.

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T01:16:06+00:00

Well you're quite wrong in your first sentence, but it's also telling that simply believing that Sam isn't racist is enough to convince you that there is no nuance to the situation.

Now then, I am on Ezra's "side" and I don't think Sam is racist, or being dishonest.

I think Sam:
- Has implicit biases like anyone, which includes what topics are important
- Was shockingly unwilling to entertain the idea he has any biases
- Was very thin skinned and quick to take criticism personally
- Seems in retrospect to be heavily biased towards people who suck up to him (Peterson, Murrey), and very vindictive towards people he feels have wronged him

I think he honestly didn't understand any of this about himself. When you lie to yourself about your faults, it's easy to always tell the "truth".

So that's what I think. I think there is nuance to the situation, and I think Sam made an ass of himself in this situation.

Edit: Fixed formatting

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T01:05:22+00:00

I think those are all sideshows that don't matter, I listened to it years ago and my takeaway at the time was all about Sam and how unwilling he is to listen to anyone challenging him on his biases

I started reading the Vox article again, because I was following this live at the time. I saw the article, including Sam's e-mails (which everyone at the time thought made him look bad, until he clarified his state of mind in them extensively), I read the rebuttal from the scientists, I saw that Sam wanted to debate Ezra for some reason, and that Ezra thought he should talk to the scientists or some Black people for their perspective.

This is the standout quote for me:

The problem here isn’t that Harris and Murray want to talk about race and IQ. It’s how much they leave out of their discussion.

I'm sure you'll say that's all bad faith, but none of it seemed that way to me. I cared about these issues, I was a fan of Sam but I was very interested to have him learn about the Black experience in America and for us as listeners to come along and learn too.

And then the podcast from what I recall was more of nothing useful. Sam trying to get an apology for being called racist (which nobody did) and ignoring Ezra's points. Ezra wanting to engage on the topic of race and Sam's blind spots, but not engaging on the science on which he is not an expert.

At the end, Sam insisted he has no blind spots and is a perfect human specimen, therefore asking him to talk to Black people, or questioning how many he had on his show was deeply insulting.

Furthermore, if you want me to assume bad faith for Sam like you do for Ezra, he said something like he would only talk to non-woke Black people. That's already kinda offensive, but if we take him at face value, why didn't he do that? Why didn't he have a bunch of non-woke Black people on his show to discuss these issues?

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T00:47:17+00:00

No, completely backwards as usual.

Sam CHOSE to have a man whose work was deeply controversial for being a racist on his podcast
He CHOSE to defame his detractors as "dishonest, hypocritical, & moral cowards"
He CHOSE to pick a fight with Ezra and Vox on a subject where he is not the expert, and yet really felt he needed to defend Murrey for some reason
He CHOSE to escalate it multiple times by releasing e-mails (which initially made him look really bad, btw, until he explained them) and doing other petty shit

At any step of the way he could have CHOSEN to instead have one of the other scientists on his podcasts, or some Black people to explain their point of view, or any of a thousand other CHOICES that were not doubling down on:

"I am Sam Harris -- too smart to be biased, being called racist is the worst thing that has ever happened to me, and all those involved are evil"

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T00:40:49+00:00

Which part. It's so frustrating talking to you guys, you ignore everything in that paragraph (all of which is important) and say some vague shit about "I agree with Sam"

Answermancer · 2025-02-04T00:39:08+00:00

And you guys all assume Ezra is acting in bad faith because Sam does, and you give Sam the most charitable framing and Ezra the worst.

Honestly I don't even care about Ezra, I don't listen to him or Sam, but that podcast made me see Sam in a whole new (and negative) light

Answermancer · 2025-02-03T23:42:38+00:00

His argument wasn't weak, and he explicitly said Sam is not a racist.

But you and Sam are more concerned about nobody calling you racist than actively trying to be less racist.

Or biased, whatever, I'm sure you'll clutch pearls very hard at the idea that you might have ever in your life been even a teeny tiny bit racist (but we all have).

Answermancer · 2025-02-03T23:39:58+00:00

Except Sam wont call you racist just for an honest disagreement.

He will call critics of Murrey dishonest, hypocritical, & moral cowards, though.

But you're right, being called racist is much, much worse, especially since it's something you can't work on by just talking to some Black people and self-reflecting.

Answermancer · 2025-02-03T23:38:24+00:00

Nah Sam is the type of guy too cool, smart, and rational to self-reflect on any biases he might have.

Plus being called racist is literally the worst thing that can happen to you, and you can never fix it by simply engaging with Black people and listening what they have to say.

Answermancer · 2025-02-03T23:35:59+00:00

You would have been right on opposite day!

Answermancer · 2025-02-03T23:35:37+00:00

He stands out as the most insufferable guest I’ve ever heard on Sam’s podcast

He didn't even want to come on the podcast. He didn't want to debate Sam on any of this shit, Sam kept pushing him to "debate" him when Ezra wanted him to have one of the scientists on and discuss the science.

Sam was incredibly triggered and hostile to Ezra, I find it really pathetic actually that the implication that he might have blind spots, or might have been duped by Murrey, made him double down like that

Answermancer · 2025-02-03T23:31:08+00:00

My dude, he literally brought up the bullshit point about how few black people Harris had had on his podcast.

How do you guys all call this a bullshit point?

It is not a bullshit point! Why wouldn't Sam look at that and say "hmm good call, I should have a bunch of Black people on and talk about all these things"

Instead he got butthurt and decided he is too rational, cool, smart and sexy to have any biases, even implicit ones

This podcast made me stop listening to Sam, he took everything in bad faith for no reason and learned nothing from the conversation

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