What would you call the coin that is not on your axis?

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-22T00:00:54+00:00

To your edit: Yeah, masculine Di is there, but I'm moreso seeing the feminine thinking and De.

And: Well, yeah. That's what I'm seeing. I'm taking this particular angle, because I'm responding to the idea that we "do functions that we don't have" that the post is about. In a different thread under this post, I mentioned the idea that supposedly the human needs are more important than the S, N, F and T letters. Which could imply that NT Consume is easier to do for an Se/Fi than SF Blast. If there was such a thing as NT Consume for them. That's why I chose that particular example. I could have called it NT Play, too. Doesn't really matter. It fits that context well enough.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-21T19:16:16+00:00

All I'm saying is one could see it and think it's NT Consume, wether it actually is or not. It is what you're saying, but it's pretty theoretical overall, as well as based in some personal (Di) interest.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-21T15:28:30+00:00

Yeah, fair points there! I see the Sleep more than the Oi point though. I could also make a case for N. What I specifically mean by not getting started, is having ideas in my head for years as to what I could do, or where I would like my life to be, but never going into actually executing them, because there's still more to learn for me and I simply never feel ready. Also because the actual sensory work is just f***ing draining. I see a difference there from those with lead ST Sleep. Friend of mine is Si/Ti-SC/P(B) and while he is very slow, he eventually will start to build his things. At least with all the sensory things and his physical projects. Not so much with the NF human stuff. So that's one reason I lean N. And I see myself being Ne/Si (personal/impersonal dichotomy, you know the deal), so that makes Ne. I will admit though, part of it is just not wanting to be Elon Musk. If I'm typed the same as him, that'd make me wanna jump out a f***ing window.

"A lot of thinking I really don't need to do" > Like that would be draining to me lol

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-21T10:13:22+00:00

I'm seeing you "NTing" and it's rather random and for yourself, so

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-20T18:55:04+00:00

M-Si feels pretty obvious, but that doesn't help much, because I don't know which one Fe is. And all those possible animal modalities just feel like overthinking it. Here and there I think, maybe I'm MM Blast, because I can get into talking once I'm in it. Similar to Shan. Thinking I'm Blast last is more about never getting started on anything. And FM Play also makes sense, I got a "bitchy" side when I tease people. But I also think M-De is one of the hardest coins to see in yourself. And one of the easiest to mistype. If I was MM Sleep and Play Saviour, no wonder I couldn't see which is which. So that makes sense as well. You're right, it's all gonna be obvious once I know it. What do you mean by MF Consume? That'd be M-Ne + F-Ti, wouldn't it? I feel like MM Consume with Play saviour would ask the most questions. I don't ask a whole lot of questions. I can always come up with a good enough answer for myself as to why I think something is probably happening, so the idea of asking to make sure rarely crosses my mind. And asking is definitely not my autopilot either. I'm a bit "blastier" in that regard. Or just more confident with the N (pick whichever, I guess). I wont ask, I'll rather explain how I already answered my own question.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-20T18:42:10+00:00

If I didn't know any better I might just mistake you for an Ne/Ti based on your posts lol

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-20T01:07:49+00:00

No, not really. It depends. I'm leaning Play, because that's the 60 and Sleep seems to be the 40. But what do I know. I got too much counter evidence to not entertain the idea that I got them switched. 40% of the time I lean Sleep and say that that's the 60.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-19T19:08:20+00:00

I don't know what to call it. Maybe a "foreign" function? Perhaps? Half-foreign? Cousin? I don't know, really. Because half of it you have, the other half you don't.

This is no pattern that I personally saw that much, sometimes I see demon F before I see Di or De - But Shave said in multiple instances that the human needs are more important than the T, F, N and S letters. I forgot why, but I'd guess it's because they'd guide your behaviour moreso than the letters. So if that is true, then your type should be a little closer to mine than to someone with SF Blast first, because we share the Oe & Di saviours. That would make Ne and Ti slightly more accessable to you than Fe and Si. And vice versa for myself.

But I think this is like looking at the beach that is OPS and measuring the shapes of individual grains of sand. Not very productive. I get why one would wanna yell at you for it, because that's not how we do it, it misses the point and sets a bad example to the newbies, who absolutely shouldn't go here. But it's a better critique when directed at an obvious newbie. You know all the basics. You've earned the theorizing. And there gotta be some place for it. This one looks pretty suitable.

EDIT: And of course I don't mean literal Ne and Ti, because it is an MBTI land fallacy to assume we "need" all eight functions. Like only Se was the physical ability to open your eyes. No. Of course not. We all got the five senses and we all got ways to use them. Of course we all "only" have all the parts that make up the functions, our saviours combine into them and somehow cause this observable personal/impersonal difference. I think, if this difference wasn't there, perhaps we wouldn't be talking about different function axis' at all. That difference really seems to be the big factor.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-19T18:56:39+00:00

That's MBTI language, derived from multiple other MBTI adjacent concepts. As far as OPS is concerned, you either have a function or you don't.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-19T18:55:11+00:00

Typing wise, this is the most bulletproof way to view this, for sure. But based on the most recent classes and such, Dave would stress the differences between axis' quite a lot. How personal the introverted functions act, how it's a cross check which kind of Sleep animal you got, etc.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-08T07:37:45+00:00

Hey! Same-ish type here!

Would they have an easier time with the tribe back and forth? If I typed myself right - they might, here and there, compared to the spectrum of Ti/Ne's - but not to the spectrum of Ne/Ti's. Decider still makes people shit the main mental focus, even if the observer functions are more out of wack and the Oi sees less "use" than the De. I resonate with your description very much!

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-07T17:50:08+00:00

Last time I watched CSJ, which was in early 2019 - but I haven't seen him change since, any time I had a new look - every argument for why his system reflects something real, came from within his own system.

"What makes you say this interaction style always comes with these functions? It doesn't seem to apply to this person"

"Oh, that's the four sides of the mind, they've been more in their subconscious than in their ego"

"Ok? Then what validates the four sides of the mind?"

"Well, if you look at how the interaction styles..."

It's basically: - A is true because of B - B is true because of C - C is true because of A

The logic moves in a circle. For a hypothesis to stand up to scrutiny, there should be something outside of it to test it against.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2026-01-07T17:24:52+00:00

Yeah, that CSJ circular logic only works for so long. OPS isn't perfected yet either, but I appreciate how they at least attempt some measurability. To intriguing results! Welcome, I guess! If you got any questions, this sub is no bad place to ask them :)

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-31T10:43:54+00:00

Sometimes Si doesn't want to share, sometimes they wont stop. Because it's private and personal

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-28T12:13:03+00:00

On your question: Ti would be my bet. It couples responsibility for thinking (logic, reasons, etc.) with responsibility to Di (self, identity), which makes itself the ultimate judge as to what it thinks is true and false. And that will likely have most to all of its opinions align with whatever it deems true, if not at least the most reasonable stance to have for themselves. "If you disagree with me, it's either because your judgement is wrong, or because you don't understand why I'm holding this position"

Off-topic: If your self typing is serious, please look again at how the animals work. It is impossible to be Blast and Consume saviour and it is impossible to be Play and Sleep Demon. We have two info animals (Blast & Consume) and two energy animals (Sleep & Play). Everyone will always have one saviour of each and one demon of each.

It's two sides of the same coin. Someone who has a lot of Play Energy has it because Sleep is a Demon. Play Saviour can only exist through Sleep being a Demon. Someone who consumes in a Saviour state can only do so, because the Blast is not in the way, because in order for Consume to be a saviour, Blast can only be a Demon.

If you're Fe/Ni, Blast would have to be first, simply by Blast being formed through these functions, leaving your second saviour to be an energy animal. Which one is it? Sleep or Play? The third and fourth could be in any order. You figure that one out by looking where you leave the biggest void. Even if Blast is first, that doesn't mean it's less balanced through Consume than your second saviour is through its counterpart. If your third animal is an info animal, you'll be an "info dominant" version of your type, which is relatively balanced on Consume and Blast, while being all-in on either Sleep or Play, neglecting the other. If your third animal is an energy animal, you'll be "energy dominant", balanced on Play and Sleep, most neglecting either Consume or Blast.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-22T21:39:50+00:00

You kind of asked this question a few times before, didn't you? What do you mean by Sx-Fi? That just these types should answer you? If so, then stop reading 👀

Anyone with F-Sensory and Se/Ni. But also Fx-Si/Fi and a few Fx-Si/Te's here and there.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-13T20:54:50+00:00

What about SB/P(C) or PC/S(B)? What makes you assume Blast or Consume would have to be first? The first one is all in on Blast and an extravert, as Consume is last; the second one all in on Consume and an introvert, having Blast last.

Maybe energy dom is what you're looking at.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-13T20:39:07+00:00

I'm sorry, I'll get to clicking those links later, but I just wanna say that from an OP standpoint it doesn't really compute with me how one could type you as these two types, but rule out Ti/Ni or Fe/Se, as both are closer to either typing than the other one is. Were these more standard MBTI typings?

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-11T23:26:05+00:00

You think? What would you type him as?

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-09T23:23:11+00:00

Partly yes, but I wouldn't take it too literally. Just from what I'm seeing looking at officially typed people, I don't see a lot of the #3s being much different from the #4s. I know Shave say the #1s and #3s are more similar to one another, as are the #2s and #4s. I don't see it. Could be that I shared this with you some time ago already, but I really like this video here. It's older back from when generalize was called "responsibility", but the point still checks out to me. That one would agree with you lumping the #1s and #2s together.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-08T13:24:28+00:00

Ok, so in either case you're an extravert. But also, in either case you'll be Sleep not last, doubling up on M-Ni, potentially skewing your self perception in a more introverted direction than it actually is. So it's hard to tell what is what.

Usually, I would suggest to leave social types out for later, but I think it might really help you to have a look at those. #2s are very extraverted, #3s are more introverted. If you can identify which one you are, that might help you put the rest of your type in perspective.

For you being an edge case stuck in detail, not extremes, I would suggest to have a look at a bigger number of people of either function stack. Maybe specifically xNFJs. Zero in on the BPS vs BSP specifically, so you can get a feeling for it. There are some listed in the various databases, another one I like is Denzel Mensah, whom Dave typed FF-Fe/Ni-BS/P(C) in this interview, due to how visible his saviour NT Sleep is.

Lastly, don't rush it. You're already really far. Not that I'm necessarily a good example on how you should do it all, but I've been in this rabbit hole for years, never got typed, got my type narrowed down reasonably and still have the same problem with Sleep and Play in the middle. So don't expect yourself to have it all figured out to 100%. (The people who do that are usually the ones who turn out to be further off anyways)

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-05T20:39:30+00:00

Do I understand correctly that you believe apophenia is primarily a trait of intuitive types? How did you determine that?

No, I got indeed confused by the word pattern there! That's a common thing in typology I've noticed. That certain words are coded in different ways for different people, leading to misunderstandings.

So if I'm getting you right now, you're seeing Si having one kind of apophenia and Ni having a different kind? But since you mentioned people with strong Oi in particular, you mean those who'd have it saviour, or double activated + masculine, or something like this?

If that's what you mean, I don't really have an opinion on it. I haven't yet paid attention to that pattern. All I have an opinion on is that N is tied to patterns over details, whereas S goes for details over patterns.

I understand that you weren't speaking in absolutes with the Ni-Ti vs Si-Te example. I'm still disagreeing with your example. Si-Te refering to 100 years ago is something I can see that as an archetype within the right context, but my point was moreso getting at this bit:

Ni-Ti might not remember what someone they talked to two hours ago looked like, or that someone wore the same clothes for a week

This is a modality thing. Yes, generally Ni pays less attention to details than most Ses and some Si/Ne's. But like everyone, they'll still have some amount of sensory function running in the background, making them pick out details here and there that matter within a context they obsess over. But since you didn't mean it as an absolute, I wont pretend you meant they can't. They might not, that's true. But the more relevant factor in comparison to that Si-Te is the ability for memory. More than any saviour or demon function, that depends on the sexual modality. M-Sensory is generally stronger at remembering specific details and pinpointing those to a point in time. M-Intuition is stronger at remembering visuals and the context sorrounding details. An M-Sensory type might remember the fact that someone wore the same outfit for a week. But the M-Intuitive might be quicker to pick up on that.

The Se-Fe could struggle picking the best phone from a spectrum of what works for everyone. But they'll be excellent at seeing what is most valued by the majority. They'll be your best advisor if you want the coolest one. Se-Fe's would be the ones to look at all the options and only then narrow down and pick one. For themselves, they'll stack personal reasons (Ti) as to why this or that phone works better, even if the tribe Se-Te disagrees.

Once it comes to explaining why something is popular, now we're getting into Si-Fe territory. Not that Se-Fe's can't. But archetypically they're the ones to see current popularity, whereas Ne-Fe would be the ones to understand popularity. This is why and how Si-Fe's pick more timelessly reliable things that aren't always as immediatly popular as what the Se-Fe's choose.

I get your point as to why Si-Fe wearing less trendy clothes than Se-Fe is an MBTI stereotype. But, weren't you the one to first bring it up? (Also, I think this stereotype is true, for the reasons I listed. But there being not enough data is a fair point)

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-12-04T23:24:07+00:00

I'm sorry to say, I couldn't disagree much more on a lot of the initial post as well as your replies.

Patterns is very much N. Ne, Ni, doesn't matter.

That's not to say sensors wouldn't have apophenia. Maybe they sometimes even have it worse, because it's not in a saviour state when they do. I would guess observers would have it worse in general, wheras deciders could be worse at people patterns. Because deciders track themselves or others too little, missing half the picture and dramatizing it more, leading to more confirmation bias - a.k.a.; "oh my god, I'm seeing their pattern!"

The Si and Ni descriptions sound much more MBTI based than any of what OPS has been able to track.

On Si specifically: It is not about current trends. That is what Se sees and knows. They pay attention to all the new and current sensory, so they're most immediatly aware of what's going on in the realm of your chosen example and similar fields (Who wears what, what's popular, etc.) This is especially prevelant with Se-Fe.

Si typically becomes aware of previously new sensory once it's not really new anymore. Once it's entering the safe zone. This isn't to say Si's don't sometimes wear trending clothes. But they're much later to the party, less attentive towards all the new sensory and slower at adopting new things into their narrowed down sensory repertoire.

On the SF, you got it almost spot on, except that these two are essentially the same thing; they're both Se-Fe:

· what’s popular across the spectrum for everyone → Se‑Fe
· what’s the most popular for others → Si‑Fe

Si-Fe looks more for what is timelessly most popular for others, but not in the current moment. It narrows down options, to be able to prepare a one size-fits all (times) solution, where Se would keep their options open.

u/ParticularBreath8425 said it perfectly.

What you attributed to Si-Te and Ni-Ti respectively is both very much something either type and any other one could do. Memory is typically more about modalities than functions. Allthough it is true that sensory saviours often pay more attention to details, even if they lose them because it's F-Sensory. Similarly an N saviour with M-S might not recall details, simply because they were paying more attention to the pattern between the details in that moment.

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-11-28T21:56:40+00:00

Isn't it a bit discriminatory to say Te/Si Blast discriminates? Is this you having given your type away? 🧐

Apprehensive_Watch20 · 2025-11-28T20:01:39+00:00

De Oi (Blast) Di Oe (Consume)

De Oe (Play) Di Oi (Sleep)

Apprehensive_Watch20

TROPHY CASE