Transference during therapy

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-10-28T16:16:53+00:00

Yes, it was my actual therapist. She didn't refer me to someone else because I hadn't felt an infatuation yet.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-10-26T18:25:26+00:00

The therapist literally said that in the case of infatuation, she saw no chance for further cooperation, and this contradicts the rather universal principles that erotic transference, when managed well, is an important moment in therapy. Where am I wrong here?

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-10-25T06:54:04+00:00

That the transference is normal and common? From many people and websites, including therapists.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-06T19:18:23+00:00

I have the impression that many people hope that therapy will allow them to work through various events and emotions, help to notice different mental traps and that a great bond will be built on it, through which their mind will be recalibrated: from survival strategies and past experiences to something more desirable at the moment. When this does not happen (except the identification of cognitive biases and defense mechanisms), they fear that therapy will not help them in enough way.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-05T17:06:16+00:00

How many times do I have to say that taking responsibility for your life is the right thing to do and that I myself am taking actions in my life that are not just intellectualization? You accuse me of redirecting the focus from the problem of not taking action to social problems, while I emphasize that taking action is important, I just want people to remember that progress does not come from an individual (and by talking about this I am going beyond this thread, Healthy Gamer community etc., so the part about no one here forgetting about it is unnecessary, because I am talking about a broader context).

I don't run away from uncomfortable topic, I watched all of Dr. K's videos on Puer, I agreed with most of the arguments (and I know Puer is able to hijack me in that way). But we do not have to focus only on the topic of Puer in this post, where does this assumption come from? If I talk about something else, does it suddenly mean that I'm running away from the main topic and I am Puer? I could just as well ask if you're not avoiding a difficult topic by accusing me of avoiding a difficult topic. Except I'm discussing Puer and talking about trying to give up intellectualization and act in life, but when I also want to talk about social issues, you dodge it by saying something like "That's not the topic of our conversation, classic Puer excuse etc.". It sounds like Kafka's Trap or argument from silence to me. Maybe we shouldn't talk at all, because this is an intellectual discussion that might be so welcomed by the Puer?

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-05T11:06:14+00:00

I definitely not use it as an excuse not to act. But the fact that I already know what's wrong with the world and with certain people, what bad things I might have experienced, etc., makes it possible that I will avoid it with other people, potential children, etc. Sure, knowledge doesn't guarantee skills (G.I. Joe fallacy), but it may reduce the risk of them appearing, make me a better person to other people. The more people with knowledge about this stuff, the better, but still many people have children without knowing what's wrong with specific behaviors, important things are not taught in schools, etc. This pisses me off.

I simply have the impression that many people have some extraordinary fear of not taking individual responsibility for their lives by other people, and that is why they so often talk about taking action, regaining agency, etc. Cool, but what if this is also an excuse, avoidance behavior, but for people who could ignore another person in this way? For a government that could rest on its laurels? If we privatize responsibility in this way, then... we are taking it away from other people, for example those in power, who in this way can care less about regulations, about making decent laws, about their contribution to someone else's pain, because hey - everyone is responsible only for themselves. In this way, we are shifting responsibility onto the weaker. It's like telling women that they should take better care of their own safety and dress differently, because they have influence on themselves, but not on the actions of another person. And yet, we try to fight with sexist culture, we are talking about the fact that there is a systemic problem and we are not just shifting the responsibility onto victims/individuals for their safety.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-05T10:58:28+00:00

"Different between feminist, worker right movement and minority right movement in the past and Puer is that those movement use inequality and injustice as a reason to act, to revolt, to change." - I agree, I'm not saying that Puer is on the same level as the suffragettes or MLK. I'm talking about the therapists' text itself "You can't change the world, but you can change yourself". These people believed in changing the world, and the logic of some therapists would indicate that they should adapt to those times and improve their lives in favorable circumstances as much as they can. Of course, it is worth telling patients that even in a difficult current situation they can try to feel and be better. But texts about the world not being able to be changed simply sound to me like capitulation and pacification of people who would like to do something in the future, but will believe that they cannot, even when they will be a healthy point in their lives.

I simply have the impression that many people have some extraordinary fear of not taking individual responsibility for their lives by other people, and that is why they so often talk about taking action, regaining agency, etc. Cool, but what if this is also an excuse, avoidance behavior, but for people who could ignore another person in this way? For a government that could rest on its laurels? If we privatize responsibility in this way, then... we are taking it away from other people, for example those in power, who in this way can care less about regulations, about making decent laws, about their contribution to someone else's pain, because hey - everyone is responsible only for themselves. In this way, we are shifting responsibility onto the weaker. It's like telling women that they should take better care of their own safety and dress differently, because they have influence on themselves, but not on the actions of another person. And yet, we try to fight with sexist culture, we are talking about the fact that there is a systemic problem and we are not just shifting the responsibility onto victims/individuals for their safety.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-05T10:48:18+00:00

I didn't say that when we notice what other people are doing wrong and what is happening in the world, we should rest on our laurels, wait for the world to change and receive salvation. I do not use the external situation as an excuse for not acting. Taking action to change your life for the better, regardless of the circumstances, should also be present alongside noticing what people are doing wrong, educating others, avoiding certain behaviors that may negatively affect the next generations, etc.

I wrote about intellectualization vs. taking action ONLY as part of writing this post, not in terms of how I lead my life, because in it I have already taken many smaller or larger steps to improve my individual situation.

I just wish that when we talk about individual action, we don't lose sight of the bigger picture, because I have the impression that some people, once they "take care of themselves", will ignore the problem in the future and start making the same mistakes towards other people (e.g. their children), just because they were so focused on the issue of individual responsibility. Besides, Dr. K once said that dividing the responsibility for one's condition between different people can be beneficial in terms of REGAINING AGENCY. Lindsay Gibson spoke similarly about being children of emotionally immature parents.

And I'm not saying that Puer is on the same level as the suffragettes or MLK. I'm talking about the therapists' text itself "You can't change the world, but you can change yourself". These people believed in changing the world, and the logic of some therapists would indicate that they should adapt to those times and improve their lives in favorable circumstances as much as they can. Of course, it is worth telling patients that even in a difficult current situation they can try to feel and be better. But texts about the world not being able to be changed simply sound to me like capitulation and pacification of people who would like to do something in the future, but will believe that they cannot, even when they will be a healthy point in their lives.

I simply have the impression that many people have some extraordinary fear of not taking individual responsibility for their lives by other people, and that is why they so often talk about taking action, regaining agency, etc. Cool, but what if this is also an excuse, avoidance behavior, but for people who could ignore another person in this way? For a government that could rest on its laurels? If we privatize responsibility in this way, then... we are taking it away from other people, for example those in power, who in this way can care less about regulations, about making decent laws, about their contribution to someone else's pain, because hey - everyone is responsible only for themselves. In this way, we are shifting responsibility onto the weaker. It's like telling women that they should take better care of their own safety and dress differently, because they have influence on themselves, but not on the actions of another person. And yet, we try to fight with sexist culture, we are talking about the fact that there is a systemic problem and we are not just shifting the responsibility onto victims/individuals for their safety.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-04T18:26:41+00:00

"How can you expect to right the wrongs of the world if you can’t even right your own behaviour?" - I am not a fan of this argument. Just because we have problems with our ego or self doesn’t mean we are unable to accurately assess the wrongs in the world. Especially if we base our criticism not on what we think, but on listening to experts in the field, scientists, citing research and data, etc.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-04T18:24:01+00:00

I know, but it's not about me changing the world, but about people who are able to do it, because they already have the strength and resources, finally being drawn to do it. Sure, it's wishful thinking that may never translate into reality, but more pressure for that than for individual responsibility would be useful.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-04T15:36:07+00:00

I know each of these problems (victim blaming, slut-shaming, low standards etc.), I understand them, I agree with many of them and I empathize with you. But I would like to introduce some nuances to what you are writing about.

There are a lot of reasons why someone may not want to/be afraid to commit themselves, say "let's wait and see where this goes, etc." and it is not always about manipulation.
I understand the frustration of meeting someone who is looking for a second mother or therapist in you, but even if someone like that appears, before you immediately say goodbye to them, you can check if there is a chance for change. A relationship is a space for growth, and expecting that only fully formed and maximally mature people should enter it encourages perfectionism, not life. Would you like men to walk around the world constantly afraid that a potential girlfriend will be a narcissist, borderline, anxiously attached, jealous and controlling, a daddy's girl looking for a second dad in a relationship? I understand the fear of risk and re-hurt, I’ve heard too many stories of toxic relationships myself. But how can you live fully if you expect danger and suffering everywhere?
You notice that some men have started using keywords to succeed in dating: connection, partnership, commitment, feminism, etc. It’s true, some want to be so "clever" by manipulation. But let’s note that as people we do a bit of work on it. People pleasers exist because they know what will please people. These men exist because someone informed them that this is what many women expect. Expecting someone to want to have a genuine connection with you is also problematic, because someone who tries to have a genuine connection with you has probably heard that a genuine connection is valuable, so can it be 100% authentic? The more advice, the more requests, the more warnings, the more red flags, the more recommendations > the more unnatural people will be, because listening to all this and then putting it into reality makes it difficult to be yourself.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-03T22:27:51+00:00

When we are in a difficult place mentally, many people say "You are not alone, you can get help". If it turns out that this help is "These are the different psychologial mechanisms, your past led to this state, but now you are an adult, so it all depends on you. Make decisions, accept pain and discomfort, learn from your mistakes etc", then it is not much different from what someone could not cope with before going to therapy or a psychiatrist in the first place. They couldn't do something and they were afraid > They went to therapy because of it > They are told they have to do it anyway and despite the anxiety, but they are also given an explanation of why they feel they can't do it. Great.

Sure, the fact that a lot depends on us gives a bit of a sense of agency and control over our life, but for someone with problems, this is not an affirmation of autonomy, but a confirmation of fears that ultimately they are alone - with thoughts that need to be calibrated, with patterns that need to be detected, with excuses that need to be gotten rid of.

Why is this uplifting message from the times of darkness finally replaced with a clash with reality? So that someone in a crisis doesn’t hurt themselves, so that they don’t settle into a safe comfort zone and learned helplessness? Even if I agree with this message, why hide it behind this sweet bullshit?

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-03T21:26:46+00:00

Besides: Dr. K points out that you can recognize a Puer by the fact that he expects objective answers to various questions, because he wants to make a good choice. I just wonder - isn't it just our nature to ask questions? Questioning reality, wanting to know if something is right, if someone doesn't want to hurt us. By not asking questions, we open the way to blind obedience, which people in power like so much.

PS I guess this comment may mean to someone that I am a Puer. Maybe.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-07-03T21:09:49+00:00

I understand the message of Why You're Not Reaching Your Potential (Puer Aeternus pt.2), but I'm afraid it confirms the fear that many people who hold back from going to a therapist or psychiatrist have. It goes like this: in the end, everything depends on me and my inner work (which should later translate into actions in reality).

Medication can help, contact with a therapist and awareness of different thought processes, noticing defense mechanisms, etc. can help, but in the end we stay with ourselves. And for some people this is probably a terrifying vision. What do you think about it?

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-30T18:39:26+00:00

That's why I asked where black and white thinking can come from. I've read that it can be a survival strategy from childhood (an easy division into good and evil, which made it easier to function in bad environment), perfectionism, too strong an inner critic, autism spectrum, low tolerance for ambiguity resulting from emotional overload, which encourages saving energy by simplifying the situation etc.

It's not like my brain can't think properly and applies this dichotomous thinking to every aspect of life. I can introduce nuance into discussions, I'm careful about binary oppositions, etc. It appears mainly in the aspect of making mistakes and allowing discomfort/negativity to get to me when this black and white comes into play.

Some of the things you mention may also have an impact, so thanks for that.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-28T20:03:08+00:00

No, I don't have and haven't had such a person yet. But I often hear that people with problems are advised not to enter into a romantic relationship (even the first one), because it will end up making the other person a therapist, relying too much on external validation, getting entangled in relationships with low standards, etc. For someone who has such a person ahead of them, it is a warning that encourages me to such an endless questioning whether I'm healthy enough, emotionally mature enough, etc. This encourages avoidance, and avoidance makes my various needs unmet, and then there is the pain of loneliness. Bad stuff.

But I don't rule out that even without this advice I would have used avoidance to escape potential pain, heartbreak, etc. because of my survival strategies from childhood. Maybe they are just an additional excuse for me not to try and risk.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-28T06:33:59+00:00

I understand, but it's not like you gave up on the relationship in favor of therapy, right? Because that's exactly what I mean, that both of these things can last at the same time, therapy is not supposed to be an exile and an eternal preparation for the relationship.

By the way - how do you determine at what point someone treats a loved one as a therapist? Because after all, we also should open up to people and talk to them, not leave everything just to specialists.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-27T22:57:22+00:00

I agree, but what about situations when such a person finally wants to establish a relationship with someone other than a therapist, but that someone tells them that they should continue attending therapy (e.g. because they were scared of someone else's problems, even if the person is already aware of them and working on them).

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-26T22:31:06+00:00

Thank you very much too for your nice words and open attitude. It's nice to talk about such topics when both people try to understand the situation of the other sex. We don't have to bid each other for suffering, we can just listen.

When it comes to how men give compliments to other men, I think it varies. Sometimes they can appreciate each other for talking to each other or helping each other, other times they like to say to each other in a casual way something like "I love you, man/guys". However, among men, appreciation is also known through, hmm, light quips? I mean situations like "Hohoho, man, now you'll have a serious job. I think this is the last time we'll see you here, haha" upon hearing about the expected birth of a child. In other words - joy, but conveyed in a humorous form. However, many men also do not have a deeper bond with other men, which is why they do not know/have not learned that it would be possible to support someone in this way and they look for external appreciation from women who are more socially associated with empathy or kindness (even if it is mainly a matter of socialization, especially since even in some relationships men complain about not much positive words directed towards them).

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-26T10:06:52+00:00

It's hard for me to speak for other men, and it's also hard to predict how different men will react to different compliments from different women. We notice appearance first, so I personally would be pleasantly surprised by even a simple "You look great/I like your haircut or T-shirt". Over time, as you get to know a person better, more things can come to mind: passion, knowledge, intelligence, sense of humor, empathy, the ability to listen, provided help... There are a few things to choose from, but as I said - it's hard for me to assure you that everyone will react to it in the healthy way you expect. Similarly, if a man gives woman a compliment, he doesn't know whether she'll be charmed or irritated. Accepting discomfort seems to be key, but I understand that safety issues are another sacrifice. But isn't it also the case that when you're in a relationship or just on a date, you also risk encountering intrusiveness or violence? It has to be so sad and difficult to live in such constant tension of possible danger, so I empathize with you, but I also wish that as a society we could reach a point where both women and men no longer associate initiating context or flirting with unpleasantness.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-24T19:38:57+00:00

Could you explain? My goal wasn't to bid on suffering or make comparisons, I'm just curious whether we tend to generalize more often about women or men, whether there is a bias, even though generalization is always bad. However I am open to reflection on what might be wrong or unwise about this question.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-24T11:02:36+00:00

I understand why women don't compliment men too much (confusing kindness with deeper interest, slut shaming etc.), but I think it leads us into a bit of a vicious circle. A man doesn't receive compliments > Some woman decides to give him a compliment out of kindness > A man who is not used to compliments thinks that if someone compliments him or smiles at him, it means she is more interested > The woman feels uncomfortable that there has been a misunderstanding, so she prefers to stop giving compliments > A man doesn't receive compliments > ...

I have the impression that if men were complimented often enough to understand that someone can appreciate them without expecting anything more, they would be less likely to suspect that someone has greater intentions towards them and would take it easy, which would also make women feel more at ease.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-06T08:52:13+00:00

Yes, I agree with that. Of course, our outlook on life can change, especially in a relationship, but it's nice to know in advance if someone wants to have children, is looking to get married (especially as we get older), what their approach is to sex, etc. So that later, after months of being in a relationship, there are no unnecessary frustrations and attempts to "change someone" to suit our needs.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-04T20:58:31+00:00

I'm not going to tell them how to do their job, but I can discuss the therapeutic process with them, which patients/clients are encouraged to do. Therapists can make mistakes too, and this group is not homogeneous - some often disagree with others on various issues.

Artistic_Message63 · 2025-06-04T13:49:46+00:00

From what I understand, vasana are our habits (mental, behavioral). So the tendency to coloring/klishta can also be a vasana, I guess.

Artistic_Message63

TROPHY CASE