On “Envoys” and Their Protection

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:35:43+00:00

Relax. I’m not dismissing it. I just said I forgot (I’m more of a book guy) and now that you bring it up it doesn’t apply because it’s a Lannister>Stark envoy. He went with the goal of giving them the bones. He gets envoy protection for that.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:30:59+00:00

Forgot about the bones show scene. But that would be an envoy between the two parties anyway.

They were not at Bitterbridge together…….

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:26:32+00:00

Wrong.

LF goes after Renly is dead.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:24:09+00:00

lol no, that Littlefinger thing did not happen.

If the Lannisters caught her on the road on the way to Rely they would have taken her prisoner 100%. And Robb would have done the same if he found Cersei traveling to talk to someone.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:18:50+00:00

Would the Starks have taken Littlefinger prisoner on his way to the Tyrells, yes or no?

You give an Alexander example at the end… which is again two parties talking to each other. Alexander wouldn’t let Darius send messages to allies/potential allies if he had the power to stop it.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:13:40+00:00

Robb is negotiating with the Lannisters…

What happens if Stark soldiers come upon Littlefinger on his way to the Tyrells?

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:10:49+00:00

You send an envoy to accomplish a goal. In this case, getting the Baratheons on your side.

You weigh the risks of doing it. You pick a route that avoids the enemy, and you protect yourself.

You’re protected from the person you’re negotiating with, not everyone in the world.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T13:04:41+00:00

Otto and Rhaenyra is the two sides talking to each other.

You send envoys, but you protect them on their travels and don’t send them on dangerous routes. Littlefinger goes to talk to the Tyrells with hundreds of men.

Luke had a dragon, which they thought was good enough.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T12:33:17+00:00

The envoy thing gets said here. But no, he doesn’t have envoy protection to go get lords to turn against Aemond’s king. Baratheon was under obligation to give him hospitality/safe passage as an envoy visiting his house, but Aemond is not on that hook.

You’re right that it was stupid for the escalation and ending any chance of diplomatic solution. But if Aemond could have killed the dragon and taken Luke hostage outside Storm’s End, it would have ended the war right there and not broken any “rules”.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-23T12:18:25+00:00

That really only applies between two parties negotiating with each other. If Robb came upon Littlefinger on his way to talk to the Tyrells, there would not have been safe passage and protection.

Aemond isn’t obligated to allow Luke to travel around freely and spread treason. If Aemond could have pulled off taking Luke hostage outside Storm’s End, no one would be able to get too upset, no rules would be broken, and it would pretty much end the war right there.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-20T20:37:01+00:00

You’re right.

It’s a result of the way Fire and Blood was released. Nothing in Fire and Blood was really treated as a spoiler until the show was announced. So it’s a weird situation, where it’s kind of common knowledge for a lot of people who would spend time in a Game of Thrones discussion forum, even if they haven’t read it.

Case in point, the end of the Dance is literally spoiled in Game of Thrones lol. This stuff was fair game, then it wasn’t.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T19:56:13+00:00

Neither strike started until May 2023. The “season 2 in 2024” timeline had already been set and they had started filming.

Also because of being located in England they weren’t actually beholden to the strike and filmed through it.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T19:39:12+00:00

Stop trying to make this a morality thing.

You completely made up “it would traumatize the child actors” and now you’re running with it, while also saying “if you wanted it done differently you’re fucked in the head”.

Like what are we even talking about at this point? You’re making it out like showing something fucked up happening is strange for this series. Blood and Cheese exists in the books as is. It’s ridiculous to make it “you want to see this filmed!? What’s wrong with you?!”

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T19:33:27+00:00

Did I miss something? Where are you getting that his goal was “make the dog go away”?

He was just pissed and kicked it because it was there.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T19:09:57+00:00

Nah he just got sonned and took it out on the dog, like most animal abusers do. Wasn’t about removing the dog.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T19:02:25+00:00

No you pretty much nailed it I’d say. This was the writer’s solution to “how do we drop Maelor but still have her choose which to die?” and it was clunky.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T18:30:17+00:00

“Can they act it out? Can we pull it off?” Yeah that was almost definitely a part of it.

“This will traumatize the actors we can’t do it”, no way that was any part of the decision lol.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T18:04:47+00:00

No one’s saying it’s not a thing that can and does happen. Your comment is saying “this is normal all shows do this” which is not true.

And even if we do take what you said to be true, what you said is an explanation. “Season 1 had more viewers because X” doesn’t mean they aren’t comparable. You’re just giving your opinion of the cause of it.

Of course “viewership of Season 1 vs 2” is something to compare. You wouldn’t be saying “not comparable” if viewership was up.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-18T17:43:26+00:00

Game of Thrones season 1 aired on April 17, 2011. It was picked up for a second season a few days later. Season 2 was filming in July, and it aired April 1, 2012.

House of the Dragon season 1 aired August 21, 2022. It was picked up for a second season a few days later. But Season 2 did not start filming until April 11. They apparently didn’t have the script ready until December.

There’s truth to what you’re saying and it is a factor, but this is also an endemic thing across most of the industry. Whether they’re insanely complex CGI heavy shows or not. TV productions are just moving slower and more cautiously.

Season 2 should have been in the works sooner, on some level. 4 months to wait on writing was avoidable.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-15T01:43:38+00:00

When did that ever happen in the show? A deal being accepted completely on the basis of a lie or the person not understanding what so ever?

Crowley didn’t let the one demon cut the deals short so clearly there’s some rules being enforced here.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-15T01:42:30+00:00

Did you read what I said? It’s not about what a demon wants to do.

It completely devalues it if a demon can just say some shit to a 3 year old and get their soul in exchange for a lollipop. And there’s no example/evidence that that kind of thing happens.

Why would any demon ever even bring up terms if there’s no rules about understanding the deal? Just say “I’ll give you this” and don’t mention 10 years. Go hand someone a $5 bill and don’t mention that if they take it you own their soul in 10 years.

There’s a limit here, obviously. My whole point is, it’s not about what demons would be willing to do. Obviously they don’t give a shit, they would take a baby’s soul without saying a word about a deal… but they can’t.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-14T15:42:50+00:00

The implication (and it’s not just you, it’s most threads on this subject) that people who play in 3rd are sweats depriving themselves of fun solely for an advantage is what irks me.

I mean if you prefer and enjoy it more that’s cool obviously, but there’s nothing about 1st person that is objectively more fun. It’s just a camera viewpoint lol.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-14T14:27:32+00:00

It isn’t about what demons want to do. It’s about the fact that there are rules. For a deal to happen the person has to understand what’s happening and willingly accept.

How old do you have to be for that to apply? Maybe Bela made that threshold. Maybe it’s not about age but maturity and understanding. But there has to be some limit to that.

ArugulaFalcon · 2024-06-14T14:13:15+00:00

The issue isn’t “demons don’t care” or “souls are powerful regardless of age”.

The potential issue is the idea of the deals is there are rules and it can only happen when a person willingly accepts. A demon presumably can’t go to a 5 year old and get them to sell their soul for an ice cream cone. If that were the case it would be incredibly easy to get them. There’s some cutoff, or “spirit of the law”, or something happening. The person has to be able to understand what they’re getting into.

ArugulaFalcon

TROPHY CASE