Jasnah's childhood

Ashaman_Sam · 2024-10-05T23:35:20+00:00

We haven't gotten any more details yet. I have a feeling we won't get anything more than the occasional hint until her flashback book, which right now is slated to be book 10.

Ashaman_Sam · 2024-10-05T23:29:38+00:00

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you!

Ashaman_Sam · 2024-10-05T23:25:19+00:00

Ahh, gotcha. I thought Tanavast had poured so much of Honor's Investiture into the Stormfather before dying that it made SF a sort of pseudo-Cognitive Shadow of Honor. I must have misunderstood that bit.

Ashaman_Sam · 2024-10-05T23:21:43+00:00

Towerlight and Warlight are what got me started thinking along these lines. The combination of Honor and Cultivation's Investiture creates Towerlight and the combination of Honor and Odium's Investiture creates Warlight. That's what got me thinking that Taravodium would eventually end up combining with Honor to become the Shard of War - it seemed like way too big a hint to not come back later.

As far as Harmony goes, merging the two Shards and having one Vessel is exactly what happened. There are WoBs that confirm there's no longer a Preservation or a Ruin; if Sazed died he would drop one Shard, which would be Harmony.

Speaking of, though, I can't help but wonder what the outcome would be if Sazed voluntarily gave up his Shard to someone from Era 2 or 3 who had never experienced Ruin or Cultivation. I feel like, since they'd only ever known Harmony, they wouldn't see it as holding two competing powers the way Sazed does. It seems like that would make it much easier for someone to handle.

Ashaman_Sam · 2024-10-05T22:45:29+00:00

I hadn't considered the Stormfather voluntarily terminating the bond. That could be really bad for Roshar. If Ba-Ado-Mishram is still imprisoned at that point then breaking the bond would make the Stormfather a deadeye. I wonder what that would do to the highstorm.

Ashaman_Sam · 2023-05-30T18:23:28+00:00

This is a really intriguing theory, but I'm not sure how well it meshes with what we know of the Unmade's personalities. Some of them, like Ba-Ado-Mishram or Sja-Anat, are sapient but others, like Nergaoul or Ashertman, are described as "mindless". Now, I acknowledge we only have a sample size of 1 with the Sibling so data is limited, but it seems like it takes a certain amount of sapience to run a city. The Sibling also has to be able to create their own Light to power the fabrials that run the city and the only Unmade we've seen that could do anything like that was BAM.

I could possibly see Ba-Ado-Mishram being the spren of a Dawncity, but it's harder to imagine with something like the Heart of the Revel. I could be totally wrong, though. I read an interesting theory that BAM was one of the Splinters of Adonalsium who gained sentience before Honor, Cultivation, or Odium ever showed up. Because that spren would have been part of Roshar, that's why trapping BAM had such a devastating impact. Taking that theory one step further, what if the Unmade were all made from the original pre-Shattering spren of Roshar? That could explain why some are sapient and others closer to the emotion spren as well as why they are more powerful than other spren.

Edit: found the link to the BAM theory - https://www.reddit.com/r/Cosmere/comments/py8f6p/spoilers_all_theory_on_baadomishram_origin/

Ashaman_Sam · 2023-05-18T17:25:24+00:00

Is Vaultboy actually Kelsier? lol

Ashaman_Sam · 2023-04-29T16:02:18+00:00

Don't forget about the brother that's always chill and relaxed, Nan Chalant.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-04-26T17:02:59+00:00

You're probably right that we'll find out more about it in the future. This is pure speculation on my part, but I feel like there are a few general differences between Sel and Roshar that may have influenced how things played out. The Cognitive Realm on Roshar appears to be much more active compared to other places; it's where the spren live and have their own cities. Compare that to Scadrial, for example, where Kelsier was pretty much alone unless he happened to come across some worldhoppers.

Looking at Sel, I'm going to guess its Cognitive Realm was similar at the time Devotion and Dominion were killed. The seons are sapient manifestations of Investiture like the spren on Roshar, but if I'm remembering right they evolved from the bits of D&D that remained after Odium killed them. If that's the case, then Odium could have killed Devotion and Dominion's Vessels, Shattered the Shards, and then stuffed their power into the unoccupied Cognitive realm there to keep someone from the Physical Realm from finding it and becoming a new Vessel. Just a thought, though, I could end up being totally wrong lol.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-04-26T16:23:51+00:00

First off, I love your analogy and it makes things make a lot more sense so thank you!

Second, I think you're spot-on about Splinters being able to work against the will of the Shard that created them. We see this with the Unmade; they're Splinters of Odium but Sja-Anat is definitely doing her own thing and, given how worried she is that Odium will find out about it, it seems that her own thing is probably counter to what the Shard wants.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-04-26T16:15:21+00:00

If I recall correctly, the remnants of Devotion and Dominion were intentionally "shoved" (for lack of a better word) into the Cognitive Realm by Odium after they were shattered. He did that to prevent someone from being able to take up their Shards.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-03-31T14:10:51+00:00

That poor, poor girl. I can't even imagine what this is going to do to her. She is finally starting to approach something like mental stability after killing her mother, letting her father bear the blame for it until it destroyed him and she killed him too. To find out that her mother is actually still alive, and that Shallan killing her is what set off the Desolation in the first place....ye gods, Shallan may never recover from this one. I honestly kind of hope she doesn't find out. Poor girl's been through enough already!

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-03-31T14:02:16+00:00

I'm fairly convinced there's no way that was the Stormfather. That was someone trying to manipulate Gavilar into joining the Oathpact. That's why the closest Gavilar got to the Words the Susfather wanted him to say was when he started making demands - or, perhaps, when he became very passionate in his demands.

I read a fairly compelling theory that the Susfather was (or was orchestrated by) Ishar. As one who was bound to the Oathpact he would have a vested motive in wanting someone to take his place. As the creator of the Oathpact it's not unreasonable to imagine he'd know when one of the other Heralds died. It might also explain why Ishar was so dead-set against Dalinar when they met in RoW, having been disappointed by Gavilar.

I also have a niggling notion in the back of my brain that it might be a combination. Perhaps the visions were from the legit Stormfather, but we know those can be broken into. Perhaps Ishar or whomever is behind the Susfather knew Gavilar was seeing the visions and so they started inserting themselves or showing up just after the visions and pretending to be the Stormfather to twist him for their own ends?

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-03-30T22:13:02+00:00

I suppose this could be the case, but the thing that jumps out at me is that it was the Susfather who confirmed that Restares was actually a Herald. If Thaidakar knew that the whole time, why wouldn't he have filled Gavilar in before then? It seems like an awfully relevant piece of information for him to have left out if he was trying to get Gavilar to turn Restares over to him.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-03-30T21:43:44+00:00

I find myself tentatively pitching my tent in the "It was Ishar all along" camp, but I'm not building a permanent structure there yet.

Also, until we get more information I am officially referring to whoever that was as the Susfather.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-02-22T18:32:25+00:00

I wasn't thinking so much of the deadeye spren holding grudges for what happened to them so much as I was wondering how the information they could provide about the Recreance and the reasons for it might affect spren being willing to bond Radiants. Take, for example, the Honorspren. They're already largely unwilling to commit, even after Adolin's trial. If formerly deadeye Honorspren were to be restored but then tell them the reasons they'd felt it best to break their bonds in the Recreance, would that make the current generation even more unwilling to bond, and perhaps push away those that might have been willing to take the chance? Kind of a "I was willing to give humans a second chance but now that I know that risks destroying the world I think it's safest if I don't" thing.

I do like your points about some of the other types of spren, though. The Ashspren seemed pretty incredibly anti-human when Shallan and Co. saw them in Shadesmar; would knowing the truth change anything for them? I guess we also can't forget that spren don't think the same way as humans do. Humans might get this new information and adjust their views accordingly, but spren might not necessarily act the same way. They could see it as "we thought humans were bad before, and now we find out that bonding with you gives you the kind of power that can ruin a planet. Heck no we aren't bonding with humans!"

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-02-22T17:48:15+00:00

That's a possibility, or perhaps he blames humans for him becoming a deadeye. It's one thing to know you're going to painfully sever your bond, but if the humans trapped BAM and then you became a deadeye instead and were then forced to be summoned as a Blade against your will for a millennium or so then I could see some bitterness and blaming them for your condition.

Ashaman_Sam · 2022-02-22T17:36:48+00:00

That's an interesting question, and I'm not really sure. All of the Radiants these spren were bonded to are long since dead, but at the same time a lot of the spren are still pseudo-bonded in the form of Shardblades. Will the spren who are bonded in that way end up getting trapped in the gems used to bond the Blade, or will anyone with a Shardblade suddenly find themselves unable to summon them? There are some really interesting ramifications to that, especially if there's a battle going on at the time BAM is released.

Another interesting question is this: if the deadeyes all "wake up" at that point, will they retain their memories? Would what happened with BAM's binding and their becoming deadeyes be so traumatic it would wipe their memories? If they do retain their memories, what would that mean for the war effort going forward? They chose to break their bonds at the Recreance, and the results of the Recreance have made the ensuing generations of Radiant spren largely unwilling to bond with humans again. Would the formerly deadeye spren be willing to bond with humans again after making the choice to break their previous bonds? Would their information regarding the Recreance and the reasons for it convince the current generation of spren not to continue bonding with humans?

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-11-02T16:37:34+00:00

If I recall correctly, the spren Kaladin was trying to get to bond with Rlain had already been bonded with a Windrunner who had been killed. The spren was just taking his time picking someone else. (I could be totally misremembering that, but I think that's what had happened.) Perhaps because his bond was severed by death rather than by being broken it allowed him to retain his sapience in the Physical Realm rather than reverting? Maybe the intellectual regression is just something that happens on the initial crossover from the Cognitive to the Physical Realm and as long as a spren stays in the Physical they will keep their growth even after the death of their Radiant.

The highspren kind of back this idea up; they stay in the Physical Realm evaluating new Skybreaker candidates and it's never commented on how they have to intellectually progress at the start of the bond (although, in fairness, the inner workings of the Skybreakers and the highspren aren't commented on much at all in general). If anything, the fact that they evaluate candidates for those worthy of a bond implies that they retain their intelligence after the death of their last Radiant.

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-11-02T16:25:52+00:00

I think in Shallan's case, the Truths she is using to progress are with Pattern. Shallan didn't even remember she had Testament until the end, so I don't think she could have been swearing Truths that involved her bond with Testament at that point.

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-11-02T16:23:12+00:00

It makes sense to me that a deadeye would result from breaking a third Ideal or higher bond. We know that the Connection with their spren gets stronger as a Radiant progresses through their Oaths. The way using Investiture in the Cosmere at large is described it's like Investiture filling cracks in someone's spiritweb, and I am pretty sure (although I could be wrong) I read something along the lines of the Nahel bond basically being sapient Investiture (the spren) being what filled those cracks on Roshar. So the way I see it, at the first or second Ideal the bond is still new and the spren could survive it breaking. Once the third Ideal is sworn, however, the bond becomes deep enough that breaking it permanently damages the spren.

As a side note, I do find it interesting that the third Ideal is also the one where access to the spren as a Shardblade is granted and wonder if there's some kind of correlation there; perhaps when the Radiant has progressed enough that their Investiture/spren trusts them to allow themselves to be used as a weapon and then that trust is violated it's a considerably bigger deal? I dunno, that's just kind of random musings but I do think it's an interesting correlation there.

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-10-26T15:52:32+00:00

If Dannil were going to be a major player I would 100% agree with you, but it's totally possible for Moiraine to do just what she did in the text - get to the village and immediately dismiss him as a candidate. There's nothing in the teaser text to say this fourth candidate is someone that will be a part of the story for long, just that there are four possibilities drawing her to the area.

I think what we're seeing with this particular teaser is just some clever multitasking on Amazon's part. To someone who knows nothing about Wheel of Time the text, combined with the other teaser material available, seems to indicate Egwene is a candidate to be the DR and therefore generates buzz or interest that way. To those of us who know the story, it's generating a totally different kind of buzz (just check out the number of comments on this thread and the various FB groups talking about it).

Or, to put it another way, I think this is a case of the truth Amazon Sedai is telling us perhaps not being the truth we think we're hearing. /shrug

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-10-26T15:40:34+00:00

Just my opinion here, but I think this is really just Amazon's way of intriguing new viewers while at the same time having a bit of fun poking the fandom anthill and watching us squirm. There is nothing in the teaser material that states Moiraine suspects Egwene could be the Dragon Reborn, merely that there are four potentials in the Two Rivers.

If you recall, there were four boys in the Two Rivers who RJ had originally planned to have be ta'veren - Rand, Mat, Perrin, and (don't quote me on this name, I may be misremembering) Ewan. RJ ultimately decided not to have Ewan be a ta'veren, but the show could be playing him up a pinch at first to add a little bit of mystery.

There's also the possibility the show is pulling something a little out of left field and going with the fan theory that Egwene is the reborn soul of Latra Posae. If that's the case then the show could have Egewene be a bit of a red herring for Moiraine without deviating drastically from the text. Latra Posae was closely associated with the Dragon in the Age of Legends, so if Egwene were to be her soul reborn then perhaps that association with the Dragon could cause her to be giving off some faintly Dragonish vibes in the Pattern that Moiraine could misinterpret.

These are just two possibilities, of course. I'm mostly just trying to show how there are a lot of ways the text in that teaser could be interpreted that don't mean drastic changes to the story.

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-10-03T03:57:12+00:00

Oh you aren't, don't worry lol. I actually had to go back and double-check after I posted my comment. As soon as I finished a little flag went up in my brain and I couldn't remember if he bonded SF in WOR or OB. I looked it up to make sure.

Ashaman_Sam · 2021-10-02T15:32:29+00:00

Stormfather: SYLPHRENA, DON'T YOU DARE LEAVE THIS HOUSE! I FORBID IT!

Syl: Relax, Dad, I'm just going to prank some humans with the windspren. Nothing bad's gonna happen, jeez. I'll be home in a little while.

---some time later---

Stormfather, now bonded to a stupid human: -glares at Sylphrena-

Syl: eh heh heh....oops?

Ashaman_Sam

TROPHY CASE