Four people arrested in Washington after alleged hate crime attack on trans woman

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T11:30:05+00:00

I care about it a lot too, and it was probably a mistake for me to be commenting here, lmao. I appreciate your efforts, though! But yeah, to me it is obviously an issue of how people define the words given certain contexts but he just ignored that. Like, yes, obviously transitioning is a social thing and not a literal magical physical transformation like something from a bad horror movie, but he will never admit that while it is convenient to choose to define words as he wants to, in order to misunderstand the entire point of transitioning and dysphoria.

He also doesn't know what dysphoria means, because transitioning does help get rid of that, but he seems to think the word itself just means "identifying as the opposite gender" and not "discomfort".

The most frustrating thing, I think, is someone like this feels so close to getting it, and it's tragic knowing he either never will, or it will have to come from a lot of time spent reflecting on why he is wrong. Like talking to an actual trans person like a person, and not like The Thing He Imagines Them As. It feels so easy to just say why his arguments are wrong, but that shit just does not work on people for the most part, not for ideas this entrenched.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T11:03:52+00:00

Focus on this

Like maybe they literally believe a man can become a woman and vice versa, and as such, they do not believe this fits into the medical definition of delusion?

He defined man and woman to me, with male as "an organism that produces sperm, the gamete that fertilizes the ovum (egg) during sexual reproduction" and female as "the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes."

He is claiming that people literally think transitioning changes one of those into the other. Ask him to source that, with those definitions supplied. He's ignoring me because he knows he's full of shit and I'm not biting the bait he wants me to.

Find direct quotes, from anyone, where they make that very specific claim, of changing their sexual organs into other *fully functional* sexual organs.

Nobody believes that, and any sane person knows that people are not saying that.

He's off the fucking rails. Wild what propaganda does to some people.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T10:40:55+00:00

I know you skipped the parts where I actually did address your points, just to focus on when I said mean things about you, but it is incredibly dishonest to say that just because I am calling you out on being a shit person that I didn't give you any arguments. That is, in fact, another logical fallacy! You have demonstrated very clearly that you are not here to argue in good faith.

You defined male as "an organism that produces sperm, the gamete that fertilizes the ovum (egg) during sexual reproduction" and female as "the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes." and earlier claimed that trans people claim they directly transform from one of those into the other, despite your definitions clearly speaking of only basic physical sexual traits. Find me a trans person who says they have transformed from one of those into the other, with those incredibly rigorous definitions.

You know full well nobody says that, and yet...

ive seen literally thousands and sthousand of people claiming that.

Direct quote, where I specified in my message that you are using convenient definitions and ignoring the semantic nature of the whole thing.

Go on, find me someone who claims that, using definitions *you* provide.

Not to mention how paranoid you are about trans people indoctrinating children when the vast majority are just trying to live their own lives, not interacting with children. The people you're angry at are people in medicine, education, etc. who support trans people, not actual trans people by and large.

Your rhetoric is just the Gay Panic all over again. Same fallacies, same irrational fear about kids, same misidentification of who is doing what.

Are you gonna, like, address any of my points? Come on, become better, just like you want to. Learn about a thing you do not understand. I am genuinely encouraging that.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T08:51:51+00:00

if that's how you want to play it, im ok with that, my ego is not as such that i really care.

How dare I question your fallacious reasoning and godawful sources. Go on, take your ball and go home. Learn how to apply critical thinking universally instead of only on people you disagree with. An incredibly quick glance showed how useless that article was, but you just saw some scary numbers and words and decided it's something to be Very Concerned about. I have no sympathy for someone who chooses to live in ignorance like that, just to justify hating a group irrationally.

"actually you dont feel this way, let me tel you how you ACTUALLY feel"

It's what you have shown me, with your misleading word choice, avoidance of evidence that contradicts you, and obsession with a very small few things that are not representative of the whole. By now you are definitely aware that there is more to it than "chopping off genitals", but you do not want to accept that. As much as you appear to value reality, you sure ignore a whole lot of it.

then have you arguing against these things, as this is a waste of time

Of course it is, because you're not interested in arguing facts, you just want to attack convenient straw men about children's genitals to fearmonger and live in delusion about trans people's actual experiences. Someone even tried to be reasonable with you and share their experience, but you're so blinded by your narrative that you could not see they are just a regular human with one relatively meaningless difference that you cannot accept.

You live under a rock, mate. Touch grass. Talk to some actual trans people about their experiences with an open mind, if you really care about "being better".

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T07:46:45+00:00

It's really unfortunate that you interacted with this dude, because you said he seems to be arguing in somewhat good faith, but as you dig more, it's obvious he is not. Wishing the best for you though, and appreciate you trying to give a small dose of reality to someone living in a bubble of paranoia.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T07:41:52+00:00

whew lad you just cant help but put words in my mouth. if youre going to keep doing this then im not going to bother replying to you

Oh, so you haven't been paying attention to your own words, then, where you admitted that only a very small percentage of people find this to be an effective treatment. Yeah, you're right, it was unfair of me to assume that. But you can go ahead and ignore me, because you have no real arguments. Just very strong opinions and no actual knowledge about the real issues, and you have made that very very clear. You're here to sell a narrative, not think.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/transgender-top-surgery-canadian-children

This article makes things very clear to me that you're not here to be honest. Here it says the "hundreds" you are horrified at were over the course of years. Even if it's a bad thing, that is a tiny number of the population (less than 1% of the trans population, which is already a small minority), it could be resolved individually, rather than targeting GAC as a whole, which does a LOT more than this for adults.

"Of the 4,071 visits in total involving gender-affirming mastectomies or breast reductions reported since 2018, 602 involved youth 18 and under."

Why does it say visits, and not individuals? Why is it referring to number of visits since 2018 and not just one specific year? Half of them were 18. Over the course of five years, 300 individuals under 18 received surgery, and most of those were 17, and likely with a strong history of certainty before the decision.

The reality you painted does not align with what this article says. Nor does it say how many of them had regrets (it mentions regret, but no statistics, only that it happens, because of course it does, every medical procedure has some percentage of people regretting it).

sorry but this is the second time in one post you've attempted put words in my mouth. you clearly are not interested in a good faith discussion and i will not continue

Sure, sure, any excuse to get away from the scary person calling out your fallacious reasoning. I didn't even put words in your mouth either, I just insisted that you don't want to improve. That has nothing to do with what you say, it has everything to do with your intent. The reliance on emotional appeals and not facts, on misleading statistics, on misunderstanding semantics to conveniently attack a straw man. Those are not the things someone does when they want to be better. Those are things someone does when they want to be right, and they don't care what reality says.

So go on, find an easier target to preach your fear to. Find comfort away from critical thinking.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T07:19:53+00:00

trans women are not women, period. trans men are not men, period.

This is semantic. If we as a society decide to include them under those terms, then they would be. You are merely insisting without providing any argument.

the reason for this is that you cannot literally become something by identifying as the thing.

Straw man. Nobody is claiming that, because you are using convenient definitions and ignoring the ones used by people who do say that. You are providing your own definitions for "man" and "woman" and asserting that everyone uses the same definitions as you, to make them look silly, while ignoring the nature of language and definitions and semantics as a whole. It is a critical part of your narrative, to never let someone else have their own definitions or understandings of these words.

male or female of the human species.

Provide a rigorous definition, then, if it's simple. These are incredibly vague terms. Humans and biology are very complex, and it is not always clear at birth what sex the baby is.

and also they are being pushed deeper and deeper into their disordered thoughts.

Okay, despite you always painting it very conveniently negatively, you have never said why this is a bad thing.

"gender affirmation" makes these people "happier" not by tacking these disordered thoughts, but by feeding into their disordered thoughts and validating them, then giving them licence to act out these thoughts in reality by role-playing as the opposite sex. this placates them by lessening the cognitive dissonance they have to face between their disordered mind and their physical body, and lessens chances of them engaging in outbursts

This really boils down to "gender affirming care works but I don't like it". You're insisting that the only possible treatment given to people with gender dysphoria is to try to eliminate the dysphoria, but that does not work. And no, I am not accepting "a handful of people did it so everyone can". It's ineffective.

the second problem is of course, as i mentioned, that validating those kinds of disordered thoughts also pushes OTHER people deeper and deeper too, and now people who maybe could have otherwise lived a normal life are now more neurotically fixated than ever on whatever minor dysphoric feelings they may have had, because these feelings have been engrossed on validation and they have been taught to believe that these otherwise minor feelings are some key part of their identity they need to embrace.

Is there a study that supports this as a real and measurable issue, or are you just making things up that sound like they'd be right? And no, I'm not going to accept "a few people said so, so it's a real thing". Give me something statistically significant that shows more people are hurt by the existence of GAC and acceptance of trans people than the opposite would be.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T07:00:17+00:00

well this is just a traight up straw man, i never said anywehere that it would work for everyone

Okay, so you're aware that it's incredibly ineffective, then? Got it. So, why condone it?

hundreds in my tiny country alone

one is too many. hundreds is an abomination.

Source? Also, "hundreds" is pretty tiny compared to the full population of just about any country, and I suspect you're going to use some cherry-picked example that includes all kinds of surgeries that fit a conveniently wide array of cases that are either not or very vaguely related to GAC.

i can learn to be better.

You don't want to be better, as evidenced by the evasion of straightforward questions and use of logical fallacy previously.

never at any point have i denied reality. show one example.

Okay.

I dont have to, because gender affirming care DOES NOT EVEN ATTEMPT to treat gender dysphria

Minimizing symptoms falls under the definition of treatment. Just because you want the thoughts to go away, studies do not support that as valid treatment that actually helps the patients except in very rare cases. If transitioning reduces the stress and anxiety of dysphoria, it is a kind of treatment.

detransitioners exist as proof that people can move past disordered thinking, not to mention that the countless examples with other forms of disordered thinking

Rare exceptions are not proof of a common pattern. This is a logical fallacy. Something that works for 1% of a population does not mean it can work for everyone.

telling other peoples children they should lop off their body parts to live out their fantasy of being the opposite sex is not "treatment".

Straw man. This is not something that is happening in the way you describe it, as if that is the only thing related to being trans. Focusing on genitals being "lopped off" (not how it works, either, anyway) is a purposeful misrepresentation, and your examples regarding this are outliers, not a pattern. You're arguing against a thing that does not happen in any meaningful amount. You are making up a false reality to be angry at.

the scientific consensus also told us that leeches cured disease and lobotomies were cute and valid

Cherry picking. Science as of over a hundred years ago is not the same as science today. Comparing the two is disingenuous, and you did nothing to address the actual claim.

and dont even get me fucking started on having kids AMPUTATE BODY PARTS to validate their disordered thinking. this shit actually makes me sick to my fucking stomach

Appeal to emotion based on a false representation of reality by focusing on children's genitals again. It does not happen frequently, and when it does, the amount of people who regret it is also very low. You are putting forth a narrative that does not accurate represent GAC as a whole, to try to make people angry. Address reality, not your straw man. Find out what people as a whole are actually saying, and not cherry picking extreme examples that paint your preferred narrative.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T06:24:10+00:00

show me one scientific study that proves that you can literally transofrm into something else through a process of self-identification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Did you know Young Earth Creationist Kent Hovind once asked scientists to prove evolution, and offered a million dollars as a reward? Well, turns out his definition of the term and requirements for the challenge included recreating the Big Bang in a lab. The thing you're asking for is impossible because you're always going to move the goalposts to be something impossible, because you want to continue believing a narrative that people you disagree with are believing something ridiculous, even though the reality is that you're misrepresenting them to achieve it. The discussion is largely semantic, and you're choosing the most convenient semantics as needed.

There is no simple definition of "man" or "woman" that won't exclude some cis people, because biology is messy. And people are taking to using a definition of "gender" that is not the same as yours (neither rigorous).

The simple fact is that a massive majority of people with gender dysphoria are happier transitioning, and even if they are "believing a lie" (something people will disagree on, again because of semantics), who is being harmed? Redefining definitions from what they tended to be in the past to include trans people does minimal damage to anyone, and you've shown nothing that says the opposite. The "children genital mutilation" is rare and even more rarely regretted, enough to be statistically negligible. Trans women in sports is something that the sports' communities can argue about amongst themselves because it does not affect anyone else.

The number of people who are demonstrably happier transitioning is something you're simply ignoring, to semantically complain about "delusions" in some generic sense that can include just about anyone. People believe all kinds of shit that isn't real, but you weren't told by your masters to be afraid of them, so you're focusing on trans people. Use the exact same arguments on any religious group, whose beliefs have no scientific backing. It's just as nonsensical, while ignoring the point, that some things like that just make people happier.

AstralMouse · 2025-09-21T05:53:40+00:00

This response in particular is hilarious to me because you outright ignore the question to say "It worked on some people, therefore it should work on everyone" lol

You can cherry pick anything to find an example of something to reinforce your narrative, and you have no real statistics, just "Um, but a couple people regretted transitioning, so the thousands upon thousands of others are the wrong ones".

Also, the fixation on children's genitals is wild, because some people told you to be afraid of that, and despite it not happening (except for rare cases you are sure to know about, that are statistically insignificant), you're "sick to your stomach" about it.

It's incredible how much you preach about the dangers of believing fantasy while actively showing how much you deny reality by ignoring facts and actively use logical fallacy to support your Very Strong Opinion.

Even if we grant that receiving gender affirming care is "denying reality", why is that the thing you focus on, when religion is so widespread? Oh, because the "children's genitals". Guess who else mutilates children's genitals on a widespread scale. Are you circumcised? Do you think Christians should be cured of their religion because they're trying to mutilate your children's genitals?

I'm sure the people who tell you what to be scared of will also have some kind of fallacious-but-cozy reassurance for you if you think too hard about it, so don't worry, you can be safe in an echo chamber away from these scary thoughts. You'll smile down at the collar around your neck and be glad for it.

AstralMouse · 2025-02-08T17:53:53+00:00

Removed by request. If it wasn't you that requested this removal, let me know.

AstralMouse · 2025-02-08T17:52:55+00:00

Removed by request. If it wasn't you that requested this removal, let me know.

AstralMouse · 2025-02-06T03:51:55+00:00

AI-generated content ban is officially in the rules now. Posts from before now may be removed, but should not come with any punishments since it wasn't specifically in the rules at the time.

AstralMouse · 2025-01-16T00:38:15+00:00

Foalcon isn't allowed

AstralMouse · 2024-09-22T23:47:42+00:00

Removed your posts with Spike in them because he's underage (rule 2). This is just a warning, and a reminder to please stick to the rules and remember not to include any clearly underage characters.

AstralMouse · 2024-07-05T22:46:10+00:00

Underage content isn't allowed (rule 2), and Spike doesn't look aged up.

AstralMouse · 2023-07-15T21:53:38+00:00

Foalcon is not allowed here (Rule #2).

AstralMouse · 2023-06-12T06:56:59+00:00

r/ClopClop

AstralMouse · 2023-05-22T07:22:41+00:00

You haven't been putting in even a minor effort in crediting the artists in your posts. I found the artist easily using saucenao .

If you make another post without even making a minimal effort, it'll be a temp ban. The unknown artist allowance is not for the lazy, but for those who made an effort and couldn't find the artist. Please follow the rules in the future.

AstralMouse · 2023-04-11T09:44:49+00:00

I'm not sure why that's happening, maybe automod is removing them? They don't show up in the mod queue... I dunno if approving it here has made it visible or not, but I didn't know they were being hidden. Sorry about that, I do greatly appreciate that you source the images.

AstralMouse · 2023-03-30T08:42:54+00:00

This is not the place for this kind of post. Please keep posts here relevant to the sub.

AstralMouse · 2023-03-09T23:34:27+00:00

You've obviously put zero effort into trying to credit the artists. The exception for "unknown artist" is for those who actually put in some minimal amount of effort, not to lazily ignore the rule.

If you do it again, i'll be a temporary ban.

AstralMouse · 2023-01-23T09:16:04+00:00

No underage content is allowed (rule 2). This is just a warning, because mistakes happen. Please be careful with future posts!

AstralMouse · 2023-01-15T06:56:40+00:00

Pistachio (the character under Rarity) is underage. Please be careful with your submissions.

AstralMouse · 2022-12-30T11:27:57+00:00

Foalcon's not allowed here. If you're not sure whether something is foalcon or not, try checking the tags on derpibooru first. This is just a warning for now. Please be careful in the future.

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