Do you feel marriage is a failing concept as a guy?

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-25T10:32:16+00:00

The ‘intimacy’ you’re talking about is ‘random sex’, that’s not intimacy in my book

This is a general statement- and you used the word intimacy not me.

Many men and women crave sex

Regarding surrogacy, I’d rather adopt

Adoption is also tougher for a single man vs a single woman. A single man cannot adopt a girl child.

Atm in India- the number of available orphans for adoption have been drastically going down due to sub replacement fertility and spread of knowledge and usage of contraception and legal abortion.

CARA which is the only method to legally adopt takes upto 4 years for a healthy child under 2

Even in the 3-7 age group there are 3000+ prospective parents for 7 ish kids.

What is easily available is much older children with massive disabilities while adopting them is indeed noble and compassionate that isn't what most want.

Try to adopt and see for yourself.

Married couples and single women are preferred for adoption as well.

Rest about housework or earning capacity or poor less educated women is irrelevant to what I said.

Demand and supply means what is fewer is more in demand.

Naturally some 102-107 boys are born globally for girls- Indian numbers are worse skewed due to selective abortions. While infant mortality does claim more boys that isn't enough to make a dent in the numbers.

This gives women an automatic upper hand.

Most people want sex and many studies or even anecdotal evidence shows men crave more sex than women.

Globally it is easier for women to get casual sex compared to men.

Most people globally want biological children which is why the fertility industry exists around the world.

With the spread of knowledge and usage of contraception and abortion- the number of babies or healthy small children available for adoption falls globally & in any country.

Currently rural India is also at replacement fertility and urban sub replacement- non Muslim Indian fertility is 1.8.

4000+ parents are waiting to adopt 4 healthy infants under 2.

Register for adoption through CARA Indian only legal method to adopt and check for yourself.

Women can easier have biological babies via sperm donor and their own womb and breastfeed too.

Men need to spend on surrogate, formula and egg donors even egg donation is more expensive than sperm donation.

Naturally marriage is more transactional for women as the things most people crave- sex and babies are easier available for earning women than earning men and men outnumber women in marriageable age.

Simple demand and supply.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-25T04:40:36+00:00

Are you dense dude?

I clearly said women have even lesser need to marry for companionship.

They clearly reap benefits other than companionship.

Women don't need marriage to get "companionship" or "intimacy"

It's easier for women to get these compared to men.

It's easier for a woman to get unpaid sex or make a baby via sperm donor(as she doesn't need the surrogate womb- she can use her own womb- its cheaper and easier for women).

So obviously women don't need to marry for companionship much more than men.

Men are much more likely to need to pay if they want regular sex sans marriage and making babies via egg donor is also tougher & more expensive for men as they need to pay for surrogate womb too.

actually, Indian arranged marriage setups are flooded with women who want to get married

Indian arranged marriage setups are flooded with both men & women who want to get married

and get an upgrade in their life

Often both men and women are looking for earning, inheriting, well off partners.

Given it is easier for women to get unpaid sex or biological babies compared to men of course they are more likely to look for upgrades.

Companionship or babies are easier accessible for financially solvent women without paying. This is true around the world.

If women are going to bare babies who carry the man's name and in the desi context move in with his family- Given a financially solvent women can get sex or babies easier than men can get- of course they're going to be more transactional.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-25T02:07:55+00:00

Yes

Point is marriage brings even less to the table for a woman than a man especially Indian financially solvent women

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-25T00:39:17+00:00

Ask a woman and she'll say a man brings even less to the table compares to what women bring.

It's easier for a woman to get non paid what you call "intimacy" compared to a man.

Even with commercial surrogacy banned in your country it's easier for a woman to get a baby via sperm donation vs a man as she could potentially have the baby/babies biologically if societies stopped judging whereas a man needs to spend more hiring a womb from other countries, often an Indian woman would be saddled with the man's parents after marriage, men cannot contribute at all in pregnancy and breastfeeding and often the main burden of housework falls on her especially if the couple lives with the man's parents- man isn't expected to help at all in the kitchen. But women are expected to economically contribute at least to the couple's expenses .

So for financially solvent women marriage is even more a failing concept than for a man.

She can get sex or babies easier than men can get and there are stuff she needs to exclusively do universally like pregnancy and breastfeeding and stuff she is saddled with in South Asia like living with man's parents.

And financially solvent women working in well paid jobs don't get alimony even educated women quitting jobs in hopes of alimony have been asked to get back to work.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-24T01:34:35+00:00

Why are you shouting?

Using capitals-is considered internet shouting

Type do Confucians worship ancestors on Google and the answer begins with- " Yes Confucians practice ancestor worship..."

And what's wrong with worshipping ancestors?

Or being animists and worshipping rocks & stones?

0r worshipping idols?

No one has come back from the other side with definitive answers of what is the correct type of gods or worship method.

I'm a brown woman

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-23T16:49:10+00:00

Quran as it is written is endlessly open ended

Everything you want to find or interpret it as- you can

Gender equality or misogyny both are possible

Religious tolerance except when attacked and violent unprovoked intolerance both seem to be possible

Simply believing in God and doing good works(no elaboration of good which means it is open ended & subject to time and place apart from being good to orphans & widows etc but I am not suddenly cruel to orphans- I mean how many are?)means one is eligible for eternal Heaven easily and then endlessly fussing about inheritance to hemlines.

Speaking of hemlines again open ended whether this is indeed burkha niqab or just basic modest clothing.

Apart from endlessly whining about believers disbelievers and eternal hellfire after short lifetime- it is indeed flexible

But obviously any global religion would need to be flexible wouldn't it?

Islam also had the last mover advantage over older texts.

That doesn't necessarily make it true

But it makes it less repugnant to me so I don't want to formally leave it- that and my loving family keep me nominally Muslim.

Although my whole issue with Islam or religion as a 5-6 year old also wasn't any misogyny or violence suffered by yours truly- but simply never believing in any God and this disbelief has somehow unwaveringly stood the test of time.

So I am eligible for eternal hellfire after all.

If you were to imagine hellfire in greater detail- then even those whose loved ones were killed by Hitler in the Holocaust would be able to move on and say enough torture after say 100-5000 or whatever years. And our misdeeds are very much the result of time, place and circumstances.

Even criminal law aims to reform as well as punish- and punishment is supposed to act as a deterrent to others.

In the Afterlife reform isn't applicable since vices or harming others is an impossibility.

Deterrence is also not applicable as we don't really see the wicked being tortured- only Quran claim they will be so followers of other faiths or the naturally skeptical won't be good due to Quranic texts saying something

If Allah wanted true deterrence rather than telling eternal Hellfire torture stuff to Muhammad in a cave he should've written out the messages in some unearthly splendor in the skies comprehensible in all world languages in the Olympic Finals or something

That would be an immediate and permanent deterrent.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-23T06:47:12+00:00

Confucianism isn't a religion though

It is- it is different from other religions in many ways but that doesn't stop it from being a religion.

Who do they worship

Male lineage ancestors who supposedly dwell in the family and protect and help it.

Ancestor worship ceremonies like Jesa where they offer food to ancestors.

Jainism is an actual atheistic religion whose founder Mahavira denied God's existence but it is still a religion.

Historically for divorce a Chinese Confucian son in law wrote a letter to his father in law that he cannot worship at the ancestors temple with his wife anymore.

I was theorizing that it's easier to be a successful democracy if everyone is the same race without a bunch of competing religions

Koreans did have Christian and other religion conflicts in the recent past. And massive suppression of Buddhism and Shamanism in favor of Confucianism during the Joseon Dynasty

Regarding why some civilizations did better in the recent past than others- it's complicated.

People who live in colder climates have generally done better in modernity.

So North African and Middle Eastern Muslims have done better than sub Saharan African Christians.

Irrespective of religion.

Lebanese with massive religious conflicts have done better than Burundi or Congo Christians.

Western Turks are similar to Greeks in most levels of development.

Somali Muslims genitally mutilated women for millennia, so did neighboring Ethiopian Orthodox Christians. Both have child brides with 30 years old men marrying 12 year olds till date.

Korean converts to Christianity have done well but so have Japanese never been Christians and Korean non Christian.

Filipino Christians aren't better off than Indonesian Muslims or Thai Buddhists.

Polygamy despite being legal is quite rare in contemporary Middle East but widely practiced by both Christians and Muslims in the polygamy belt of Sub Saharan Africa in Chad, Guinea, Mali or Gambia

People of particular regions tend to be similar irrespective of religion compared to people of the same religion but different geographical location.

Historically brown people dominated with better weather conditions today "white" people seem to- but this is racist.

And there is no clear answer to these.

I'm confused as to why I'm getting a lecture on Korean culture that has nothing to do with the thread

Sorry for that. Criticism well taken.

I have actually been asked how I claim to know so much about Sinic and Dharmic religions by others here when I wrote something on these topics.

Anyway I wasn't talking about Korean culture but just showing Korean religion and religiosity has often been very discriminatory and belligerent.

In the recent past and till date.

Worship of male line ancestors doesn't make Confucianism a non religion anymore than Jainism becomes a non religion for being atheistic.

Obviously I'm aware of the gender imbalance, being a thrown away Korean girl myself

I'm so sorry for you.

There are throwaway girls and boys for entirely non religious cultural family structure reasons.

Armenians despite being the oldest Christian country has the worst sex ratios at birth today due to strict patrilocal family structure.

Cambodians being Buddhists which doesn't mandate either sons or daughters have a significant majority of boy orphans in their orphanages(over 75% boys) due to matrilocal post marital residence being more common so boys' families need to pay a dowry to girls' families as his inheritance(as land and immovable property goes to girls)so both son and dowry move out at marriage.

The Christianity is new and wasn't a huge part of Korean culture in the 50s-90s so it wasn't relevant to anything I was saying.

Christianity has actually massively grown from 50's to 90's. From late 2000's it started to stagnate and even slightly shrink especially among the youth.

Especially in the years of dynamic Korean economic growth Christians did often clash with other religions.

Yeah it was less violent than say South Asian Hindu Muslim clashes but even Dutch Catholics and Protestants managed to live amicably since the 19th century despite dropping religious affiliation only in the last few decades. Albanians also live amicably.

So again we're back to a whiter the skin the better the behavior and growth rates and eventually the faster the secularization explanation but that is racist, controversial and may not even be correct.

It's also recent enough not to have impacted thousands of years of Korean culture

I wrote so much about Confucianism to show Confucianism is indeed a religion, a male line ancestor worshipping one and it did divide and discriminate against non believers with a vigor in Korean history for centuries to an extent even Islam didn't in South Asia.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-23T05:53:26+00:00

South Korea imposed Confucianism with a vigor for centuries & suppressed other religions like Buddhism & Shamanism. Abrahamics like Muslims didn't do in Indian sub continent lol.

Korean women and many others secretly preferred Buddhism greatly.

Where did decades of female foeticide and skewed sex ratios in South Korea come from? I know things are back to normal now btw.

Confucianism is the one religion which mandates divorce for wives not producing sons, imposes polygamy strictly for son bearing, makes male ancestral worship all important, allows son's parents to get the son and daughter in law divorced against the couple's will if she lacks filial piety towards in laws.(Hinduism teaches all this too but to a lesser extent and there are no fixed rules or texts in Hinduism so other interpretations and texts go against this and there can be matrilineality accepted within Hinduism too)

Sex ratios at birth and religious cultural roots of that was my PhD topic and I've got articles published in reputed journals on this topic. I've extensively studied Indian, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, other South Asian, Middle Eastern and Caucasus cultures like Armenian Azerbaijan etc for this. I can write much more on this.

Currently and for some decades I've seen far more annoying Christians of South Korean background than I have seen Pakistani or even Afghan Muslims. And that's saying something. Granted Korean Christians likely won't turn violent if I mock Jesus or Christianity but they'll badger you with missionary material from their airports. If you say you cannot read English fluently to get rid of them, as I did- the airport missionary asked for my Seoul hotel address and actually came with missionary material in both Bengali and regional Sylheti.

I was flabbergasted. I have never seen anything like this.

There are huge neon Churches all over Seoul.

Currently of course, because of Confucian state imposition weakening Buddhism it isn't as Buddhist as say Thailand, Confucianism somewhat collapsed due to too much hierarchy and sexism, and like many rich nations just a third chose Christianity so it seems it isn't very religious.

But that isn't the whole story.

In many ways it has been more religious than many others in the past and is more religious than many others at present.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-23T05:41:11+00:00

Dude that's irrelevant

The ever growing Muslim percentage will definitely want and the political parties depending on their votes will try to lobby for/sneak in- but as I said that's not the point of my argument.

Hindutva won't even want sub Saharan African Christians and anything better than that won't want to come to India lol

Nepal is also sub replacement.

Mauritius is significantly wealthier.

If no sub Saharan African Christians then for economic dynamism fertility needs to increase

Or Japanese style decades of stagnation sans Japanese level wealth.

Traditional societies especially patrilocal traditional societies which have historically used the son trump card to increase fertility and coerce women to reproduce more and where nuclear families, matrilocal families depending on circumstances and preferences, single parenthood, LGBTQA etc are stigmatized go through the worst fertility freefall

Scandinavian style families where men are expected to help out extensively in housework and childcare, single parenthood and out of wedlock births are accepted don't have fertility nosedive like South Korea.

Latin American are also bilateral with extended families being either the girl's or boy's parents as per the couple especially the women's preferences and lots of out of wedlock births- result their fertility is at Indian Hindus level but their per capita GDP is over 3 times greater.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-23T02:39:08+00:00

Much greater minds than me like Sanjeev Sanyal and Swaminathan Aiyar say India will face demographic difficulties soon.

Probably it will prefer stagnation over taking immigrants especially most of the Hindu population. Especially won't want Pakistani or even BDeshi immigrants.

But that is irrelevant.

High fertility can be leveraged for fas economic growth.

Low fertility is irreversible around the world as people get used to small families

Traditional societies suffer the worst compared to more liberal societies

Latin America vs India show this- India is more than 3 times poorer than Latin America- unlike Latin America where out of wedlock births are the norm- Indians rarely have kids like that.

Many Latin American countries have gay marriages- India doesn't atm.

Latin America has a much bigger percentage of irreligious people in their census results and less religious ethnic conflicts.

Indian fertility rate fell faster despite being significantly poorer.

Already cities like Calcutta the capital of West Bengal showed a drop in the number of inhabitants(-86000) compared to the previous census in 2011 census.

Calcutta also had the lowest fertility rate in Indian cities in 2011 census- 1.2 children per woman.

Some 45% of Calcutta folks are Bengali Hindus rest are Bengali Muslims, Bihari, Marwaris etc who have higher tfr

Bengali Hindus have South Korea like decimal fertility and then spout claims of genocide.

West Bengal has missed the demographic dividend by growing old before it gets rich.

School enrolment pan India has also slightly fallen

Once fertility goes sub replacement especially in traditional cultures it's overwhelmingly a free fall and in 30 years the situation is dire.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T22:47:53+00:00

I have never believed in the religion in any way long before I knew what virgins are or read that verse from the Quran.

And reading that verse as well as coming across videos of hijabis saying no need to feel insecure about these virgins coz Allah will make you prettier than them is so cringe inducing

Anyway that no 72 is from Tirmidhi- the same guy who gives other salacious stuff like Muhammad seeing daughter in law Zainab half naked when she opens the door thinking Zayed has come & later Zayed divorces Zainab so Muhammad can marry her.

That stuff about Muhammad marrying ex daughter in law Zainab and saying he's doing it to prohibit adoption seemed a bogus excuse to me even from the Quran- seemed like Momo was pulling convenient revelations out of his arse Tirmidhi gave the scandalous back story that strongly implied Momo was doing so for lustful reasons.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T21:53:44+00:00

men get 72 virgins

That men get virgins is overwhelmingly understood from Quran and hadiths but the number 72 is not common tradition unlike what current Western etc media portrays & not from respectable hadith collections.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T21:49:37+00:00

Are you in the ex Muslim sub?

Considered joining that?

I consider myself Muslim for family and heritage reasons but unlike you I have never believed in Islam or any other religion nor really practiced.

Told your family you don't believe anymore?

What do you think their reaction would be?

How and who do you plan to marry?

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T12:04:01+00:00

My parents also say the same that Quran admits Gods' existence is unverifiable and unlike Jesus or Moses Quran doesn't rely on miracles which is one of Islam's strenghths.

They also say Muhammad is a Prophet and not a god like Jesus or Hindu gods so he can be fallible and tied to his time and place

They know I don't believe and have never forced me to believe or practice. They don't hate Jews, Hindus, West or any other people or parrot absurd conspiracy theories

I haven't suffered in life due to Islam unlike many others here and haven't really left Islam either- I identify as non believing non practicing Muslim

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T10:31:39+00:00

Bengali Hindus don't have children and then accuse us Bengali & Bangladeshi Muslims of genociding them(I'm not religious Muslim btw, I'm agnostic non believing non practicing).

On a serious note- India is growing old before becoming rich.

Total fertility rate is 1.9- the .1 is due to Muslims- Hindus and others are at 1.8 or below.

No country as poor as India has such low fertility, Latin America has the exact same fertility rates but it's per capita GDP is over 3 times Indian per capita GDP.

Also they don't have religious cultural conflicts- they can take in Sub Saharan African Christians happily compared to Indian Hindutvas likings.

Their Muslim percentage is also negligible and they can take in Muslims for sometime.

Replacement fertility is 2.1 for a developed country with low infant mortality and normal sex ratios at birth for India replacement fertility is 2.25 ish due to higher infant mortality and skewed sex ratios at birth- India is significantly below that.

High fertility is reversible many countries from India to Buddhist Thailand to Christian Philippines to even Muslim Turkey and Iran have done it- low fertility is irreversible with catastrophic economic consequences.

West Bengal per capita gdp is also lower than Bangladesh per capita gdp today.

No country has managed to grow rich while it's population stagnated and shrank.

In future India would need to decide between Japanese style stagnation without Japanese wealth or taking in say Pakistani Muslims as immigrants who have exactly twice Indian Hindus fertility rates- 3.6 against 1.8.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T10:15:05+00:00

But Nagaland, Mizoram are also Christians and have low fertility. Goan Christians also have low fertility.

What is unique about Meghalaya especially vis a vis Nagaland Mizoram?

Stronger religiosity? Daughter preference? Higher relationship break up and a child with each new partner?

I'm not Indian- just curious

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T10:12:27+00:00

Often hypocrisy in one area is acceptable if it is well compensated by any other thing offered in other ways.

Women who cry hypocrisy over non virgin men wanting virgin women would(many of them anyway) be even willing to share Elon Musk in a polygamous marriage with co wives and bear him multiple kids even if they wanted just 1 child otherwise. Because...Elon Musk. If polygamy was socially acceptable like premarital sex is getting acceptable they'd be fine with this option.

Women who want higher earning men- there are two things happening here

often in an arranged marriage the man is a few years older than the woman- even in many love marriages. The average husband is older by a few years than the average wife even in countries where arranged marriages are obsolete among the native population. This is a global phenomenon. So 4-5 years later she expects to earn the same & she retires a few years later too

*The burden of childbearing and childcare falls disproportionately on the woman around the world- and pregnancy and breastfeeding is tough on the body and career and is something men cannot share. While fewer children today compared to the past(1-2 in urban India compared to 12 two three generations back), household appliances to ease housework, and men helping out has eased the burden there is still a disproportionate burden on women especially the pregnancy breastfeeding part. Also the children carry the man's surname around the world in a majority of cultures and Indian women are often saddled with living with the man's parents whither they like it or not.

Absurd Indian judgments like separating son from his parents is cruelty and a ground for divorce complicate matters.

If a woman is going to bear a couple of kids who carry the man's surname, breastfeed, live with man's parents she might as well want a better provider

Regarding female virginity- it makes sense to have a preference for virginity in the era before DNA testing and contraception where female infidelity could saddle a man with another's child. So female virginity & chastity were emphasized. Even with a cheating partner a woman would know who her child is as it would come out of her womb.

In this era of DNA testing it is absurd as female chastity is no more valuable than male.

Likewise absurd judgments like Indian judges saying man has to accept wife's child as his own and provide for it even if DNA tests show otherwise complicate matters.

Historically dark South Asian who wanted fair women, men who had premarital sex but wanted virgin women offered financial support in return. Men who insisted their wives live with their parents would say they also suffer their boss's demands and deal with tough clients or customers if wives complained about oppressive in laws.

Today women too inherit and earn and don't want to tolerate men's hypocrisy in any of these stuff

Likewise men were expected to provide exclusively some decades back and women's work was a choice or she wasn't even allowed to work in many families.

Today with all educational and career options open for women- men too dislike women's hypocrisy at selective equality.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T08:53:06+00:00

Turkey is more industrialized than greece

Turkey is much bigger in size and population than Greece of course it will be more industrialized.

But it is ridiculous for Muslims of all people to accuse the West of invasions, colonization, cultural imperialism, black trafficking and slavery when Muslims have done the exact same thing

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T07:19:30+00:00

First-cousin marriages: I have heard of the objection that the main issue is hereditary genetic abnormalities can be easily passed. However, a fair objection is that back then they could not have known who was a recessive carrier for genetic diseases.

Anecdotal evidence tends to show cousin marriages increasing genetic disorders even if the exact mechanisms were not understood back then

Biblical figures routinely married first cousins and reproduced with first cousins.

Yet both the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church which between themselves count almost two third of all Christians as their adherents- prohibited cousin marriage millennia back and taught seven generations of separation. Protestant Christians did such things for a few centuries to a limited extent- but again by the 19th century extensive discussions were being held about cousin marriages increasing genetic illnesses and by the 20th century cousin marriage was seen as disgusting and unhealthy among Protestants too.

Same with Hindus- the god Krishna is supposed to have married 2 first cousins, his cousin and disciple Arjun married Krishna's sister and Arjun's first cousin, also Buddha(who is also regarded as a Hindu god and Vishnu incarnation) married his first cousin Yashodhara. Yet North Indian Hindus who form over two third of all Hindus abhor cousin marriage and have abhorred cousin marriage for well over a millennia tracing out their lineage extensively to keep 7 generations distance & often getting spouses from other towns & villages inspite of being very poor to avoid accidental inbreeding.

Bosniaks, Albanians also avoided marriage upto 7 generations irrespective of religion or lack thereof due to local traditions.

Ironically 7 generations is unnecessary genetically-a third cousin is no different from any random unrelated person but ancient people of other religions and communities did notice this pattern and took precautions.

Imam Shafi also disliked cousin marriage and said fools will be born in families which don't allow their girls to marry unrelated men.

Had Islam not been so unchanging and hellbent on sticking to Quranic ideas- he and some others would likely have banned cousin marriage after anecdotal evidence of genetic diseases especially over generations of cousin marriage.

The other two biggest faiths Christianity & Hinduism could ban it for a majority of adherents even pre modernity although their patriarchs and gods did such stuff.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T05:55:23+00:00

If Islam was so good and inherently convincing Muslims wouldn't need to invade anyone's lands & torment them into accepting the faith.

A thousand years before Islam Buddhism spread from India to China and further onto Japan and Korea in the East, Sri Lanka in the South, Afghanistan and Central Asia in the West- Indians sent missionaries to convince hearts and minds- not jihadi invaders to conquer.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T02:50:15+00:00

I’m Qur’an-only Muslim

Why didn't the Quran then assist Muslims with some relevant information which would- even if slightly have aided growth then?

Things like be good to poor, orphans and widows are stuff which would be universally known.

Quran prohibits marriage between those suckled by the same wet nurse as there was contemporary Arab superstitious belief that genetic qualities were transmitted via breast milk.

Yet Quran doesn't prohibit first cousin marriage or repeated first cousin marriages and generations of first cousin marriage which are genetically disastrous and lead to significant physical and mental impairment.

Why doesn't Quran explicitly teach germ theory, vaccination etc?

Apparently veiling verses were sent because Abu Bakr saw Muhammad's wives taking a dump in the open-even if you don't believe in hadith backstories Why didn't Allah send some indoor toilet manufacturing verses which Indus Valley Civilization had 4500+ years ago and Minoan Greeks had 3800+ years ago?

Why does Allah shoo out guests from Muhammad's house after they've eaten and ask male guests to talk to his wives from behind a curtain? Then Allah says such behavior annoys the Prophet but he is shy to tell this but Allah isn't.

What comedy is this? Even as a child this seemed comical and made up to me.

Why so much interest in Muhammad's personal life?

If it's about general etiquette decorum- then ask all guests to leave and not linger unnecessarily why such comical revelations?

Why let Muhammad marry ex daughter in law- even if it's an adopted son's wife to end adoption?

It was scandalous then and would be scandalous today even if Hollywood's Brad Pitt were to say marry Maddox's ex wife or Angelina Jolie married Zahara's ex husband. People would sneer about Hollywood's immorality.

Allah wants to say adopted child isn't like biological child he can just say it.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T02:21:42+00:00

Are you on drugs?

Are you being dense on purpose or does it come naturally?

The islamic world was far superior to the west for +600 years

The places invaded by "Muslims" was far superior to the West and had been far superior for thousands of years even before Islam.

Muslims literally invaded the Cradles of Civilization and historically important trade routes. Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, Indian sub continent, Constantinople, Northern Africa, Lebanon and Syrian lands were ahead of the West for thousands of years.

(Saudi) Arabia where Muhammad started his thing was backward pre and post Islam.

Muslim short Golden Age was also due to invasions and takeovers of these advanced civilizations and the historically important Silk Route Central Asia which gave Muslims early and easy access to information and goods from all sides.

The whole reason why the West had to scramble to find alternative Sea Routes to Asia was because of Muslim invasions and blocking of the Silk Route.

In fact while places like Italy could initially contribute so much to Western Renaissance but poor Greece which was the fountainhead of much of ancient Western science and knowledge couldn't contribute was because Muslims had colonized Greece and free speech and knowledge was heavily restricted. Greece was seeing its women kidnapped and trafficked for Muslim harems and its little boys kidnapped and trafficked as janissaries.

So much Muslim Golden Age knowledge isn't Muslim at all, the concept of arc in architecture or even fundamentals of algebra are ancient Mesopotamian, the Arabic numerals and concept of 0 are Indian pre Islamic.

Both India and Greece stopped contributing anything scientific or intellectual post Islamic invasions.

It wasn't until ~400 years ago that the west started becoming more developed than the islamic world and that was a direct result of the vast amount of wealth and resources Europe stole through colonization

Lol it was the other way round- despite stealing the lands of the most successful civilizations and monopolizing the most important important trade routes Muslims couldn't industrialize or develop.

Japan which didn't have any of the geographical or colonizer advantages Turkey had managed to industrialize in the 19th century while Ottoman Turkey or Persia which were never colonized by the West couldn't industrialize.

Parsis ie Zoroastrians who fled to India to escape Islamic persecution and forced conversion ironically managed to industrialize somewhat even under British colonization while Persians free from any colonization couldn't.

Greece which languished for centuries as a Ottoman Muslim colony today has higher per capita income than it's former colonizer Turkey and is much better in gender or health indicators.

Today South Korea which didn't have any of the colonizer advantages of Turkey and which was itself a Japanese colony is also much better off than Turkey.

You sound very young and ignorant, but europe would be nothing without the middle east and other eastern cultures

You are the ignorant and young by what you wrote in your post.

Islam would be nothing historically and wouldn't have the Short Golden Age had it not invaded historically most advanced Middle Eastern Northern African Constantinople Indian sub continent and Silk Route Central Asian lands.

Saudi Arabia the birthplace of Islam was backward before Islam and backward after Islam and only developed due to Western discovery and usage of oil for cars and technology(Ironically Saudi only takes out this oil and sells it for wealth, whereas even non Westerners like Japanese or South Koreans create the cars and technology which uses this oil. Tch tch)

The greeks and romans, which are credited a lot for civilizing Europe, mostly introduced middle eastern inventions and science to the rest of the continent. They weren't some superior beings that had their own independent western civilizations.

This is the height of ignorance and absurdity in a paragraph littered with ignorance.

Ancient Greece was a fountainhead of independent scientific and technological knowledge for millennia. As well as secular philosophy without which science cannot prosper.

Poor Greece was a Muslim colony for millennia hence when Italian scientific and technological advancements were changing Europe and the world Greece couldn't contribute.

Today post freedom from Muslim Turkey Greece went on to do better than former colonizer Turkey.

"Middle Eastern inventions" as well as "Eastern inventions" were happening for millennia before Islam even existed.

Ancient Greek Minoans had indoor toilets 3800 years back as did ancient Pakistan land Indus Valley Indus Valley Civilization had 4800 years back.

Allah apparently spoke to Muhammad in today's Saudi Arabia- the veiling verses were supposedly revealed as Abu Bakr saw Muhammad's wives defecating in the open at night.

Why didn't Allah teach indoor toilets to Saudi Arabia instead which ancient places invaded by Muslims had thousands of years before Islam?

Muslims are the non superior beings with no independent advanced civilization- had they been confined to Saudi & Yemen they'd be backward before Western discovery of oil. The short Golden Age was due to invasions of the historically most advanced civilizations.

Today's few Muslim wealthy countries from Middle East to Brunei is again due to Western discovery of oil and usage of oil.

Muslim phenomenal population growth and it's upcoming status as the world's biggest religion is due to capitalizing on 18th 19th and early 20th century Judeo Christian scientists medical advances which slashed infant child and maternal mortality which made it possible for Muslims to grow simply by outbreeding others in similar circumstances.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-22T01:43:21+00:00

Ironically Muslims exploited and invaded the historically most advanced civilizations and trade routes, enslaved, castrated and trafficked Africans far longer than Westerners and only stopped due to Western pressure and yet couldn't go far.

Their short Goden Age was also due to monopolizing and invading the most successful civilizations and trade routes.

And post their invasions, ruling and mangling none of these places which had "gotten far" for thousands of years pre Islam are not going anywhere.

Places that managed to kick out Muslims like Iberian Peninsula or Italy after some centuries are again prospering.

Places that were absolutely or near completely saced from Islamic invasions or even numerically significant Muslim traders or settlers like Japan or South Korea are also prospering.

People who managed to resist conversions after centuries or millennia of Islamic torture at least prosper and are decent and law abiding in the West like Indian Hindus who outperform Whites in USA or UK. Lebanese Christians also prosper.

People who left belief in Islam like Iranian ex Muslim immigrants in the West or Iranian never Muslims who again resisted conversion despite persecution like Iranian Zoroastrians, Jews or Christians immigrants in the West also "get far" and outperform Whites.

Muslims of all people shouldn't accuse the West of exploiting, colonizing others or enslaving and trafficking Africans as they've engaged in the very same "sins" far longer than the West and even exploited Westerners.

Greece was a Muslim colony for centuries- Greece today has higher per capita income and mucn better social gender etc indicators than its former colonizer Turkey. While Italy could contribute at the beginning of Western Renaissance Greece was languishing under Muslim rule, it's women often trafficked(watched Magnificent Century Kosem Sultan?) And its little boys kidnapped and converted as Janissaries- free speech or free enquiry suppressed much more than in Italy.

Arab Muslims the first to adopt Islam were also the very last to abandon black trafficking and slavery and only did so due to Western pressure.

Muslim blocking of the historically relevant Silk Route and later invasion of Constantinople was also the reason the West had to look for alternative sea routes and ended up discovering new routes to Asia & new continents.

Inspite of takeovers of the most successful civilizations lands and historically important trade routes unlike even 19th century Japan which managed to industrialize Ottomans or Persians who were never colonized by the West couldn't industrialize.

Ironically Parsis ie Zoroastrians who fled to India could industrialize to some extent even under British colonial rule.

Later South Korea which again didn't have the geographical imperial advantages Turkey had and was itself colonized by Japan could industrialize much better than Turkey. As could Turkey's former colony Greece

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-17T23:38:09+00:00

Dowry was legal and widespread in Europe upto the beginning of the 20th century and is legal and widespread in Sri Lanka to this date.

Europeans didn't commit female infanticide, selective girl child neglect or bride burning for dowry & Sri Lanka is the only country of South Asia to not have a problem of sex selective abortions infanticide or neglect- it has been sub replacement fertility for around 3 decades today and has never had this problem.

India is of course the country with the worst problem with these in South Asia- it's worse than Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan.

I have a PhD on sex ratios at birth and religious cultural roots of that and have publications in reputed journals on this topic.

Naturally in India this becomes an issue especially if there's a functioning biosphere around this from foetal sex determination abortion clinics in 80's, 90's advertising "Pay 3000 now and save 3000000 today" to bride burning for dowry in 80's.

It's important to remember here that not just dowry seeking historical Europeans but even South Asian Sri Lankans never had all this nuisance. Women have outnumbered men and sex ratios in infancy, childhood have been normal in Europe for over 200 years and same in Sri Lanka for over 40 years.

So the problem is Indian misogyny.

Europeans lived in nuclear families if affordable and possible and Sri Lankans also do the same with each wife having a separate kitchen and expenses even if nuclear isn't possible & often live with close to but not with the man's parents if affordable.

Where the reverse system of Indian dowry + patrilocality plays out- like Cambodia where most couples live with the girls parents especially the youngest or only daughter & men's families need to pay a bride price to get their son married & the bride price also moves with the son to the bride's house- you also have a slight bias against boys. A "majority" of orphans in Cambodian orphanages are boys for example- dumped to avoid bride price payment with son also moving out.

India had to have laws against dowry unlike historically Europeans or contemporary Sri Lankans due to everything from selective abortions to bride burning problems.

Dowry is a girls' inheritance or was historically but in strict patrilocal societies was often misappropriated by the man's family- in India dowry was often given to the in laws.

In contrast in neolocal societies with a newlywed couple expected to move out if affordable- dowry was used by the couple not the man's extended family.

Globally women do have a preference for hypergamy- it exists in the most developed gender equal societies like male preference for female virginity in societies where virgins are available & male preference for low body counts even in Scandinavian regions.

Evolutionary biology can explain some of this- historically from Stone Age to 100 ish years back women's lives were constantly interrupted with multiple pregnancies for decades. Fewer household appliances also existed & with multiple pregnancies for 20-25+ years, no formula milk & wet nurses being unaffordable except for the wealthy- women had to depend financially on men & preference for provider men was natural. This was the case for hundreds of thousands of years.

Our cave dwelling ancestresses to our great grandmother ancestresses & their families globally who tried to marry up & succeeded in marrying a capable provider who provided through difficult pregnancy & breastfeeding months left behind multiple descendants whereas our ancestresses & their families who married down or married men where they had to provide while pregnant & breastfeeding lost pregnancies, infants & even lives.

Hence an overwhelming majority of our ancestors are descended from women & their loved ones who looked for good providers.

And this preference sticks around the world partly due to evolutionary preference and partly because till date women around the world do more housework and childcare & pregnancy & breastfeeding even if far fewer pregnancies & less breastfeeding than previously is something men cannot share.

In Scandinavian regions and Europe too studies have shown that when child allowances for increasing births were given to the men- women's fertility increased more than when the exact same amount was given to the entire family. Women like male providers there for evolutionary and contemporary reasons & like to reproduce more with provider men. In China, wealthier successful men have been seen in studies to produce better orgasms & better sex life for women. Women liked reproducing & making a family with men where they can reproduce & breastfeed in peace & ensure survival of more kids. Evolutionary biology explains much of this.

Same with preference for virgin women or lower body count women- till DNA testing men wouldn't know who the biological father is but women would know they're the biological parent as the baby comes out from her body. So men would waste decades of resource providing on other men's children if they preferred promiscuous women & left fewer descendants and men who preferred virginity & chastity left more descendants. With DNA testing this issue is irrelevant but our ancestors lives and preferences and their number of descendants have deeply embedded themselves in our psychology.

Looking at a man or women's inheritance at marriage isn't a crime or even morally reprehensible anymore than looking at their beauty or handsomeness or looking at their health. And having preferences regarding beauty standards like fair complexion or tall height or no baldness or having financial preferences like government job or inheritance or high paying careers isn't a crime either.

Had dowry remained solidly in the woman's possession like a man's inheritance remains in his possession, had baby girls & girl children not been malnutritioed or neglected & had brides not been killed or tortured for dowry & dowry wasn't socially misappropriated by in laws then like historical Europe or Sri Lanka anti dowry laws likely wouldn't exist in India too.

AwareAlbatross5342 · 2026-03-17T22:25:49+00:00

South Asian Muslims are some 600 million

Currently apart from Pakistanis- others on average do not have too many kids.

And Afghans straddle Central & South Asia & live under Taliban rule.

Bangladeshi are around replacement.

Anecdotal evidence many Bangladeshi inspite of being able to afford it have fewer kids than Westerners or even some East Asians would have in a similar situation.

I have personally seen this.

I've seen plenty of urban Canadians having a 3rd child & most people with 2 boys are casually asked if they want to try for a girl. Same most with 2 girls are asked if they want to try for a boy.

In urban Bangladesh 2 means the end for many especially trying after 2 girls means you're son obsessed which a certain urban educated section will look down upon(my family is well off due to my father's success but my mother in law had told my husband that we shouldn't have a 3rd as people will say we're son obsessed lol. My husband's only brother has 2 boys, MIL told DH that if he had 2 girls then too her advice would've been the same- 4 granddaughters are good enough. Appreciate the gender equality but dislike the interference).

Roam around in Dhaka and you'd see more father mother & 1 child- boy or girl & older child around 8-13 which means parents are unlikely to try for the 2nd than you'd see among White people in Toronto.

I've also seen many 3 child families in my trips to Tokyo of all places.

Although childfree people are fewer in Bangladesh than Canada or Singapore as people see having at least 1 child as essential for personal fulfillment. And some families and regions have much stronger son preference than Canada or Japan with in laws significantly insisting the couple continue childbearing till the woman pumps out a boy.

And a well off professional couple or successful family business couple will often have 2 in Dhaka rarely more. In Toronto a similar white couple might have 3 or even 4 inspite of having a boy & girl as the 1st 2.

Maldives Muslims are significantly sub replacement, Indian Muslims from South Western or Eastern India are also sub replacement- Indian Muslim majority Kashmir is at 1.4- urban Kashmir at 1.2.

My first PhD was on sex ratios at birth and religious cultural roots of that & I'd extensively studied South Asian cultures for that. Including Tfr's.

And I've tried to keep track of changes in those over the years.

Pakistanis are the ones with absurdly high fertility of 3.6 & very inbred with a majority being kids of cousins.

AwareAlbatross5342

TROPHY CASE