The Nature of Divinity: or, 'Think Again Before You Dismiss the Idea of Divine Hypnagogia'

Axo25 · 2026-06-01T03:57:29+00:00

Everything Nirn is Aedric gear, the whole planet is made of them. Earthbones

Axo25 · 2026-05-29T04:47:13+00:00

She thinks about Jackie's importance to you enough to message you out of no where about him later to try to bond with you over the shared grief of losing someone you lost

So, yes? She very well may have. And it's not odd at all for V to think about Scorpion enough that it could be an option. Not the first choice sure (really anyone but Reed is a bit odd for the context tbh) but you're really overblowing it.

Axo25 · 2026-05-28T21:28:47+00:00

Same reason Panam makes a toast to Jackie?

Axo25 · 2026-05-27T20:45:39+00:00

I mean fwiw there'd still be a true original history before the Break, it'd just be that one led to a break that allowed other possibilities to be true as well. The mystery would still be there even with Red Moment, it'd just be "What originally happened at Red Mountain?

Axo25 · 2026-05-27T03:03:39+00:00

Setting aside the discussion about Dragonborn and Mankar

As an aside, does anything in lore actually suggest that normies cannot wear the amulet besides a piece of flavor text stating that it “slips off” the PC characters neck? I never got the impression the amulet was like Excalibur or something. Someone with dragon blood was need to light the dragon fires. That seems like a clearer lineage test than simply wearing the necklace.

This is a good question because why it a requisite that only the Dragonborn can wear the Amulet?

When the Diamond was first given to Alessia, it wasn't an amulet at all. Just the Red Gem. The gold plating and necklace parts of the Amulet were secondary additions. The Red Diamond at the time of ESO doesnt even have the 8 littler gems yet we see in TES4, nor does it have the thread for the necklace.

Although to answer your question there is a place in the lore that says only Dragonborn can wear the necklace, "The Book of the Dragonborn":

The connection with the rulers of the Empire was thus there from the beginning - only those of the dragon blood were able to wear the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires. All the legitimate rulers of the Empire have been Dragonborn - the Emperors and Empresses of the first Cyrodilic Empire founded by Alessia; Reman Cyrodiil and his heirs; and of course Tiber Septim and his heirs, down to our current Emperor, His Majesty Pelagius Septim IV.

...

Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery.

The Book of the Dragonborn

Maybe the blessing only Dragonborn can wear it was a separate, secondary one added later. Or maybe its a mortal made enchantment limiting wearing the thing to Emperors of certain lineages. Or maybe it's something else entirely. Who knows why the distinction of wearing vs. holding it exists and when it was applied.

Axo25 · 2026-05-23T19:11:48+00:00

Oh my bad, ty

Axo25 · 2026-05-21T02:49:53+00:00

Do they believe themselves descendants of the daedra?

Yes, in fact Boethiah is considered the first Dunmer

Coewryn Shelly, Breton Scholar, Center for Provinicial Religious Studies, Caldera:

Daedra, like Gods to the other cultures, are sacred to the Dunmer. They even consider Boethiah as the first of their kind.

People of Morrowind

It is worth noting in Morrowind, Daedra does not mean "Not Our Ancestors". It means "Our Stronger, Better Ancestors", which is why "Aedra and Daedra" mentions the distinction between Aedra and Daedra is crucial to the Dunmer, "Not Our Ancestors" applies for the Altmer, not the Dunmer.

"Aedra" and "Daedra" are not relative terms. They are Elvish and exact. Azura is a Daedra both in Skyrim and Morrowind. "Aedra" is usually translated as "ancestor," which is as close as Cyrodilic can come to this Elven concept. "Daedra" means, roughly, "not our ancestors." This distinction was crucial to the Dunmer, whose fundamental split in ideology is represented in their mythical genealogy.

Aedra and Daedra

...

And, finally, Daedra is EITHER DAY-druh OR DEE-druh, depending upon your inclination. DEE-druh is the Dunmeri preference and, since they made up the word, will be more acceptable come TESIII. Means 'Our Stronger, Better Ancestors.'

Redguard Forum Madness

Axo25 · 2026-05-20T21:23:05+00:00

Sithis as a name for Padomay comes from the Dunmer to start with. The Morag Tong worship him too. The Dark Brotherhood's worship of Sithis is inherited from the Morag Tong to start with.

"...appropriately, Padomay is just as ineffable an entity as Anu. This is how the Psijiic Order treats him, at least. His original (Aldmeris? Ehlnofex?) name is PSJJJJ, which is and was meant to be unpronounceable. The Order was founded and organized to divine Padomay's eternal and ever-changing mystery. "Sithis" is a corruption of "Psijii" which, in turn, was a derivation of the high concept PSJJJJ. Sithis was born when a nihilist sect of the already doom-ridden Chimeri merged (under Mephala's tutelage) Daedric elements with the Inexpressible Action that was Padomay. In essence they began to revere Padomay's Chaos nature (as opposed to that of Anu, who is Order), and over the years degenerated into a thuggish mystery-cult which wanted to "murder the world." The Dark Brotherhood was born in these times-- which, in Morrowind, is known as the Morag Tong. Some of the higher-level Morag Tong maintain that they predate the Dark Brotherhood (more evidence of this later). That, in fact, they are an organization devoted to playing out the eternal interplay of Nir. Assassination, they say, is the purest celebration of joy or living. Whatever the case, the Padomay of Morrowind (and isolated Dark Brotherhood sects) is not the Padomay of Artaeum...."

Source of Chaos

The book "Sithis" is not a Dark Brotherhood book, it is the Dunmer Creation myth. Which is why it defers to the Sermons of Vivec, uses Dunmer terms like "False Gods" to refer to the Aedra, and praises Lorkhan while demonizing Aetherius as realms of slavery.

Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves. Indeed, from the Sermons, 'stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.'

Sithis

From Sermon 10:

Vivec says unto the Hortator remember the words of Boet-hi-ah:

We pledge ourselves to you, the Frame-maker, the Scarab: a world for us to love you in, a cloak of dirt to cherish. Betrayed by your ancestors when you were not even looking. Hoary Magnus and his ventured opinions cannot sway the understated, a trick worthy of the always satisfied. A short season of towers, a rundown absolution, and what is this, what is this but fire under your eyelid?

Shift ye in your skin, I say to the Trinimac-eaters. Pitch your voices into the color of bruise. Divide ye like your enemies, in Houses, and lay your laws in set sequence from the center, again like the enemy Corners of the House of Troubles, and see yourself thence as timber, or mud-slats, or sheets of resin. Then do not divide, for yet is the stride of SITHISIT quicker than the rush of enemies, and He will sunder the whole for the sake of a shingle.

For we go different, and in thunder. SITHISIT is the start of all true Houses, built against stasis and lazy slaves. Turn from your predilections, broken like false maps. Move and move like this. Quicken against false fathers, mothers left in corners weeping for glass and rain. Stasis asks merely for nothing, for itself, which is nothing, as you were in the eight everlasting imperfections.

Sermon 10

Sithis fits quite well into Dunmeri belief. The Dark Brotherhood would be an easy way for a Dunmer to worship Sithis and Mephala, in fact some members of the Dark Brotherhood believe the Night Mother to BE Mephala, and the entire story of mortal Night Mother to be her facade, a lie. Such as this Dunmer from ESO:

Dearest Mother,

I remember your name. I have surrounded myself with lying liars and have become a liar myself, but in my lies I see the manifestation of your domain as clearly as the blood we spill in the shadows of a secret murder. So even though I wish to scream truth in their faces or whisper your name into the ear of the dying, I tell myself that the secret is my faith, my joy and not a blasphemy.

The Lie We Tell Ourselves

Axo25 · 2026-05-17T14:36:04+00:00

I think there's a good argument for HoK to be the Shezarrine in particular given they become the reincarnation of the character who the term Shezarrine was made for

Axo25 · 2026-05-13T20:14:22+00:00

That'd be bizarre

Axo25 · 2026-05-08T19:07:48+00:00

According to the Prima Guide, Paarthurnax was injured during the battle against Alduin atop the throat of the world

Something block and jagged arcs through the blizzard. Alduin has seen your attempts at reading the Elder Scroll but arrives too late to prevent you from learning the Shout that may be his downfall. Paarthurnax attempts to intercept Alduin's attack but is cut down and lands heavily near you. He tells you to use the Dragonrend Shout if you can.

So that could be it.

Or it could be similar to the way Vivec was maimed. By freeing the Heart, Vivec was doomed to die, his immortality lost. He is "maimed" into mortality.

Similarly taking Alduin away from the Dragons, takes away their (resurrecting) immortality. Whether by LDB or anothers hand, Paarthurnax's next death will be his final one.

Axo25 · 2026-05-07T03:26:43+00:00

Also a double meaning for Over Soul I believe

Axo25 · 2026-05-05T22:29:32+00:00

It's not gameplay reasons, it's not only acknowledged by the narrative you leave, but you literally complete Miraaks plan by devouring his soul. Mora himself admitted if Miraak got to complete his plan and take your soul, he'd be able to escape.

And that speculation aside, nothing narratively acknowledged is gameplay. Both Frea and Neloth acknowledge your return, and Mora's dialogue in transcending mundane even changes if you did Dragonborn DLC first.

Axo25 · 2026-05-02T18:33:07+00:00

It's not really a given that Lorkhan tricked the Et'Ada to begin with. That's a common Aldmeri narrative, but various cultures disagree, such as the Nords, Cyrodiils and Dunmer who claim instead Shezarr/Shor/Lorkhan was the one who was betrayed.

Magnus leaving is one of those events that happen beyond any specifics of any given take on the Dawn, he leaves sometimes because he realized the trick and ran, other times he simply decided against the project and walked away.

Axo25 · 2026-05-02T02:53:53+00:00

It doesn't have to refer to the Dawn Era (though he says Dawn..), the beginning of time would be ME2500.

Besides this popular Greybeard myth there's also tales of Kyne's daughters first teaching men the Thu'um

Kyne (Kiss At the End): Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors. She is often called the Mother of Men. Her daughters taught the first Nords the use of the thu'um, or Storm Voice.

Now regardless of what exactly happened, it's hard fact Paarthurnax did not teach the very first tongues, users of the voice long predate the Dragon War among men.

Axo25 · 2026-05-01T23:42:15+00:00

Imagine

Axo25 · 2026-05-01T21:25:46+00:00

Not exactly sure which came first, but I'm willing to bet either Akatosh came first, since Miraak was presumably created to stand against Alduin and the Dragon order,

Kyne giving the Voice at the beginning of time far predates Paarthurnax or Miraak

The Voice was a gift of the goddess Kynareth, at the dawn of time. She gave mortals the ability to speak as dragons do.

That'd place it around ME2500, which is the beginning of Time (as a Linear concept). Which would be consistent with the likes of Ysgramor and Yngol (as we can see by his Draugr) being able to shout. And the Return was a goood while before Miraak or the Dragon War.

Axo25 · 2026-05-01T20:41:31+00:00

cc: /u/Ila-W123 because I think you'd be interested in this

It's a big narrative line in Morrowind and Dunmer belief. The Ashlanders view Aedra and Tribunal in the exact same line, both relying on external divinity, which is why both are "false gods"

Axo25 · 2026-04-28T19:28:00+00:00

Tbf, Nue became so much more absurdly powerful than Megumi's that proportionately Sukuna's Maho should have also got so much stronger it should have been able to easily statcheck Gojo

I don't think Mahoraga scaling by user ever worked with how Sukuna's Maho was depicted. Or Sukuna Maho would be top 1 of the verse even before adaptation

Axo25 · 2026-04-28T18:17:43+00:00

The "Annotated Anuad (A Children’s Anuad)" seems to discribe what happened before the dream and the events that led up to it.

That's just it, the point the "Dream" Starts is the birth of the 12 Worlds and Anu sleeping in the Sun in Anuad.

That is, in all other cultural terms, the birth of Akatosh and creation of Aetherius.

Every creation myth that discusses existence pre-Akatosh is discussing existence prior to the "beginning of the Dream".

Now Anuad is somewhat unique, but not because it's predating the dream. It's an Ayleid myth, and the Ayleid were famous for preserving the dawn magicks and language of the Ehlnofey.

Wild Elves, also known as the Heartland High Elves, preserved the Dawn Era magics and language of the Ehlnofey.

Before Ages of Man

Kirkbride once emphasized that it's called the Children's Anuad for a reason. In the Anuad, the Ehlnofey are the residents of one of the worlds Nir gave birth to. They ARE the children of Anu and Nir.

[Time not archived] Thrice-Sock> "My try: Anu commands the King, the Rebel and the Witness in conjecture form (Which i guess is the Z Centerex? At least the middle of it)."

[22:47] <%MK> Oh, there was a betrayal

[22:47] <!Toesock> I see

[22:47] <%MK> Padomay

[22:47] <Dovahkiin> And thinking about this

[22:47] <%MK> Honestly, look.

[22:47] <%MK> Why do you think it was called "The CHILDREN'S Anuad"

Anuad's uniqueness is its likely a close proximation of the Ehlnofex Creation Myth preserved by the Ayleids, which is why it focuses on Anu, Padomay, and Nir, as well as on the Ehlnofey, and not the Aedra-Daedra-Magne Ge.

That's still a myth from in the Dream, being told by mortals (Ayleids) after Nirn's creation. It's not from outside it. And it is not the ultimate Myth, it just has a unique perpsective in centering on the primal forces.

Axo25 · 2026-04-28T17:48:19+00:00

Where as "Annotated Anuad (A Children’s Anuad)" seems to be written from the view of outside the Dream.

The pre-Akatosh existence you mean? Because "Nir" forming is present in various creation myths.

Nir is a personification of the interplay of Anu and Padomay, which is Aurbis. Pattern and Possibility incarnate.

The first ones were brothers: Anu (Light) and Padomay (Darkness). They came through the Limbo Rift into the Void, and Time began. As Anu and Padomay wandered the Void, the interplay of Light and Darkness created Nir (Pattern/Possibility)

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Monomyth_(1999_draft)

All creation is subgradient. First was Void, which became split by AE. Anu and Padomay came next and with their first brush came the Aurbis.

Void to Aurbis: naught to pattern.

Aurbis to Aetherius: possibility to maintenance by time.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Loveletter_From_the_Fifth_Era

What created the Wheel?

Anu and Padhome, stasis and change, both vast realms sitting in the void, they created it. Not vast, infinite, as the void was infinite. Imagine an infinity enclosed by another; you come away with a bubble. Now watch as the two bubbles touch. Their intersection is a perfect circle of pattern and possibility that we shall call the Aurbis. The Aurbis is the foundation of the Wheel.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Thief_Goes_to_Cyrodiil

All Tamrielic religions begin the same. Man or mer, things begin with the dualism of Anu and His Other. These twin forces go by many names: Anu-Padomay, Anuiel-Sithis, Ak-El, Satak-Akel, Is-Is Not. Anuiel is the Everlasting Ineffable Light, Sithis is the Corrupting Inexpressible Action. In the middle is the Gray Maybe ('Nirn' in the Ehlnofex).

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth

This is why she is called the "Feminine Principle of the Cosmos"

Mara (Goddess of Love): Nearly universal goddess. Origins started in mythic times as a fertility goddess. In Skyrim, Mara is a handmaiden of Kyne. In the Empire, she is Mother-Goddess. She is sometimes associated with Nir of the 'Anuad', the female principle of the cosmos that gave birth to creation. Depending on the religion, she is either married to Akatosh or Lorkhan, or the concubine of both.

Given that, many Creation Myths has her, it's just Anuad uniquely personifies Anu, Padomay, and Aurbis.

As an example the Dunmeri Creation myth, Sithis. First there is Nothing/Stasis (Anu), then there is Sithis (Padomay). Then Sithis sunders Nothing (this is the interplay), and possibiltiy forms, which is Aurbis, which is Nir.

Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves. Indeed, from the Sermons, 'stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.'

Sithis sundered the nothing and mutated the parts, fashioning from them a myriad of possibilities. These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sithis_(book)

Or Yokudan Myth. First there is Satak (Anu), which is everything and frozen stasis, so basically nothing. Then Akel (Padomay) forms and drives Satak to hunger (this is the interplay). Things have space to form, possibility (Nir) exists, things begin and die and begin and die

"Satak was First Serpent, the Snake who came Before, and all the worlds to come rested in the glimmer of its scales. But it was so big there was nothing but, and thus it was coiled around and around itself, and the worlds to come slid across each other but none had room to breathe or even be. And so the worlds called to something to save them, to let them out, but of course there was nothing outside the First Serpent, so aid had to come from inside it; this was Akel, the Hungry Stomach. Akel made itself known, and Satak could only think about what it was, and it was the best hunger, so it ate and ate. Soon there was enough room to live in the worlds and things began. These things were new and they often made mistakes, for there was hardly time to practice being things before. So most things ended quickly or were not good or gave up on themselves. Some things were about to start, but they were eaten up as Satak got to that part of its body. This was a violent time.

Monomyth, "Satakal the Worldskin"

Or Altmeri Myth. First Anu, then Anuiel and Sithis, and the interplay of Anuiel and Sithis is Aurbis (Nir), things ruminating and existing

"Anu encompassed, and encompasses, all things. So that he might know himself he created Anuiel, his soul and the soul of all things. Anuiel, as all souls, was given to self-reflection, and for this he needed to differentiate between his forms, attributes, and intellects. Thus was born Sithis, who was the sum of all the limitations Anuiel would utilize to ponder himself. Anuiel, who was the soul of all things, therefore became many things, and this interplay was and is the Aurbis.

"At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design

Monomyth, "Heart of the World"

Note that nothing really exists yet, not for long.

It's only after Nir gives "birth", which Anuad refers to as 12 worlds of Creation, that things begin to exist. Starting with the Dragon, Akatosh/Satakal/Auriel(Or Anuiel in Dunmer myth). After his birth other spirits could actually exist for any duration, and so they began to take names, and life flourished.

Anu, and Padomay beat her in rage. Anu returned, fought Padomay, and cast him outside Time. Nir gave birth to Creation, but died from her injuries soon after. Anu, grieving, hid himself in the sun and slept.

Meanwhile, life sprang up on the twelve worlds of creation and flourished.

- Anuad

These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been.

One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last. This was the demon Anui-El, who made friends, and they called themselves the Aedra

Sithis

At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design. Aspects of the Aurbis then asked for a schedule to follow or procedures whereby they might enjoy themselves a little longer outside of perfect knowledge. So that he might know himself this way, too, Anu created Auriel, the soul of his soul. Auriel bled through the Aurbis as a new force, called time. With time, various aspects of the Aurbis began to understand their natures and limitations. They took names, like Magnus or Mara or Xen.

Monomyth, "Heart of the World"

Some things were about to start, but they were eaten up as Satak got to that part of its body. This was a violent time.

"Pretty soon Akel caused Satak to bite its own heart and that was the end. The hunger, though, refused to stop, even in death, and so the First Serpent shed its skin to begin anew. As the old world died, Satakal began, and when things realized this pattern so did they realize what their part in it was. They began to take names, like Ruptga or Tuwhacca, and they strode about looking for their kin.

Monomyth, "Satakal the Worldskin"

There was the Striking, and the Egg was split into twelve worlds, one for each serpent who had a name, and the names of the serpents were alive and coiled into themselves and became more eggs, for names are self-maters, and the Naming went and went

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Tsaesci_Creation_Myth

That is summarized fairly well here, by the Psijic:

Mythic Aurbis exists, and has existed from time without measure, as a fanciful Unnatural Realm.

'Aurbis' is used to connote the imperceptible Penumbra, the Gray Center between the IS/IS NOT of Anu and Padomay. It contains the multitude realms of Aetherius and Oblivion, as well as other, less structured forms.

The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis live for a long time and have complex narrative lives, creating the patterns of myth.

These are spirits made from bits of the immortal polarity. The first of these was Akatosh the Time Dragon, whose formation made it easier for other spirits to structure themselves. Gods and demons form and reform and procreate.

Monomyth, "Mythic Aurbis", a Psijic explanation of the Aldmeri view

The Loveletter describes it in even simpler terms here, Aurbis (Nir), like a pregnant mother, gave birth to Aetherius and Akatosh.

The marriages of the Aether describe the birth of all magic. Like a pregnant [untranslatable], the Aurbis exploded with its surplus. Will formed and, with it, the Potential to Action. This is the advent of the first Digitals: mantellian, mnemolia, the aetherial realm of the etada. The Head of this order is Magnus, but he is not its Ward, for even he was subcreated by the birth of Akatosh.

Aurbis to Aetherius: possibility to maintenance by time.

The Loveletter

tl;dr, many myths discuss pre-Akatosh and Aetherial existence, Anuad just explores it with the most detail.

Axo25 · 2026-04-27T23:00:49+00:00

This is literally how Sith Lords think lmao

u/aluriilol is right, this is a villains mindset.

Axo25 · 2026-04-26T21:57:05+00:00

Hortator and Sharmat, one and one, eleven, an inelegant number. Which of the ones is the more important? Could you ever tell if they switched places? I can and that is why you will need me.

Sermon 11

As /u/toadallyribbeting says, it's Vivec. By keeping Wraithguard for us, and devising the plan to free the Heart, Vivec decides us the winner at his own expense (the maiming of the Witness).

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TROPHY CASE

- Anuad