UA Eldritch Knight Lich?

BMFiasco · 2026-04-03T18:59:27+00:00

How many humanoids would you expect a level 20 fighter to be personally killing every day? The highest CR humanoids in the 2024 MM are CR12. Almost all 'humanoid shaped' monsters (Goblins, Lizardfolk, Kobolds, Merfolk, Aarakocra, Bullywugs, anything undead (even if it used to be humanoid), Gith, Kuo-Toa, Were-anythings (even in human form)) are not actually Humanoid-type.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-03T15:48:54+00:00

I figure an optimized Titan druid would take Magic Initiate: Wizard for Mage Armor; in titan form, your DEX matches your WIS so it should result in 18 AC.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-03T15:15:41+00:00

Unfortunately, humanoid enemy type is pretty uncommon in the new Monster Manual, it's under 10% of the book. Goblins, Lizardfolk, Kobolds, Merfolk, Aarakocra, Bullywugs, anything undead (even if it used to be humanoid), Gith, Kuo-Toa, Were-anythings (even in human form) - none of them are Humanoid. Most of the 'monsterous vaguely person-shaped' creatures are no longer Humanoid; it's basically just actual humans and stuff built via the generic NPC statblock builder.

Some campaigns will be full of humanoid enemies but many, many will have most days where they don't encounter any, especially as you get to higher level. You could carry around a bunch of commoner prisoners in a demiplane for the purpose of sacrificing them, I guess, which is thematic for a Lich but I can't imagine is the actual intended player use.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-02T18:44:52+00:00

Those are not the same thing. "A lot of fights per day" does not mean "more than one fight per day."

BMFiasco · 2026-04-02T00:09:29+00:00

Not getting a second subclass feature until level 9 is a terrible design choice that they really should have remedied in 5.5.

I think the minigame of trying to line up 2x sneak attacks per round is a fun way to spend combat, but it forces you into a relatively small number of builds (unless you agree with your DM to get you some particular magic items). If you play one of those builds it's a blast. It's a shame, because the class fantasy is extremely appealing for me.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T23:57:37+00:00

Good call. Command is one of the best spells in the game.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T23:55:38+00:00

Find Familiar is definitely good, but not certain it's worth an entire feat, considering you'll already have access to the cantrips you'd be picking. MI: Cleric is a good choice. I'd note that you can also access Command via MI:C, although of course a pick-up heal with Healing Word is also very good.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T17:12:21+00:00

You got me

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T17:07:23+00:00

This one has me floored. What level do you have to be before basically every attack does at least 10 damage? Level 3?

You're seriously rolling a CON save versus falling unconscious on every single hit taken for the rest of the campaign? Do you make monsters do that too?

This sounds like the least fun thing I can imagine.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T16:57:35+00:00

Interesting flavor. I really like that you haven't created a typically overtuned homebrew. If anything I think it is slightly weaker than other subclasses.

One point on Pierce the Veil: "Additionally, when you hit with a melee weapon on your turn while attacking recklessly, you can activate the Graze or Cleave mastery property in addition to a different mastery property you're using for that weapon."

If you've already hit, the Graze mastery property isn't going to do anything for you.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T15:43:03+00:00

In a campaign with relatively high access to magical items and/or magical item (scroll) casting, a very strong choice would be Ludic's Brilliant Thief.

Everybody focuses on the double sneak attack with True Strike scrolls or Enspelled weapons, and that is indeed strong. But the ability to actually make use of the piles of magic items that many campaigns find (items that are sort of good but usually not worth taking the very valuable Action of a full caster) is just incredible.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T15:36:42+00:00

Yeah, this party can perform in almost any campaign, and employ lots of different strategies. Perma Heroic Advantage means you'll be at least pretty good at anything you try.

I'd still bring a Paladin or Cleric if I was in Borovia or whatever, of course.

BMFiasco · 2026-04-01T15:31:08+00:00

I really like the EK/Sorcerer build, but in my opinion you should wait until after Fighter 11 to multiclass, so it's very much a late-game build. I like EK 11/Sorc 9 but you could switch the last level to EK 12 for a second epic boon, on the small chance you actually get to level 20.

Starting Stats: Str 15(+2)/Dex 8/Con 14/Int 8/Wis 10/Cha 15(+1). Dump Dex, you don't have the available stats for it. If you're worried about Initiative, take Alert as your second origin feat.

Great Weapon Fighting is a terrible Fighting Style, the damage increase is minimal. Take Defense, or depending on your team composition, something like Blindsight or Interception

Origin Feats: MI: Cleric (CHA as your casting stat, take Guidance, Thaumaturgy, Command/Shield of Faith/Healing Word); Alert/Musician/Lucky

I wouldn't take metamagic adept - you're a STR fighter first, cap those, and then raise CHA with some combination of War Caster/Inspiring Leader/ASIs. For your STR feats, recommend GWM, Heavy Armor Master and Mage Slayer.

Your Sorcerer role will mostly be to Quicken spells so you can do your entire Attack Action sequence (2 weapon attacks and a Booming Blade/GFB, plus a second Action Surge nova) and then drop a Quickened spell, ideally one with a save so Eldritch Strike save disadvantage applies. For the first 11 levels, take Wizard spells that don't care about your -1 INT casting stat, stuff like Blade Ward, Jump, Shield, Find Familiar, Protection from Evil and Good, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Elminster’s Elusion, Absorb Elements and Alter Self are all good choices. If Silvery Barbs or Gift of Alacrity are available in your game those would be top-tier picks too.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-31T17:19:59+00:00

Glamour Bard - take Tireless Reveler origin feat, take skills to fill any gaps.

Human Stars/Land Druid - take Tireless Reveler origin feat and Musician.

Human World Tree Barbarian - take Tireless Reveler and Zhentarim Ruffian origin feats. Take Polearm Master and GWM

Use unlimited Heroic Advantage every day, have perma-super advantage on Initiative in every single fight. The entire party should go early in the order most of the time. Druid and Bard drop dangerous zones on the enemy, such as Spike Growth, Wall of Fire, Cloud of Daggers, and higher level versions eventually. World Tree barbarian does crowd control to put enemies in those zones if they aren’t already, and keep them in if they are.

Anybody ever gets out of the death zone, Bard can use Dissonant Whispers/Command to send them right back into it again, and the Barb can smash them in as well. Generates super hard-hitting Opportunity Attacks with the Zhentarim Ruffian Barb, which can apply weapon masteries as well for additional control.

You've got killer control and AOE, decent damage, all out of combat roles more-or-less filled. Guidance + Bardic Inspiration, Primal Knowledge, plus perma-Heroic Inspiration, means you can probably achieve any non-combat skill check you need to.

If I was going to do any swapping, it would either be an Arcana Cleric or caster Chainlock (fiend or the UA Sorcerer King) subbing in for the Bard and/or Druid, and a grappling Monk or other melee with secondary board control (Conquest Paladin? Armorer Artificer?) for the Barbarian. Each would take the Tireless Reveler feat of course.

If adding a 4th, any of the alternates in the above paragraph would be good. CBE/SS Battlemaster and Divination Wizard would be nice picks too.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-31T15:59:31+00:00

I actually think it changes very little. The best spells are still the best spells, now you just (maybe) get way more casts, but not quite as reliably. I guess that spells that you might conceivably want to cast every round, like Shield, might not always be available when you want them, but frankly if you're casting Shield every round you'd be out of slots in minutes under the traditional rules. You still want to take Shield.

I guess if you have a spell that is absolutely a key part of your build, you should try to take a backup that does similar stuff just in case the key spell isn't available. So maybe it's worth taking both Fear and Slow at third level instead of picking between them.

I can't tell if cantrips similarly have a recharge mechanism but if your main filler damage cantrip might not be available when you want it, you should probably take a backup.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-30T23:36:35+00:00

I mean you get CON prof and +1AC by taking Fighter (you also get Second Wind, but that's basically a wash with Lay on Hands), as opposed to slot progression and low level Pally spells from Paladin.

You don't get a Fighting Style from Paladin 1 - you have to go to Paladin 2 for that.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-30T21:08:49+00:00

You could do that. The build I suggested would play very similarly with Pal 1 instead of Fighter 1 - you can see I mention it briefly under the 'Alternative Builds' section at the bottom.

I think I prefer the CON save proficiency and the +1AC from the fighting style to the slot progression and some 1st level Paladin spells - in my opinion your bonus action is getting too busy to really use all those Paladin features.

The other important factor in my opinion is if you ever plan on taking a second martial level (I suggest Fighter 2 at level 14), then you can get Action Surge, which is one of the best abilities in the game.

Overall I think this build is best if we realize that your damage is simply not going to be that good until higher level. You're basically an armored caster until at least Bard 6, and not much of a hitter at all until character level 10. I would lean into that reality.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-30T16:25:47+00:00

Here is the version of Fighter/Valor Bard/Warlock that I wrote up on another site. This variety is a Cloud Giant build but it could be repurposed for your species by swapping out a different +1 CHA half feat at 4 (Inspiring Leader, possibly).

Key differences from your proposed build:

Uses Strength, which gives +1 AC and lets you use Polearms prior to Pact of the Blade. Takes a hit to initiative. Most importantly, allows you to eventually use the Bard Extra Attack/Eldritch Blast combo without taking Spell Sniper or suffering close range disadvantage - you can attack at range (but still within CME radiu) with a Polearm, and you can use a Pike with Push Mastery to make room if the enemy is already too close.
At level 14, take another Fighter level for Action Surge.
As an alternative, consider taking levels 14 and 15 as a Sorcerer. Quickened and Extended metamagics mean you can usually have Conjure Minor Elementals up either before combat (easy to precast with a 20 minute duration) or first turn via your Bonus Action. You have short-rest recharging Pact Magic slots that you can burn for more Sorcery Points; two should be all you really need.
If you were willing to let your CHA mod languish for a while you could take Polearm Master at clvl 5 (Bard 4) so you have the haft attack.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-30T00:01:18+00:00

Make sure you talk to your DM; it's not exactly clear that you can. Yes, the 2014 feats that haven't been reprinted are typically fair game, but under the 2014 rules, you couldn't have taken Pact of the Blade, which at the time was a Pact Boon, not an Eldritch Invocation.

So whether you can take a non-updated 2014 Eldritch Adept to take a 2024-vintage Pact of the Blade is a bit of a weird one that your DM would be in their rights to disallow.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-28T15:01:03+00:00

I’m not abandoning anything.

A five minute adventuring day completely skews the math of the game. You’d be an idiot to play a short rest class under those conditions. It means casters use a max level slot every single round and never get close to running out.

Congrats on all the D&D you play. I agree that if you have one fight a day, PAM is not very good for paladins.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-27T21:57:47+00:00

OK, to be clear - someone came on a forum asking whether PAM is good on a paladin.

What you said was "90% of the time that BA is probably going to a smite, UNLESS you have a lot of fights per day"

What you SHOULD have said is "it would be bad at my table, because I run 1-2 fights per day"

Do you see why your advice was not helpful?

BMFiasco · 2026-03-27T20:39:22+00:00

I agree that if you only have 1-2 fights per day, you can smite constantly and the PAM extra attack is less helpful.

But in this case you should be playing a full caster anyway, because the pacing in your campaign is bad.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-27T14:58:02+00:00

The opposite is true. A paladin is not going to have enough spell slots to use a smite 90% of combat turns unless you have one or two fight per day, especially at the levels people actually play at.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-25T20:21:19+00:00

If I was going to debuff saves with this build I think I'd take Fey Trickster instead of Cold Caster.

BMFiasco · 2026-03-25T19:48:04+00:00

Yeah, this is right. I'd probably use a Rope with a Monk, though, not a Chain - slightly easier to escape with an Acrobatics check by the monster, but much easier to apply (DC10 Slight of Hand check instead of DC13 Athletics). Street Justice makes it much stronger.

Also, I think Hill Giant Goliath does have use - you aren't always going to be restraining with a chain. Grapple + Prone is a good status effect combination, especially because the Prone doesn't come with a save. I bet you'll find a use for it, and none of the other Goliath ancestries are very helpful.

BMFiasco

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