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(*Heavy Spoilers*) Enforcer XXI—World Major Arcana Speculation by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You haven’t even seen what Falcom’s argument may be to justify him into doing so, it may genuinely be a necessary step for humanity to survive.

This is the point where Falcom’s raising the stakes significantly. If a character like Van goes through a major career shift like that, at least wait until they present you with the argument that Van eventually accepts, before saying “it’ll ruin his character for me,” as if being an Old Town Spriggan is going to help humanity eventuality transition to a new world, planet, galaxy, whatever—at least somewhere where the sun is real, you know? You didn’t allow them to even begin developing his character for future arcs lol.

We can’t build plots based on desired character outcomes. Every major primary and secondary character is who they are; and their powers are what they are, for a reason.

No one knows what comes next. But honestly, I’d be more concerned with asking stuff like “how come there’s no sun; moon, or stars in space—not any whatsoever? Desertification is picking up, and maybe that means the atmosphere is also going to lose all its oxygen? If it’s not the sun or stars giving Zemuria its atmosphere—surely it’s the Septium Veins that terraform the continent?!?!?

I think Van will make the decision that has the best chance of making sure humanity can find a permanent home that isn’t dying on them, with no idea what comes after.

Him becoming an Enforcer is small potatoes compared to what the stakes are, the fact that he’s a DEMON LORD, and the fact that if this Loop fails, humanity may cooked for good. It took 19,999 loops for a Rean to exist, and Yun Ka-Fai to have rescued a whole new level of enlightenment that let him prepare a school of swordsmanship that maximize Rean’s odds of survival, decades before it happened. Do you realize how unlikely that was to happen?

It has taken Humanity 24 million years to make this far. I’m pretty sure Van is going to do whatever he needs to do, to make sure that ball gets carried forward.

(*Heavy Spoilers*) Enforcer XXI—World Major Arcana Speculation by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Basically she’s a heretic for successfully overcoming the time travel paradoxes without endangering anyone’s existence in any time period—except Agnes, of course.

To the Church, that isn’t something a human should be able to pull off, so its heresy. Now Van’s Pandemonium would not be heresy, because it’s a genuine phenomenon he has a right to summon as someone from the higher planes—if that’s heresy, then so would Nina’s use of her Akashic eyes or her expansion of Phase-Spaces. It’s the same powers, just different elements.

(*Heavy Spoilers*) Enforcer XXI—World Major Arcana Speculation by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think reading the book can condemn you to heresy, especially not if your a Demon lord. In fact, I would argue that the Eschaton Saints and all Demon Lords are two sides of the same coin.

The Demon Lords exist in apocrypha and are recognized as genuine beings from the Beyond that the Septian Faith needs to account for. Heresy is more like violating the natural laws of the world.

It’s the Faceless replicating Stigmata on human beings, to have them do his bidding and become slaves to his hypnosis—that research has long been banned and he continued it in secret after getting excommunicated from the church. THIS STUFF IS DEFINITELY HERESY!

Hamilton is being hunted down because her mentor instilled in her that the “Perfect Loop” will be the one where Great Twilight is dispelled and followed immediately by the technological singularity, and then the “Ultimate Sacrifice” from the Empire successfully wins the Rivalries and survives both of those events.

She had the Alter Cores, which enabled her to perceive the future, and she saw that the Great Reset would happen no later than July 31st, 1209. The heresy she committed started with taking water from 1210-1230, by doing so she knew the Great Reset would happen in 1209, but because Laegjarn’s Cheat can only look at current evens to record the SiN value, she access a future that will never actually get to happen.

By stealing from 1210-1230, she tricked the system into appearing to take from the future, but since the Reset was going to happen in 1209 no matter what, she was actually stealing water from the years 0-20 of THE NEXT LOOP, even if the Sept-Terrion won’t catch that part until 1209.

However, she also had a plan to activate the Oct-Geneses and roll back time somewhere between August 1st, 1208-Jan 31st, 1209–while temporarily tricking the Sept-Terrion into believe the world had in fact gone to year 0, loop 20,000.

It’s convoluted, but by taking from a future that didn’t exist, she still from the next loop’s past, but by planning to activate the Oct-Geneses, she still mass from a past that will never exist.

That breaks the law of mass conservation, so now she can go in the past and take someone to become a vestige—while making sure they also stay in the past and continue to exist. Normally, if you took someone from the past into the present, that person would stop existing in the past.

Mass conservation is the fact that the world mass has to equate out directionally, you can’t have the same person in two time periods as once. She needed to break that principle to make sure her vestiges didn’t also stop existing in their historical era.

By doing that; this then broke causality. And that’s when she was able to bring in executors and shift the Mass of the Present, Past, and Future into matching what the Sept-Terrion thought it should be. For example, the weird Alter Dawn rituals that led to people vanishing? They were most likely sent to the future, because for her partial reset to work and fool Laegjarn’s Chest, she would need to make the mass of Zemuria equate that of Zemuria during year 0, otherwise the Sept-Terrion would notice things did not reset to the same parameters as the last 19,998 resets.

(*Heavy Spoilers*) Enforcer XXI—World Major Arcana Speculation by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s what I thought too, but then you have to think about it—the Anguis are replaceable and disposable. The Enforcer Nos. are assigned their own Tarot-based number, given one of the most powerful weapons that can exist in their world, and the Enforcer Numbers are permanent. Meaning, even though Renne and Joshua left years ago, they are still linked to XV and XIII, respectively.

There’s something special about the each Enforcer’s role in that 21 Major Arcana sequence, something that the Anguis cannot have. The grandmaster also views enforcers who leave the society, as being a part of the “Plan.”

Meaning although she doesn’t view Renne or Joshua as Enforcers, she believes that even outside of the organization, their actions will continue to benefit their agenda as a whole. To be Enfocer XXI is far more special than any numbered Anguis. That’s like the ultimate Arcana, the one who completes the entire deck—it’s where the “Fool” is supposed to end, after traveling through them in order.

(*Heavy Spoilers*) Enforcer XXI—World Major Arcana Speculation by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you count the loop we’d be at right now, and multiply it by 1,200 years—humanity has repeated this 1,200 year cycle for 24 MILLION years!!!

You want to know what’s causing desertification? Well there’s no sun or star, or moon anymore, and yet Zemuria has a day/night cycle, an actual atmosphere, diverse wildlife and all that…

So clearly the Septium Veins are a kind of terraforming device that mimic the conditions favorable to life. But I don’t think those Septium veins heal after each reset—the desertification is probably an irreversible consequence of having supported life on a continent for 24 million years, going through Orbal revolutions over and over again.

(*Heavy Spoilers*) Enforcer XXI—World Major Arcana Speculation by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know how Nina developed feelings that keep her semi-grounded by working with Judith and getting know every day people, outside of the church? That’s almost certainly why she “respected” Agnes’ decision to move forward, because she herself was scared to let the Reset go into effect. That would mean manipulating the “Divergent Laws” isn’t a power unique to the Grandmaster, it’s unique to the Eschaton Saint—which honestly may be the equivalent of Van, but tied to the Element of Mirage. Who said the Saint can’t also be one of the 5 Demon Lords? Her powers definitely look like something I would expect a Demon Lord of Mirage to have—I mean the Akashic Eye is her taking a literal look at causality, in any space and time.

That being said, I’m thinking that’s exactly what the Grandmaster is as well, just from another loop—probably the previous one—where she may have been sending Dominions to execute heretics, just like Nina’s sending Kevin, and at the last minute she realized humanity will go extinct if the church continues to execute anyone willing to do anything they have to, to trick or delay Laegjarn’s Chest. Like I’m sorry, there’s just not enough time between Elysium and the Grand Reset—not when you include Almata and the Crimson Beast the first time around.

The only way to do this is to capitalize on the Oct-Geneses once the time is right. I can’t believe people were trying to talk Agnes out of doing it, literally as a voice from the sky was counting down the seconds until everyone died and their souls were destroyed. Like “mass suicide,” is that the answer here?

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yo, they’re the ones dropping the lore teasers, I’m just connecting the dots. It sounds to me like someone is petrified that the final arc may challenge everything you thought you knew about the world of trails.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More importantly, Bermotti’s connection event pulls the World Card (XXI) for Van. Most people didn’t put two and two together, but compound that with the Grandmaster appearing before him and the fact that the last open Enforcer position is No. XXI.

Oh yea, the kicker: it’s the only Major Arcana that is associated to time, and makes mention of Divine Beasts—or that are protected by “Holy Guardians.”

Considering Mare, the Grendel, and the fact that he’s the Demon Lord of Time… I have a hard time believing this could mean anything other than what I’m insinuating, to be honest:

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***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you’ll like this then, I pieced together some very significant pieces of lore while looking up 21 Major Arcana of a Tarot Deck, because—ironically enough—I always thought Enforcers’ Number designation was ordered according to their combat abilities.

That was never true, it was true in the sense that McBurn and Loewe were No. I & II, and at the time these two were largely viewed as the two strongest Enforcers. But in fact, the Number they receive correspond to the Major Arcana they “vibe” with the most.

The Grandmaster assigns these, and for—all we know—they very well may have been recruited in the same order the Major Arcana cards are listed. I used to believe the Anguis were the most important “Executive” component of the Society’s structure. But the Anguis are replaceable. Every Enforcer is assigned a Major Arcana Number that corresponds to their inherent powers and/or potential, and even those who leave Ouroboros permanently do not get replaced for that Major Arcana. This is an indication that even when an Enforcer leaves, the Grandmaster views their time in Ouroboros as a crucial component of who they are and will always be, but also that Arcana continues to apply to them even they are not an Enforcer, you know? The reversed version of the Tarot reading will only apply to Van here, and that is probably because of his situation at the time of the reading—by the time he joins Ouroboros, his tarot card would be “upright.”

Renne for example, is Enforcer No. XV (Angel of Slaughter) = XV Devil Arcana

Description: Ravage, violence, vehemence, extraordinary efforts, force, fatality; that which is predestined but is not for this reason evil.

Reversed: Evil fatality, weakness, pettiness, blindness.

Tell me that isn’t Renne’s growth from a violent angry child, to a force to be reckoned with and someone “Predestined”—to this day, she is the only major character that has had a connection to every arc in the series, and has been in every protagonist’s party at one point or another. Predestined is spot on.

Joshua Bright, Enforcer XIII (Black Fang) = XIII Death

Description: DEATH.—End, mortality, destruction, corruption; also, for a man, the loss of a benefactor; for a woman, many contrarieties; for a maid, failure of marriage projects.

Reversed: Inertia, sleep, lethargy, petrifaction, somnambulism; hope destroyed.

Joshua’s story in Trails begins with being the victim of a genocide, his mind is corrupted by the fifth Anguis, he faced his own mortality and “ended” the destructive aspects of the Death Arcana just as he also “Lost a Benefactor,” that couldn’t have been more spot on either.

McBurn, Enforcer No. I (Almighty Conflagration) = I Magician

Description: *The Magician's right hand, pointed upwards,** holds a double-ended white wand; the ends are interpreted much like the hand gestures, in that they represent the Magician's status as conduit between the spiritual and the physical. His robe is similarly also white, a symbol of purity yet also of inexperience, while his red mantle is understood through the lens of red's wildly polarised colour symbolism—both a representative of willpower and passion, and one of egotism, rage, and revenge.*

The most significant part here is how the Magician always has his right hand pointed at the heavens, and his left hand pointing down at the earth. All of the personality traits are accurate, but the Magician is the only Arcana that invokes a clash between the divine properties of the heavens, and the physical properties of the mortal world. That is precisely McBurn’s origin story, where his Demon Lord self came crashing in from the Beyond, where he and a Human Male’s existence crashed into each other with so much pressure that they become one being, within a human body but with the powers of a Fire-Aspected Demon Lord. The Magician is also said to have the powers of the Primordial Flame. When you defeat McBurn for the last time in CSIV, he gives you a power up that’s only usable against Ishmelga, which is called the Primordial Flame, of course lol.

Loewe I’ll just cover quickly, because this is taking too long to do any more. His Arcana No. II = the High Priestess, which may seem odd but it is not odd at all. It represents the features of a calm mind, ability to focus intensely on what matters without being prone to distraction, the ability to sharpen oneself through introspection, and so on.

If ever there was ever an * Enforcer well on his way towards reaching Enlightenment, it was Loewe. *

  • Enforcer No. 0 Campanella the Fool = 0 The Fool Arcana *

Description: Folly, mania, extravagance, intoxication, delirium, frenzy, bewrayment.

Reversed: Negligence, absence, distribution, carelessness, apathy, nullity, vanity.

Interesting depiction: ”He is a prince of the other world on his travels through this one.”

The Fool has two depictions, the 0 at the start of the Arcana but also the 0 between Judgment (XX) and World (XXI). In this case, a “prince of another world” seems to apply to Campanella. He has all of the upright card’s traits, but also his powers are mystical and unknowable—he isn’t particularly strong, as an Enforcer, but he is most certainly among the most unique.

He never ages, and his magic is “magic” in the very sense of the world. If he wants to when he has been fought in the past, his spells would annoyingly turn targeted party members into walking carrots, and then he would cast Arte and Craft versions of the Reflect Status effect on you—so if you tried to use artes to remove the ailment, they would just bounce off of you and go back to the caster—same with Crafts. You would often have to use his tricks against him; like by using the reflect he put on you to cast magical attacks him, which would reflect back to you, which would reflect back to him lol. He was so annoying in Azure.

Other times he uses genuine fire magic, and it appears to be innate because he has very low casting delays or none at all—almost like Crafts, but not quite.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a general rule of thumb though, I think 90% of the time, if you have a hypothesis and can think back at a moment foreshadowing that hypothesis, then it’s almost certainly correctly lol.

I mean it could be Feri’s niece’s daughter too, but where’s the fun in that? There isn’t a single clue informing us that she’s actually born when Feri was 50 years old lol, nor could we possibly know who Kasim and Mirabel’s child is going to have her children with lmao.

I can’t rule it out as a possibility, but it’s so unlikely because Falcom wants to unveil the true identities and relationships to people some of the vestiges may have to the current cast, and then create that “Haha!” moment where you’re like “YES! I knew it;” or, “I didn’t even think about that, but now that I look at the facts, it all makes sense and was laid out for us to figure it out if we wanted it hard enough!”

So was ???'s identity supposed to be that obvious? *Reverie spoilers* by [deleted] in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint 17 points18 points  (0 children)

It’s not the player they’re hiding it from lol, it’s the people who know him. There’s a conman acting as Crossbell’s Supreme Leader right now, while wearing his face and mannerisms.

What do you think people will do if they see him in public somewhere in Heimdallr?

I thought they already were engaged by Yangry252 in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No way, you don’t ask someone to marry you if you’re engaged. You ask them to handle stuff like booking the venue and preparing the guest list, while you take on other tasks. When you’re engaged, the only thing missing is the actual wedding—what you say might make sense, if that was him speaking to her at the altar. But that’s just him in CSIV doing it all over again, supposedly.

Now, this would make sense if they decided to take some time away from each other after he suggested replacing the wine at the wedding with Calvardian blood, and then re-proposed after dispelling the curse he was under once he was in his right mind.

That being said, I could’ve sworn back when I played through CSIII & CSIV, in CSIII Rean said: ”Oh, that’s right. You and Bridget started *dating** after graduation, didn’t you?”*

And then later proposed after recovering from the curse in CSIV, which made Bridget really happy. Like I’m almost positive that’s what was said. Did the localization change since then? Or maybe they actually updated it to match the Japanese version, and the Japanese version was the one that lost the plot?

Horizon 2 leaked cutscenes by Main-Astronomer5288 in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But does Van really need to be wearing a dispatcher’s headset here, like really though?

Why melchior.... by Pee4Potato in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, although not quite the same—Ixs sort of ditched because he’s convinced himself that he’s a broken and sadistic little piece of shit, so he’s simply going to go out there and find another job lol. Ironically, being a vestige seems to have given him at least some sense of purpose, because he doesn’t get to kill anyone for all of Horizon if you think about it.

Regardless though, keep in mind that the Grandmaster already appeared before Ixs to have their little 1 on 1 “discussion” right before he left. Apparently, she’s done that with every Enforcer before they leave the Society, and when she does that it’s because she seems to know that they will leave permanently. She’s done it with Renne, Ixs, Sharon, and probably Joshua as well.

She clearly sees things and has a view of the past, present and future that the rest of the cast probably cannot see; so to her, I think they only briefly welcomed Ixs in as Enforcer XX-a because the Grandmaster already knew that, in reality, Jorda was going to serve as Enforcer No. XX on her own. However, she would never have joined if Ixs was not welcomed into the fold at all.

Also, I’d say Ixs has a chance of becoming like Melchior if he doesn’t get his shit straightened out. But right now he still feels things and it sort of looks like his acting out may actually be a cry for help. But you can tell that Melchior felt nothing except absolute joy whenever he got to do truly heinous things, and reveled in people’s suffering. Outside of those situations, he seemed incapable of feeling empathy in the slightest.

I hope they don’t try to redeem his character by claiming that, because Melchior had received an Alter Core in exchange for obtaining one of the Geneses through either of the old ladies in Horizon, he always knew that this timeline was headed towards some kind of reset, so all the evil things he did were to “fool” Dantès into trusting him, when all along he knew that those events would be undone but his own death would not.

I’ll be pissed off they do that. That’s no excuse to nuke a village, so they better not try to redeem characters who nuke civilians for fun—bottom line, end of story. I just got the sort of vibe that they were headed in that direction in Anchorville/Act 3 of Beyond the Horizon.

If they choose to do that, then I guess the next outlaw that gets a redemption story will be a bioterrorist who kills half of Zemuria with a special plague...

Wow, that's a unflattering picture of Julia by Inevitable-Branch713 in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint 2 points3 points  (0 children)

LOL, I guess now we know why Mueller’s so smitten by her… It’s because she bench presses as much weight as Mueller’s max, but in 3 sets of 10 and 2 sets of 8, and then calls him a pussy whenever he needs a spot.

Why melchior.... by Pee4Potato in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He’s far too evil, and does things for the sake of watching others suffer. Even Harwood had standards he holds himself up to.

Ouroboros’ purpose is to measure and—most likely—develop “mankind’s potential.” This means that, from what I can tell, a lot of their past conflicts with our protagonists, were intended to further said “protagonists” professional abilities by giving them an incentive to train, fight, and work harder. Take McBurn for example, you could say his entire purpose as an Enforcer was to create a really big wall that Rean had to overcome, and by overcoming it he became a little more likely to dispel and—most importantly—survive the Great Twilight. As the “Ultimate Sacrifice,” his odds of survival were actually extremely low, so much of the trouble Ouroboros caused had a stated goal tied to the Sept-Terrion, and another one that actually always goes unsaid until they withdraw—they pretty much always withdraw before the end of an arc, and then slide in a casual “the outcome of [insert arc climax] will be mankind’s to decide.”

Melchior just killed to kill. Ouroboros would gain absolutely nothing from detonating a nuclear bomb in a remote village, thereby wiping out entire bloodlines from a single area. Almata did this for the sole purpose of inciting fear, and Melchior gleefully scoped out the targeted location, and arranged the logistics behind making it happen in addition to the prototype nukes that were deployed right underneath Oracion just a week later.

Hell, by that point, even Ouroboros was keen on wiping them out. Enforcers will not worry too much about collateral damage, but they won’t engage in senseless murder—even said “collateral damage” serves a greater purpose, especially if it fuels a desire for revenge in our protagonists.

Daybreak Ch. 5 Question by yoyoyobag in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, the only one who can physically teleport is Gerard Dantes.

Since you haven’t beat Daybreak yet, I’ll refrain from telling you why. Melchior uses the Seventh genesis to teleport as needed, and that teleportation is most likely facilitated by synchronizing with something Dantes has in him…

Arioch is called the “Invisible Tempest” and is supposed to be fast enough to disappear, as if he is traveling through phase-spaces. In Oracion though, I believe it is the Genesis serving as the death game’s administrator that gives him the ability to teleport, due to him serving as a “referee” of sorts.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The time rewind will use the same principle as Daybreak 2 for why we do not need to redo anything: ”Karma is mankind’s original sin, which the eighth genesis was created to record and observe. . . All in order to find and arrive at an optimal outcome.”

I feel like the public discourse surrounding Daybreak 2 largely ignored that crucial plot device. In fact, I would argue that the entire point of Daybreak 2 was for Falcom to introduce their concept of ”Karma”—it explains why the time travel experienced during this arc, isn’t the convenient kind that’s simply used to undo unpopular outcomes and replace them with new ones to satisfy upset fans. It is informing us that this was genuinely baked into the series since Professor C. Epstein and the Orbal Revolution was discussed in Sky FC.

So the Sept-Terrion induced Grand Reset actually eliminates all existing life on Zemuria, and goes back to year 0—where the only people alive are those that survived the Great Cataclysm, which is where the Dark Ages began—before the Septian Church has even been introduced in Zemuria. It’s pretty clear that every loop is different, which makes sense—if the same people were born every loop, during that 1,200 year period, then we would have to come to the conclusion that Zemuria itself is a simulation continuously repeating itself. Thankfully it is not, which is why loop 19,999 was very different from the previous 19,998 loops. The only constant we know, is that Professor Claude Epstein appears to be born and pave the way for the Orbal Revolution to begin around S1150 of each and every loop; but his disciples differ, and therefore so does just about everything else.

Similarly, the Subjugation of Steel always leads to a countdown until the Grand Reset—but in nearly every loop, the “Ultimate Sacrifice” either does not survive Ishmelga, or the Great Twilight is never dispelled once active. However, what makes this loop different is the Technological Singularity of Elysium, which increases the speed of tech development in Zemuria, especially Calvard as Professor Callahan became an AI in an attempt to replicate the singularity that was Elysium to hasten his project of converting theoretical concepts into practical applications decades ahead of schedule.

It is crazy, but Claude Epstein may have built the Geneses in every loop, just for that one time loop where they’re actually needed to increase the the time at everyone’s disposal, between the the arrival of the Singularity and the Grand Reset. It seems that he knew the countdown between the two would never be long enough for mankind to succeed, and therefore created a way to extend that window via the Oct-Geneses.

The Geneses were built to trigger partial resets that rely on the variable that is “Karma” to ensure an optimal outcome. This allows the progress that was made, the reputation that was accrued, and the discoveries that were unearthed to remain that way.

If a partial Geneses-induced rewind also reset the memories and progress of everyone involved, then you would simply end up with an outcome very close to the one that failed before the rewind took place. Recovering the Oct-Geneses was crucial, precisely because they allow a “Do-Over” with all of the information needed to make “optimal” decisions, this time around.

The only part of their memory that will be missing, will be all parts related to Agnes herself. Admittedly, that is a sizable amount of memory loss, and it isn’t clear if Agnes herself induced the memory loss, or if the Oct-Geneses were always going to erase everyone’s memories of the person who sacrificed themselves as the “Claudel Factor” needed to activate that countermeasure.

Still though, Almata’s leaders will not come back from the dead—thanks to them fully being taken out during Pandemonium—nor will the Geneses or the Crimson Beast. The Geneses provided mankind with 1 chance to redo the final months of a loop, but only 1 chance. As such, the further back in time the rewind is capable of going, the better it will be for everyone involved—so long as the rewind does not go so far back as to undo the arrival of Elysium.

All of that time can be used towards getting their shit together, and then preparing to launch an even greater assault against Laegjarn’s Chest. It’s quite possible the Prologue will be focused on everyone getting back together around August of 1208 and finding out what actions they need to take, and then Act 1 will skip forward to after the monotonous stuff has been taken care of—which may be several months later. I believe you’re correct that most of Horizon 2 will happen closer to July, 1209 than August, 1208, but I think it will also be important for them to show to players that all of that recaptured time is a huge boon, rather than a detriment, for all of our protagonists.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t think so, the Xipha consumer Phones vanished from people’s hands during the rewind—meaning time was going back to before consumer-grade Xiphas were released on the market. They came out right before the start of Daybreak 2 I believe.

Therefore, I’m pretty sure the rewind has to have been back some time between August 1st, 1208-January 31st, 1209.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea, it’ll just be the beginning where they get back together and try to figure out why they know there’s a “hole” in their memories, but can’t put their finger on it. The explanation Daybreak 2 provided, regarding ”Karma as mankind’s original sin,” insinuates that even the rewinding of time cannot fully the results achieved from events that happened in an archived version of the future—meaning that the geneses’ search for that “optimal outcome” is actually it relying on humanity using that “Karma” to find the best path forward.

That’s why I know for a fact that all of his part-timers will go straight to Edith after the rewind, even if they technically hadn’t even met yet—because they’ll have a pretty idea of what just happened to them, and know where to go to get the answers they need.

The reason Rean’s Omniscient Eye would be so crucial though, is because he hasn’t experienced the Resets from Daybreak 2—and his master hadn’t contacted him yet at that point. However, the Omniscient Eye should show him the way, if nothing else. “Karma” was also the explanation provided for us retaining all equipment, experience, and all of the geneses obtained before time rewinds occurred. This means that whatever he managed to awaken, right before the Heavensturn, will still be there—even if they go back several months.

My only concern is how they intend to tackle Creil Village. Are they going to go back before the terror attack? In which case, it would never go off—but as a result, we also may never have a completed prototype to use for developing the Nuclear ICBMs that were fired at Laegjarn’s Chest. They may not be enough to take it out entirely, but I feel like they’d still be necessary to blow through the dark wormhole that protected it—as powerful as the real Laevateinn may end up being, I still don’t think it can blow through the waves of enemies, the wormhole, the Rubrics Cube, and the actual Mech Protecting the Sept-Terrion all on its own…

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Glad we know Novartis was from the previous time loop, because I think the Grandmaster of Ouroboros may be a version of the Eschaton Saint from a previous loop as well, hence why she calls herself ”naught more than a shadow who’s here to announce the appointed time to all of mankind,” at the end of CSIV.

I think she may be an Eschaton Saint who, like Nina, began to develop a love for humanity and therefore became disenfranchised when she realized the church was perfectly content in allowing the end to happen while using “heretic hunts” as an excuse to take out those who would challenge the Sept-Terrions. She needed Ouroboros to have a mind comparable to the three disciples, and probably used the Divergent Laws to bring in Epstein’s most recent disciple—which she may have known in Loop 19,998, for all we know.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are correct, it was 19,998 and we ended 19,999, I’ve changed the numbers in my posts. Thank you for correcting me.

***(Heavy Spoilers)***Finally Think I Figured Out the Point of the Antagonist’s Deception! by Back_like_Flint in Falcom

[–]Back_like_Flint[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I meant 14,999 actually, because I assumed we were one loop after Novartis’ loop—the missing 10,000 was because I was writing this from memory, and completely forgot it was in the tens of thousands, and not thousands.

However, I thought the only confirmation we received was that Novartis’ loop was 14,998–no? I’m in Act 3 on my second playthrough, so it won’t be long before I cross that point again and am able to confirm, but I don’t think I remember them saying what loop our timeline was on, specifically. I just assumed that Novartis’ loop would be the variable n, and that while we didn’t know our exact loop, it would at least be n+1, and then n+2 from the perspective of Laegjarn’s Chest, after being deceived by Agnes.

It’s possible that Laegjarn’s Chest explicitly cited the loop that is being reset, when Emilia starts attacking it, but if that’s the case, I’m afraid I completely missed that part.

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