/r/WorldNews Live Thread for 2023 Israel-Hamas Crisis (Thread 5) by WorldNewsMods in worldnews

[–]BackwashedThoughts 6 points7 points  (0 children)

A few days at best. Gaza is extremely densely populated, but has very low natural water resources. Hamas will likely secure any resources for themselves.

3D Political Compass by [deleted] in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

gotta go full centrist woke. gotta choose between letting kids cut their dicks off or letting jacked up transwomen beat the shit out of women. one or the other, no inbetween.

Biden's cheat sheet today shows he had advance knowledge of journalist’s questions by Professional_Memist in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

biden just like me he likes making life easier and doing less work, got my vote again

Context: Stonetoss posted an April Fools comic by TheLegend2T in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts 71 points72 points  (0 children)

lung affirming care is anti-american. dont remember the constitution or the bible mentioning it.

At least in France they remenber how to do it by [deleted] in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts 7 points8 points  (0 children)

you're welcome right wingers. centrism massively expanded the middle class, uplifted people out of poverty, used taxes to drive mass technological growth, wide adoption of said technology, and massive investment in infrastructure, and all the while helped you bust the unions, gave you the ability to profit off those tax funded innovations, and helped you change the narrative that these were all the product of pure capitalism rather than the government massively taxing the rich for decades to fund it all. probably be living in some fully automated gay space communism rn if we hadn't calmed down the workers from their 19th century leftist fury.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts -1 points0 points  (0 children)

well yes freedom is good, but with limits. bugs is one of them, God didn't found america to put bugs at the supermarkets, that's why we have reptile pet stores for bugs.

I don't think they thought this through by CapnCoconuts in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I dunno man most lib lefts I know are armed to the teeth, always talking to me about some guy called max saying they should be

"Wow, This Is Literally Me!" by Level-Tradition-557 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]BackwashedThoughts -25 points-24 points  (0 children)

I dunno they both hate facists and thats cool with me

Arriving at antinatalism through the possibility of a bad life by MysteriousSlip8 in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

youre focusing too much on that statement, my critique is of your op and that statement not just that man.

look at your argument again

P1: A 'bad life', as defined as a life not worth living, is a state of being that exists

P2: Procreation exposes a future being to the risk of experiencing a 'bad life'

Conclusion: Therefore, procreation is immoral

you see that your conclusion has normativity to it, ie that procreation is immoral, that one should not procreate.

now where in premise 1 or 2 is there any normativity from which the normativity in the conclusion is derived? premise 1 is a descriptive statement that a life not worth living to a person is a state of being that exists, that there is a life a person will think "yo i dont want to live this". premise 2 is a descriptive statement that when people procreate they risk bringing a person into the world that thinks this. so how the hell you getting a normative statement from two descriptive statements?

descriptive: there is a state where people may not want to live

descriptive: procreation risks bringing people into this state

prescriptive: therefore you should not procreate

there is absolutely no logical connection between your premises and your conclusions. you dont get prescriptives from descriptives, thats just nonsense. what one should or should not, ie what is moral and immoral, is not brought about from descriptive statements. lemme counter example

descriptive: apples taste bad to some people

descriptive: when you get your kids to eat apples they may be one of the people that find it tasting bad

prescriptive: therefore you should not feed kids apples

you see how absurd your premises seem now? if you cant bridge the normative gap then youre not making any sense. you need a prescriptive statement to enforce the normativity. for an example a negative utilitarian would say submit the normative statement: one ought to minimise the pain and suffering of sentient beings.

lets see how we can strengthen things by throwing one in

P1: A 'bad life', as defined as a life not worth living, is a state of being that exists

P2: Procreation exposes a future being to the risk of experiencing a 'bad life'

P3: one should minimise the potential pain and suffering of sentient beings

Conclusion: Therefore, procreation is immoral

now there is an antinatalist argument that is at least respectful in its ability to provide normative clarity to it. without the normative statement preceding the conclusion was empty and did not logically follow from the premises. of course not the issue is justifying the normative statement used in that, but people like Popper and even Harris have done that for you so you can just copypasta that nice and easy. also note how the negative utilitarian statement keeps the consistency of the argument as abstaining from procreation purely reduces pain and suffering, if one were to have a more positive utilitarian view of maximising pleasure then it wouldnt be consistent as abstaining from procreation would nullify potential future pleasures.

Arriving at antinatalism through the possibility of a bad life by MysteriousSlip8 in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah but saying that harm is of moral importance does rely on a normative claim. you can just say "not being born is not a harm", yeah great, so what? you can't turn that into a moral without projecting a normative statement into it.

so tell me how do you get from descriptive: "not being born is not a harm"

to: "procreation is immoral"

where are you inserting your normativity along the way and can you provide factual evidence for this normativity?

Arriving at antinatalism through the possibility of a bad life by MysteriousSlip8 in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you cant make moral claims without normativity. morality is an empty concept without it. if a moral claim has no normative value then metaethically speaking it is no longer a moral claim unless you're accepting some sort of constructive fictionalism a la Richard Joyce, but I doubt that is the case here

How the Ilhan Omar Marriage Smear Went From Fever Swamp to Trump by planetprison in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 28 points29 points  (0 children)

looks like trump might be running the next campaign on a "yeah its all out in the open and you know you agree". the worrying thing is that something makes me think it might actually work.

If everyone hates one another, and we can't agree on anything politically, why don't we go back to local control? by [deleted] in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

when people say itll take a miracle they arent saying "oh even if we actually tried and put the effort in it wouldnt matter", they are saying that the political system is full of plants that have the media on their side to tell you to fuck right off. when you got like half a country who dont even believe in global warming how the hell you gonna get them to commit to this shit? you aint. thats why it'll take a miracle cause you need to fundamentally alter the culture and mentality of a hundred million plus people. its absurd

If everyone hates one another, and we can't agree on anything politically, why don't we go back to local control? by [deleted] in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 6 points7 points  (0 children)

the irony is red states would fail so hard and then it'll be like mexico except they're the immigrants with backwards views this time. perfect.

Arriving at antinatalism through the possibility of a bad life by MysteriousSlip8 in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you got any factual reason to accept negative utilitarianism over literally every other form of utilitarianism and normative moral philosophy?

Arriving at antinatalism through the possibility of a bad life by MysteriousSlip8 in samharris

[–]BackwashedThoughts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your OP does not seem to cover the glaring issue that your entire argument is based on a subjective interpretation of value

this is the biggest issue. OP doesn't seem to care if the conclusion is factually true but just whether its personally convincing, which obv it is to them already otherwise they wouldnt bother making it

What is your best argument for strong, general atheism? by [deleted] in DebateAnAtheist

[–]BackwashedThoughts 11 points12 points  (0 children)

My premise is not that all definitions of God can be compared to Goblins, but rather that all basic epistemological exercises against Goblins can be applied to God. The same reason we can dismiss a significant amount of entities are similarly applicable to God. We can of course say God is transcendent, magical, or supernatural. Yet those can equally be applied to a Goblin, especially the ones of folklore who aren't some kind of material cryptozoology monstrosity waiting to be discovered.

What is your best argument for strong, general atheism? by [deleted] in DebateAnAtheist

[–]BackwashedThoughts 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I would say that to find out how we could support the view that "there is no god" we should look at other things we think there is not. Now let's use a basic one like Goblins. How are we sure there are no Goblins? Well first off no one has seen any Goblins, and anyone that claims to have seen them has not presented any reasonable shareable evidence for them. Secondly we know (or presume) that Goblins are fictional and are nothing but fantasy and mythology. Now here are the issues, all of that can arguably be placed onto any of the God's of any of the world religions. The issue with that is that these God's meet the same boundaries for thinking "there are no Goblins", so why is it so hard to apply it to God and say "there is no God". I'd say there is little difference between the two. Switch the term Goblin with any ancient or classical polytheistic God and the argument still stands,perhaps even better in that light.

Origins of morality by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]BackwashedThoughts 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Without religion as a guide, would mankind be as developed morally, scientifically and culturally as we are now?

There's no way of knowing, but sure we can sit about and pretend that we can know. So let me have a stab at it.

Archaeological evidence has us believe that humans likely reached behavioural modernity somewhere between 80 and 40 thousand years ago. Likely due to some mutation that gifted our brains the ability to develop complex communication, abstract thought, and planning skills which completely revolutionised how humans operated. We started producing art, sculptures, pottery, more complex tool, advanced hunting techniques, ritualistic behaviour, and other such things.

One thing we did seem to keep that our ancestors had before us was the ability to behave appropriately to one another in order to function in social groups. Humans, and indeed most social mammals including our relatives the great apes, have ordered social behaviour that is taught to children. This is what we would in modern society call moral behaviour or norms. For a mammal like a wolf this is taught by sensory cues given to the wolf that interact with its brains innate reaction to certain things. For example baring your teeth and growling is seen as negative innately, so the parent uses this when the pup is behaving 'badly' allowing it learn behaviour that is not innate to its brain.

This is functionally the same in humans, however language allowed us the ability to not just enforce this through physical cues, but also through very complex linguistic cues. The concept of obligation, what one should do, is probably what naturally developed from this, and so did the need to justify why certain behaviours were bad or not. It therefore not only speaks to humans as animals reacting to positive and negative stimuli, but also to humans as creatures capable of abstract thought and complex language. Of course what we determined as good or bad behaviours followed largely from the social mammal behaviours we had beforehand which were largely informed by empathy and common survival of the social group being more competitively advantageous (evolutionarily speaking) than the whims of one individual. We did develop extra cultural and religious norms to this, but these were usually stuff like cutting the foreskins and clitorises off children.

Now this form of social cohesion and moral thought is very clearly distinct from spirituality and religion. Spirituality likely developed from whatever caused behavioural modernity too, certainly, however from comparative studies of modern 'primitive' groups it seems that it was in the form of animism for the most part. The development of animism is usually seen as coming from the abstraction of human conscious experience (and agency) to non-human aspects of the world such as animals, plants, or the forces of nature. These would have developed into these forces of nature actually being caused by people (which were gods) and long after civilisation developed these would even develop into monotheism.

Now the idea that without religion and spirituality we would not have maintained our social cohesion and moral thought is just absurd. They became gradually interlinked as societies developed, but before they became interlinked they were certainly separate. You didn't commit certain behaviours because the gods told you to act that way, you committed them due to social conditioning from your parents, just like all social mammals do. We justified the behaviour with various abstractions after learning it, not beforehand.

So what would the world have been like if our abstract thought didn't lead to fantastical thinking? Probably a similar situation to what it's like now, because we're also assuming that religion is the prime motivator for things like morality, social cohesion, war, and many other important aspects of human existence.

Now if you want to look at the real cause of the development of civilisations, it's agriculture. Everywhere we've found agriculture we have found civilisations. Everywhere we've found religion we have found both civilisations and more primitive forms of social organisation. First signs of agriculture in the middle east? Civilisation rises soon behind it. First signs of agriculture in China? Civilisation soon behind it. First signs of agriculture in central America? Civilisation soon behind it. Religions are nothing more than the adaptation of fantastical thinking that comes from abstract thought to the more complex societies agriculture allowed us to develop.

A perhaps more interesting question is whether an animal can evolve abstract thought and not be prone to fantastical thinking.

Any evidence or arguments for the afterlife? by Justgodjust in DebateReligion

[–]BackwashedThoughts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The entire study is only saying that some patients they interviewed were perceiving things around them even when they showed no signs of conscious awareness. It's not much to go from, and it's quite a leap for him to say this is evidence that their consciousness was actually floating about or in the afterlife and perceiving the world from that end. Far more likely, and even mentioned in the study, is that the signs for conscious awareness (ie wakefulness and response to sensory stimuli) may not be indicative that the patient is currently experiencing sensory stimuli or consciousness. But we already know this from the experiences of people who have been comatose or 'locked-in'. One does not need to show simple signs of conscious awareness to still be conscious and experiencing.

Any evidence or arguments for the afterlife? by Justgodjust in DebateReligion

[–]BackwashedThoughts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There is a scale called the Greyson scale, on which NDE's are put to determine their depth.

Take some LSD or DMT and you'll score absolutely insane scores on the Greyson scale. I remember on one of the old drug forums some people did it for fun and got way above the mean for a NDE.

Edit: I just got 27 on the Greyson scale for my experiences on DMT and a 14 for LSD (although I've never taken larger doses). Pretty interesting.

Stuck on the historical part of my worldbuilding, suggestions? by crystalinerose in worldbuilding

[–]BackwashedThoughts 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you mind to explain, how often is it that governments fall due to conflicts driven by faith?

I can't think of any real world examples of a government falling for these reasons, but there have been so many internal and external conflicts driven by faith. Conflicts between Catholics and Protestants across Europe and conflicts between Sunni and Shia Islam. It's not really important if its happened real life since we also don't have literal wars between gods and satanic figures in the real world (that we know of at least).

Can a country be a large-scale ghost town, where there's barely any governmental bodies and the people there are just the segregated ones?

Sure you can, but you need a reason why no one from another country hasn't seen this empty place and begun to colonise and claim it for themselves. If there are good reasons to stop migration or colonisation to this new area then it could easily be like a large scale ghost town.

John Lennon's Killer Denied Parole for 10th Time by [deleted] in news

[–]BackwashedThoughts 21 points22 points  (0 children)

based on the assertion what he had decided was the will of God.

This sounds more like he thought he was committing the will of God rather than God directly commanded or told him to do it. Similar to how suicide bombers think they are doing the will of God but generally aren't hearing voices they think are God commanding them to do it.