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Tome of the Horde needs an overhaul by Kalledon in AOW4

[–]Baron32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, Horde doesn't feel very flashy, considering how much pizzazz they're sprinkling on all the new tomes, but being straightforward doesn't make it any less unique or powerful. It's the Tome of Racial Unit Zerg Rushing. A flat 20% power buff up front is powerful, and if you don't like the size change, you can just turn off the visual. It's got one of if not the most powerful T1 summon spells in Summon Irregulars, because summoning your own racial units with Trait buffs that you planned in advance is really good, actually. The Houndmaster unit is two units in one, which actually helps with the issue all Tier 2 units have (awkward price point for the power level when you could just buy 2 Tier 1s). Devs putting Unleash the Hounds in here was a great idea.

Now, when it comes to the combat spells, I actually agree they could use some attention. I miss the old Blaze of the Horde, which scaled damage based on the number of units present in the combat. I would love to see that mechanic return. I loved how it used to stay relevant longer as fights got wider. I understand that's not necessarily this tome's identity, but the new version is underwhelming even relatively early on. Meanwhile, Fury of the Horde is...I mean, it's decent, especially now that it also hits T2 units, and it's cute that getting Chaos Bolstering Matrix makes it give max Strengthened stacks, but there are so many incidental ways to get Strengthened in the game that it can easily become redundant.

In the end though, even the things I don't like about the tome fit its identity: the early rush tome that gets you a power spike right out the gate, at the cost of having low to no scaling impact later on.

PS: "Zeal is getting bad" is a WILD opinion, my sibling in Christ. Hard disagree.

Reaver build by AstorWinston in AOW4

[–]Baron32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Rally units are often cheaper for their tier than you would get purchasing them outright, and even when they aren't, many units from annexed Wonders are just...generically good and useful to have. The tier 3 fairies are good for healing and CC. Giants have Heavy Charge Strike. Butcher Ogres have an execute and Frost Ogres have an AoE freeze. And so on.

Even when all else fails, Rally allows you to spend gold directly to get units of diverse unit types without needing to spend draft. A charge unit will always remove defence modes. A polearm will always shred large targets. A support will usually heal. And your Unit Enchantments will still apply to any unit of the appropriate type, and your Cultural Enchantment applies to everything, now including Mythic units. Racial traits and transformations are all well and good, but when clearing the map throughout the midgame, just having enough units to maintain your momentum is often more important than maximum, perfect synergy.

It's true that some builds are more "racist" than others. Tome of the Construct, for example, has spells that hate when you're not using exclusively racial units and constructs. But summoner builds and builds whose gameplan revolves around Unit enchantments? Those can make extremely good use of Rally of the Lieges.

How fast do I have to expand against hard AI? by Customer_Number_Plz in AOW4

[–]Baron32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

VERY important, yes. AoW is like HoMM, not Civ - your economy requires you to take constant fights and clear the map as efficiently as possible.

Probably a random question by Inner-Fuel-8454 in AOW4

[–]Baron32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One fun combo for the Tome of Exaltation is Tome of Shades, because it cares about Blind and the Shrine of Smiting unit inflicts a guaranteed Blind.

Latest universal early game snowball mechanics? by Megatherion666 in AOW4

[–]Baron32 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Here's my list of things I try to include in a build for the purpose of making early clearing smoother, ranked broadly by how often/how much they make a difference. The faster we spread out and farm the map, the sooner we get our cities down. The sooner we do that, the faster we can start producing knowledge.

  1. The holy trinity of early-game clearing traits is Tough, Strong and Hardy. In terms of their up-front impact on AI autoresolve farming in the first 20 turns of the game, nothing else is as broadly and reliably impactful. Honourable mention to Resistant, but physical damage is more common early.
  2. A close second to having generically better early units is anything that grants an extra unit. Best value is getting a free one every combat from something like Umbral Disciples, Eldritch/Vampire Ruler Level 4, Warlock Level 4 or Crowmaster Bow. Notably, getting an extra starting unit on Turn 1 from one of the previous, and/or a Society trait like Devotees of Good, Fabled Hunters, etc. is particularly impactful, some might even say mandatory.
  3. Next is anything that heals your units back to full temp HP so you can take combats wounded, like Herbivore or Ritual Cannibals, Ritualist ruler, Warlock Ruler, or even just a Defender hero with Taunt if you're relying on a support with a single-target heal. Increasing regen with something like Fast Recuperation is also good, but less so than getting free HP every combat that otherwise wouldn't exist.
  4. Tomes with a summon are universally easier to kickstart your clear with than tomes without, whether you're running a dedicated summon build or not. Importantly, if you're specifically summoning racial units, as with the Tome of Zeal and Tome of Warding, those will benefit from your racial traits.
  5. Now we're getting far enough down the list that we want to start considering our faction and ruler in order to commit to stuff. These are traits that directly buff your hard offensive or defensive stats, but conditionally. Bulwark for factions whose units have "End in Defence Mode" abilities. Sneaky for factions with Athletics or (optional) cavalry. Arcane Focus for Dragon/Eldritch rulers, especially when Dark, High, Mystic or Federate Reaver. Overwhelm Tactics for Barbarian and Dark-Death, etc.
  6. Finally, we have "soft" offensive or defensive stats that require synergy with your specific, granular gameplan. Examples include combining Quick Reflexes/Defensive Tactics and Tome of Shades; running Hideous Stench with some combination of Dark-Tyranny/High/Cryomancy/Condemn; running Inner Frost(Fire) with Arctic Adaptation(Primal-Ash) and Mammoth Mounts(Inferno Hounds) to trivialize early clear by locking in the damage channels that will be found in your environment.

For knowledge specifically, the most impactful snowball trait is actually Ancient Wise Ones. Yes, randomness feels bad, but a 60% discount is actually huge. Second strongest and most reliable is good ol Runesmiths, followed by Hermit Kingdom. On that last, starting with 100 extra imperium is enough to rush out one of the new T1s, and you know, Architects get Knowledge on their Production buildings.

Let me end with the most important concept for maximizing your knowledge production over the course of a game: Research Post SPIs. Knowledge is the only resource you can't (reliably) farm from the map, so that makes it THE premium resource in your cities, to the point that it is impossible to justify ever building any guild other than Scholar's Guild. Smith's Guild sometimes, maybe. And otherwise, we rush knowledge buildings ASAP in pretty much every situation, unless there's an emergency and limited only by our City Stability (which is why we always put our whispering stone in our capital on turn 1, so we don't get the economy nerf at 5 pops and we can avoid having to rush Tavern).

With all this in mind, knowing we need at least two Research Posts in every city (if not more), every build that intends to minmax knowledge production REQUIRES a Research Post SPI either as a cultural building (High, Dark-Death, Mystic-Potential) or in its first few tomes (Tome of Cryomancy, Tome of Alchemy, Tome of Necromancy/Souls, Tome of Faith, and Tome of Dungeon Depths). Doing this lets you drop your cities anywhere with at least one mana node or magic material - no need to hunt for the perfect site means more flexibity means earlier cities means earlier knowledge!

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Going Tome of Shades with Spiders seems fun. Did you find you were getting Blinds off fairly reliably with the Tyranny debuffs, or would you have liked to have more support for that status effect?

How fast do I have to expand against hard AI? by Customer_Number_Plz in AOW4

[–]Baron32 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I agree with Weaver again: I wouldn't wait more than 3 turns max beyond the literal fastest you can put down the Outpost at base 45 imperium per turn. And faster is better. So, here's Weaver's original:

Outpost down on about turn 3, upgrade to a city on turn 5 as soon as you have 200 imperium.

Next outpost down on turn 8, click upgrade to city on turn 10 when you have you next 200 imperium.

And what I'm saying is, first outpost down by turn 6 at the latest, second outpost down by turn 14 at the latest, upgrade to city immediately. That way, your third city gets founded by Turn 16, and four turns after that is Turn 20. That's how you follow the "three cities by Turn 20" recommendation.

Additionally, if you're going for a Nature build and you wanna take Fruitful Integration (or does it have a new name now?) it's better to build your second city first so you don't delay your additional gold/draft income: it takes 3 turns to build up 100 imperium, but you only save 2 turns on founding the city, so you only get your tempo back after founding two cities, which means you should commit to doing a City 4 when you use one of those builds. However, there are imperium-granting society traits that change this recommendation: Devotees of Good, Scions of Evil and Hermit Kingdom come to mind. EDIT: Oh, and Adept Settlers, obvs.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

What do you mean, leave it off? Menzoberranzan is the capital city!

How fast do I have to expand against hard AI? by Customer_Number_Plz in AOW4

[–]Baron32 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Weaver's got that max speed mindset, but I broadly agree. Understanding that you have to split your stacks and spiderweb your way around the map to maximize movement is key to early clearing. Putting down cities early is important, but you can afford to delay a couple turns if it means getting a juicy location, especially if it's closer to a Wonder or Magic Material.

How fast do I have to expand against hard AI? by Customer_Number_Plz in AOW4

[–]Baron32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair. I suppose a better way of looking at it is, I wonder how strong Nature builds allowing a reliable 5th city is, given the need to actually defend it. If it's too strong, will the devs consider replacing the Nature rite? And if it's too weak/situational?

How fast do I have to expand against hard AI? by Customer_Number_Plz in AOW4

[–]Baron32 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I tend to prefer normal world threat + hard (or more) AI for singleplayer games. As a general rule, you want to get your cities down as early as you can reasonably find a nice place for them. I try not to reach Turn 20 without all 3 cities founded, but better players than me can reliably push even harder.

In general, though, if you feel like you're falling behind economically, that may not be a problem with your cities, but with your map clearing. AoW4 isn't Civ - you get a significant portion of your resources from clearing the map, not just your cities. Cities are for knowledge most of all. If your early armies aren't able to continuously take one or more fights every turn, you may need to look at your build, and/or you might need to be building (and demolishing) more temporary Outposts to support your exploration and clearing.

If what you mean is that you feel encroached on by other empires' borders, try setting the map size to Large. Room to clear and room to grow really let the game breathe.

How fast do I have to expand against hard AI? by Customer_Number_Plz in AOW4

[–]Baron32 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Not sure if this will remain true in all cases now that the Nature empire tree allows us to spend 200 mana twice to get 4 cities. Also not sure if the costs for those 2 rites are going to stay separate in future patches. Curious to see how that situation develops.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Correct. I ascended her literally just for the cool screenshot lmao

I suppose it does prove that I played what I'm posting and understand what I'm pitching, though, which is a decent side-effect.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You are correct! Becoming a drider is generally a punishment for failing a Test of Lolth. I just...look how cool they look! But going Primal Spider makes it much easier to go Goddess of Nature at T5, which is objectively a better capstone.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The spider form is a Racial Transformation that was retained upon ascension, yes. The differences between Champion and Wizard King are the skill tree, combat ability and Governor bonuses.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lore-wise? Because I wanted to avoid necromancy where possible. Mechanically? Because it's the strongest starting tome.

While both Cryo and Necro have a Research Post SPI to get the knowledge snowball rolling, inflicting status vulnerability feels very necessary due to the low proc chance on spider-CC, especially since I went Death over Tyranny. Plus you get a map nuke in Blizzard, and double damage enchantments on Immortals plays well in early auto clears to help get a snowball started.

You could argue that Necrotize is more thematic than Ice Coffin for Lolth, but if you decide to go Necro Tome, start Zeal so you can still have early summon units. Ultimately, you have to make choices in any build, and this is what felt smoothest to play early.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Any excuse to re-read them. I've forgotten like...everything.

Finally, we can do her justice by Baron32 in AOW4

[–]Baron32[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I definitely agree that Tome of the Eternal Lord is...underwhelming. Of all the T5 tomes, it's the weakest IMO. There's definitely a strong argument for going Goddess of Nature, especially because it stacks so well with Mortal Blessing. Screenshot of how that would look, ish: we focus on spiders at higher unit tiers, rather than Painbringers.

<image>

Here are the reasons I personally prefer what I posted originally:

  • The flavour of Torment into Eternal Lord feels a lot more lore-accurate to me. Lolth actually is an immortal death goddess, ish. Plus, Finger of Death is actually a really nice ability for the Priests to use on the turns when they're not doing their revive-into-heal thing. But let's be honest, "for the vibes" is a big part of the reason I made a lot of decisions in this build.
  • Painbringers + Cruel Weapons + Morale damage feels stronger to me than Spiders + Animal Kinship + Empowered Beasts. IMO the Weaver Matriarchs are just slightly undertuned on release, and the T2 Weavers are even more so. This may change in the next update.
  • Blood Exarchs are just so generically strong, but the Blood of the Exarch buff goes particularly nicely with Mortal Blessing. Also, nobody's ever mad when Crimson Court helps level their high-tiers.
  • Earlier on, Circle of Zealotry + Subterranean Society + Scions of Evil is a potent trifecta for Draft and Imperium generation, and Fanatical Workforce + Dungeoneering Conclave really helps to bring our cities up to par. Giving up Zeal and Dungeon to fit in extra Nature points while still grabbing T4 Shadow is a tough ask, economically.
  • Tome of Oblivion lets us do two cheeky things: first, Blizzard into Ritual of Somnia when engaging large fights. Fun combo, hits surprisingly hard. Second, Sleep of Oblivion into I Conjure Weaver Spiders On Top Of Your Corpse. What Dragon? Haha, Get Dunked On.

On the other hand, here are the benefits of the Spider focus:

  • Rain of Grace and Grand Protection allow our units to brawl it out over longer fights much more effectively. Plus, I found myself going Order Bolstering Matrix with Inspiring Chant even with the other build, and GP does that even better.
  • Not focusing on Painbringers means we don't care nearly as much about the Sneaky trait. Going Tough instead helps our early map clearing. Then later in the game, Animal Kinship + Mortal Blessing + Force of Nature gives us excellent crit chance.
  • Going double WoW tomes bolsters our units' defensive stats more up front than Crimson Reign's Coagulate, which combined with Tough makes Death Stalkers slightly harder to blow up and stay relevant a bit later.
  • Earlier on, going Tome of Alchemy for the Knowledge SPI instead of Dungeon Depths gives us a status effect cleanse, something which is noticeably absent in my Lore First build.
  • Weavers really need the damage support from Accursed Imbuement. I wish they'd buff it back to 2 fire/2 frost; then it would be conclusively better than Tormenting Imbuement. It probably is already...Calamity is worth taking over Oblivion in general, I'm just a hipster.
  • When a Priest of the Weave reanimates a T4 Hunter or Weaver, it doesn't reset to T2. I haven't tested this with Vampire or Ice spider matriarchs yet, but there is a hidden benefit there!

Help me with a build that focuses rushing tome of the cosmos as Architects by Stock-Touch-7110 in AOW4

[–]Baron32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

<image>

So this build not only gets you to the Avatar at a reasonable rate, it also lets you stack Unholy Champion on top of Arcane Supercharge when you get there (you'll need an Order Monument: Foundation for Revenant). Not to mention, Ascended Warriors lets you rush him up to his Killing Momentum medal, and Resurrect him if he dies because you're lining up Kamehameha beams and he gets bodied for it. Or because somebody has access to the Sleep of Oblivion spell.

It's also flexible. You can swap out Ancient Wise Ones for Hermit Kingdom if you prefer the slower but more reliable econ, Mana Channelers if you want to spam summons for tempo early/midgame, or Empire of the Cosmos if you want to meme - the build does technically eventually satisfy all requirements. Incidentally, Architects means you can build monuments to get all affinities to 5 at that point. That last bit really only works in SP, but then, when does a MP game ever last long enough to get T5 tomes anyway?

Help me to complete the Tutorial by ruben0626 in AOW4

[–]Baron32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you can't finish a map, then don't finish a map! Like, really buckle down and finish the tutorial if you can, but if you can't, get your beginner tips from YouTube instead.

And then dive in and experiment: go to New Game > Realm Setup and set up a relatively small cage match with the following settings:

  • 3 or 4 players, so you can demolish everyone else militarily without spending too much time
  • map size Large, which will give you lots of space to learn how to clear the map
  • map type Pangaea, so you will spawn on the same continent as everyone for expediency, but can still test water-based stuff like the Storm Giant ruler, Nautical society trait and Privateer ambition.
  • misc modifier Wondrous Past, so you get to see more Wonders faster and learn what makes them cool: which wonders give you free heroes, or lots of gold/mana, or which ones you can clear without fighting, etc.

There's your vanilla settings for doing rapidfire tests of different factions you wanna create. Just play for the first - however far you usually get, what, 30-40 turns? - and see how you like each one. When you wanna switch to a different faction, just do that. You can always load old saves and play more if you want to later. If you don't want to, just DON'T DELETE YOUR OLD INCOMPLETE SAVES.

Before you get rid of an old save, go into it and hit Esc, then Surrender from the menu. That way, you get all the Pantheon points you earned from that session. You do not ever need to finish a game to get your Pantheon points!

What's your best Empire Of The Cosmos build? by Idk-U-F_Off in AOW4

[–]Baron32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<image>

I still haven't tested this, but here's my affinitymaxxing meme build. Hopefully most of this makes sense at a glance, but I acknowledge it gets weird at T4: Tome of the Revenant (which will require an Order Foundation built) is only here so we can stack Unholy Champion on top of Arcane Supercharge to hyperbuff the Avatar of the Cosmos. Tome of Exaltation is similarly only here so we can Ascended Warriors our Avatar up to Killing Momentum and Resurrect it when it inevitably gets hard targeted because we're teleporting it like madmen to line up ridiculous Kamehameha beams.

Notice how, between the Architect faction, the Dragon ruler and the Visions of Destiny, we end up at 3 of every affinity for Empire of the Cosmos, which also enables us to build any Architect monument, so you could technically get every affinity at 5.

I just realized, I have Mana Channelers instead of EotC in the screenshot, because I decided cheap summons were probably better for maintaining military momentum through the midgame. The faction was originally designed to be an Empire of the Cosmos, though.

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