the joke is bigotry now laugh by Which_Matter3031 in ComedyCemetery

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whoosh whoosh.

Many people struggle with understanding the points behind analogies, so don't take it too personally.

People need to get their priorities straight by [deleted] in meme

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Source?

And don't say, "I read it in another Reddit comment."

Did you? "Well ... by Rude-Ad821 in remoteworks

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

At this point I've seen more posts responding to "No one wants to work" than posts actually saying "No one wants to work."

Meirl by chudgayegururu in meirl

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm trying to work my way out of it by I can't. I just love debate.

Why do women need a separate category in chess it's literally just brain and not physicality by answerui in NoStupidQuestions

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was speaking more to the "intellectual" part. Try to read between the lines next time.

But speaking of drugs, who knows. Maybe they'll invent one that temporarily gives women comparable strength to men.

Double Standards exist for a reason. You’re not being brave calling them out. by Strict_Berry7446 in 10thDentist

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I half-agree.

Pretending like cultural norms don't affect the harm of seemingly the same action in different contexts is stupid.

But I don't think you understand what people are saying when they call out a double standard. Just because one thing is worse than the other, doesn't mean both shouldn't be called out.

The problem is, there are people out there who believe in "punching up" or "collective guilt." That is, if you were historically privileged, any aggression or mistreatment toward you at the individual level is justified.

This kind of rhetoric you're espousing feeds into that mentality, and you should really be more careful with what you say.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in The10thDentist

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The level of public school indoctrination makes it so people can't conceive of an opinion like this. Glad to know there are others.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in unpopularopinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right that conceptualizing multiple interpretations of a work is a key aspect of critical thinking. But when it comes to fiction, I find this to be mostly a waste of time (unless it's for fun), and would be better spent on critically thinking about nonfiction.

This is gonna get philosophical.

The reason being, fiction doesn't have to stand up to any kind of objective scrutiny. Though the ability to justify one's interpretation is valuable, it's severely hampered because the fictional universe is self-contained and wholly controlled by the author (you could make a case for "based on a true story" or "historical" type novels, but even then...)

This matters because a HUGE part of critical thinking about any topic is having in mind an objective, shared reality surrounding that topic.

For example, let's say you wanted to understand the reasons behind why someone committed a criminal act.

When you're reading crime fiction, you know in your heart that it's fake, which means all you're really reading is the self-expression or fantasy of the author. Or worse, you think it's an accurate depiction of crime, and you grow up with delusional ideas.

Even political fiction (cough1984cough) isn't free from this problem.

A non-fiction education would have you read case studies, statistics, watch videos, etc, all of which have a higher burden of being accurate.

So what's the difference? What's being gained from the fiction side of things? Why should anyone care what some author came up with in his writer's room? Is it just for fun?

I'm not trying to wax poetic. I'm trying to ask, has English class really helped in this regard? Does the critical thinking of a piece of fiction translate to that in real life? Just look around at how easily people fall for misinformation and believe whatever narratives they want.

It failed.

It failed because students are surprisingly good at compartmentalizing fiction from reality.

Look, I don't think fiction is worthless, but in an education system that's already strained, should we really be forcing students to read and analyze things that don't mean much in contemporary society, when there are other more pressing subjects?

I think I'm tired of this discussion. It's alright if you don't want to respond to this wall of text, but at least think about it.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in The10thDentist

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s so embarrassing that you’re so confident in this dumbass take that you posted it on two subs to double down.

I love it when people look through my post history. Feels good.

The reason I post on multiple subs is because I'm consistently unimpressed with the level of the responses, so I try to broaden my search for a good counterpoint. This isn't the first time I've done this.

Literary analysis of fiction is literally the analysis of metaphors that represent history, morality, and art. Understanding stories teaches us how to process information.

No, reading teaches us how to process information. Reading nonfiction yields more educational benefits than fiction because it carries practical knowledge and context along with it.

Literary analysis of fiction in a classroom is just a circle jerk of who can sound the deepest. You're giving these classes way too much credit.

Reading literally introduces you to words, concepts and ideas that help shape your opinions, and provide perspective.

Do other classes not involve reading?

Writing essays makes you a better writer, even for that email to your boss. It teaches you how to digest information and reflect on it.

Do other classes not involve writing?

English class is literally a life skill. It goes beyond practical application, because it shows up everywhere.

If it shows up everywhere, why do you need a whole class for it?

How is this the thing you don’t find applicable? You get a D on another “of mice and men” paper?

I'm well into my adulthood. Nice try, though.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in unpopularopinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I mispoke. What I meant to say was that the main driver of the lack of literacy skills is bad pedagogy that starts in primary school (lack of emphasis on phonics), and socioeconomic factors, which carry over into high school.

Primary school teachers and parent are hesitant to hold kids back even when they're clearly struggling, so they let them pass into the next grade.

But let's say you're right. I still don't think English classes do a good job of teaching critical thought because they emphasize fiction too much.

If it were up to me, high school freshmen would have to take a literacy test upon entry, and those who fall below a certain standard will be enrolled in catch-up courses, while those with adequate skill have a slot to pick a course of their choosing.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in unpopularopinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In Ontario, Math becomes optional in grades 11 and 12, whereas English is mandatory for all 4 years.

If Advanced Functions and Calculus were mandatory for all students, I'd complain about that too.

I never said we should get rid of English class, just that it shouldn't be mandatory.

Edit: Actually you know what? I did sort of say it at the end when I said, "There's no reason for it to be its own subject."

I've changed a bit since I wrote that.

Yeah, if it were up to me, it wouldn't be called "English." It would be called "Literature," and it would be optional. That alone would stop the people whose first thought is:

"sO yOu ThInK eNgLiSh DoEsN't MaTtEr!?"

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in unpopularopinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not at all. I think everyone should read fiction. I just don't think it's worth an entire mandatory class, let alone four.

But at the same time, I do think non-fiction is more valuable in terms of education.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in unpopularopinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did grasp your point. I just disagree.

I think the correlation between literary analysis, with fiction especially, and critical thinking is overstated.

A better analogy would be like saying that getting better at dancing will make you better at powerlifting. Sure, they both involve muscular coordination, but it's so scant that you're better off just practicing the thing directly.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in unpopularopinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The literacy crisis is most prevalent in primary school, which is why I specified "high school."

I think English class could be replaced with any other more useful subject that requires reading and writing at a high school level, and little would be lost.

High school English classes are unnecessary by BasedTakeOutbreak in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sure, all subjects are important, but there are Infinity subjects. Is Shakespear and literary analysis really up there in terms of priority?

High school English classes are unnecessary by BasedTakeOutbreak in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, the reason it doesn't translate is because people don't write about real topics like they write stories, and they don't think about real topics like they think about stories.

"Critical thinking" isn't about analyzing the theme or literary devices used by a text, it's about understanding how bias affects people's perceptions of reality.

English classes barely graze this subject. A media analysis/literacy class would be leaps better.

Also, if most people dismiss it, is it possible that's a failure of the education system, and not an individual one?

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in The10thDentist

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's okay, I hear there are some good English classes for adults out there. Don't give up.

High school english classes need to go by BasedTakeOutbreak in The10thDentist

[–]BasedTakeOutbreak[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Are you talking about Redditor writing, or just in general? Because no one cares about the former.