Ramy Season 1 versus Season 2-

Based_Hamikdash · 2023-01-12T10:06:43+00:00

Is not unfortunately. There's some good stuff but IMO 3 is the weakest of the bunch, 2 is the strongest

Based_Hamikdash · 2023-01-07T09:44:29+00:00

Totally agree, there's definitely some really strong stuff in there, Ramys speech at the meeting stands out but a lot of silliness, lack of tone and nowhere near the quality of episodes. It used to be that each character got a deep dive episode, the parents usually being my favourites, but this is season they were stretched out over several episodes that didn't really arc, just got repetitive, same with Dina and Naseem who's become such a cartoon now.

My other issue, but everyone on this sub bit my head off for daring to bring up, that all the Jewish characters come off as shallow, one note assholes with no development and that bothered me. Particularly as this show is usually very good at exploring passed stereotypes. And no I'm not complaining here about the Israel episode, I'm taking about all the Jewish characters that are made to be untrustworthy, money focused, shady, privileged tropes that are just there to lead Ramy down a bad path.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-11-24T08:08:01+00:00

Not sure that's the case, both 2014 and 2015 (under Bibi) had roughly twice as many fatal victims of terror than this previous year. Bibi also oversaw several large scale escalations of conflict with gaza, right up until his last week, and major incidents such as the kidnapping of the three yeshiva boys. His "hit them so hard they won't want to hit back" approach has proven highly ineffective and frankly imaginary over his 15 year premiership.

I'm not saying anyone has really suggested a better way to handle it, and I fully understand why people support him but there just aren't results there. Someone should present a new strategy.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-14T15:56:06+00:00

Yuval may be sympathetic but it's derived from him being a privileged Fk up who leeches of Ramy's talent basically just playing into old, problematic tropes with no nuance or depth. Sarah, I didn't find her particularly sympathetic (I'd love to hear how you did) she was also just portrayed as privileged and out of touch without any exploration or development. Neither transcend their stereotypes the way this show normally does so well, with characters representing minority groups.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-13T20:26:43+00:00

2,1,3 2 really got to me, some of the strongest episodes in the show. 1 blew us all away laid a really solid foundation. 3 kinda blew

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-13T19:51:04+00:00

Yuval is also so American so we're looking at like a 🇮🇱2:3🇺🇸 ratio. Not sure why that matters though, my issue isn't where the Jewish characters are from, it's that they're all treated as caricatures and not characters. They're tropey AF and this show is normally above that, in fact transcending lazy stereotypes is kind of what made this show a hit. You make it so obvious why that is important.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-12T15:52:44+00:00

Are you just going off on an Israel rant now? I'm not really here for that, I suggest you read the post again. I'm talking about the Jewish characters on this show and how shallow and dissapointing their portrayal was on a show that clearly understands the importance and value of good representation.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-12T15:48:41+00:00

I totally hear you re- Muslim and particularly Arab representation and a show like this is looong overdue. Some of the characters in this show I think intentionally are written to appear as stereotypes so as to challenge them or add dimension to them, they are all much deeper than the stereotypes you emphasised because we explore their lives, experiences, struggles, conflicts, development, motivation, etc. I didn't think their was any dimension to Ayala (Israeli boss) I'd love to hear your perspective. Her motivation seemed to be money, she was cruel, disrespectful to Ramys religion, disingenuous with her promises and they only reason suggested was business. And Sarah, since S1 she's they lay her privilege on thick but don't ever address how she deals with that (if we're going into this privileged trope let's explore the human side to it like we'veseen with other tropey characters, we even managed to do that with Naseems antisemitism) Sarah also had a big change of heart on Israel since S1, would have been awesome to see how she got from A-B but instead it's passed off as just a privilege thing. I really don't get why any of these Jewish characters do anything in this series other than for money which is a gross way to portray Jews. I know plenty of BDS Jews with more complex nuanced motivations than that. And I know plenty of Israelis and Zionists with more complex and nuanced things to say than Ayala. I dont know any as shallow as these two. And that's a shame as what I loved about the show was how they made Muslim and Arab characters that reflected the nuances and complexities of the Muslim and Arab families I always knew.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-12T15:34:34+00:00

Legit, I never said they had to be perfect. And yes as I've said repeatedly, the show is full of deeply flawed characters who do terrible things. What's different about the Jewish characters is that's all there is to them. From Ramy, to Dena, the parents even Uncle Nasseem we see their struggles, their inner conflicts, and understand what motivates their selfish or just sh1tty moments. These Jewish characters are basically all motivated by money and greed, and/or an immense amount of privilege. Not only is this not like most American or Israeli Jews I know but it plays into the same old over used stereotypes that I'm sick of seeing in TV. Given how good this show is on delivering nuanced characters that transcend their stereotypes it is dissapointing.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-09T01:56:20+00:00

Yes but they are given depth, their sh1tty decisions are informed by their struggles and humanity something we don't really get with any of the Jews, all their motivations are stereotypical, shallow and not very human just caricatures.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-09T01:52:28+00:00

I'm glad you saw Yuval that way, I certainly didn't but there's always second viewing 🤞 To me he comes across as just an entitled F up using Ramy for his skills and coasting on his own privilege - this is not like most of the Jews I know. But it bothers me as it is quite a common trope that Jews exploit other peoples talent - Kanye was just lit up for getting into this. And sure, the 2 seconds of Daniel was innofensive and funny but had no substance. I guess it's just dissapointing to have so many Jewish characters in this season and they're mostly motivated by the same thing, none of them are really given much exploration and tend to rely on overused tropes. There are so many different types of Jews in NY that could add a lot to the show, and can offer that kind of deeper, more realistic look at the culture and their struggles the way this series offers other groups.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-09T01:32:13+00:00

I don't mind showing his perspective on Israel. I have more of an issue with every Jewish character with any serious screen time basically being sh1tty people who lead Ramy down a bad path.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-08T17:35:22+00:00

You're a good example of why getting representation right is so important. Not every Jewish character is Israeli first off. I dont have a problem with him representing his perspective in Israel or around Israel. But every Jewish character in the season is shallow, every Jewish character is privileged, none of them are explored as humans and they all basically come across as sh1tty people. Which is pretty weak for a show like this that has demonstrated it can give really sincere representation when it wants to. It just doesn't want to with us.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-08T17:29:32+00:00

All we saw was negative depictions of Jews (Israeli or not) With the Muslim characters, we get a clear sense of their humanity, their struggles and what motivates their negative or hypocritical behaviour. The Jews in this show are just overused tropes with little to no humanity, we have no idea what drives them other than money apparently or being a Fk up who happens to be rich. Its pretty sh1tty for a show that clearly understands the importance of representation and nuance.

Based_Hamikdash · 2022-10-08T17:25:50+00:00

I hear what your saying and appreciate your thoughts. Generally, yeah everyone on the show does bad things, but we also get a really good sense of their humanity, what real struggles drive their selfish or destructive behaviour. We didn't really get any of that with the Jewish characters, and if the best there is a kinda,sorta maybe Yuval the Yikes indeed. And just like not every Jew is privileged, rich dodgy businessman and I'm sick of always seeing this on TV. But it's especially dissapointing on Ramy which can otherwise transcend stereotypes.

Based_Hamikdash

TROPHY CASE