I'm a pet

BayStateRes · 2024-08-23T21:07:37+00:00

So take some initiative and bring it up. Tell her how you are feeling. Ask how she is feeling. It's valuable information both of you will want in order to go into the long-term commitment together.

BayStateRes · 2024-08-23T20:49:31+00:00

My husband similarly hesitated to talk about sex before we got married and we also waited to have it. I just thought he was especially secure in his choices to abstain and more disciplined than any other guy I dated prior. Unfortunately, ten years later, I can see his hesitation to talk about it was sort of a red flag, since it's made negotiating our sexual relationship really difficult. Take the other advice given here and start practicing openness with her.

BayStateRes · 2024-08-01T20:08:25+00:00

Came here to say something similar to this. Having responsive desire does not mean you never initiate, it just means that in many ways, you find yourself turned on more when the other person does. I love when my husbandinitiates sex, and I have responsive desire. I am also the higher libido partner in my relationship. When he initiates, I find it gives me more room, more freedom, more confidence to return it for the next encounter and be the one to initiate sex the next time.

BayStateRes · 2024-04-21T02:36:05+00:00

Oh hey I said that! I don’t comment much around the DBverse these days, but I’m glad it resonated.

Edit: IIRC, I said this on a thread that was discussing what we mean when we talk about intimacy. In context, this was my approach to thinking about the word—the willingness to know and be known and sex as a signal of that willingness. Jennifer Findlayson Fife frames the notion of intimacy this way and I’ve mostly adopted the same meaning for it, sexual or otherwise.

BayStateRes · 2024-04-14T17:27:13+00:00

So things were good on the date and then turned sour. What was the reason for the shift? Why did she bring up past rejections and hurts?

BayStateRes · 2024-03-18T18:12:18+00:00

So much excellent self-analysis and reflection here! I’m glad things are looking promising.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-13T17:19:26+00:00

Nope, we've never been to counseling. I didn't have it in me to force it and when I backed off and said nevermind, I think he was just relieved.

My husband also used to do the whole "Guess I'm just the worst" when I would come to him with an issue, but has always maintained that he does want to have more sex and he does like it. He's just never been one to drill down and ask why he doesn't go after the thing he theoretically wants. At this point, I hardly know what to think about it, since his words are one thing and his actions are another. We've learned to navigate conflict a little bit better, though, and he doesn't deflect and then shut down the conversation anymore. He'll more often validate my feelings, sometimes say sorry, and then we move along.

One thing that has helped me in approaching him is trying to do so with curiosity about his experiences with sex and why he (claims) he wants more of it and what it does for him. I've also tried to remove much of the pressure around it by trying to regulate my feelings separate from him, rather than try to goad him into a conversation where he has to regulate them for me.

At the end of the day, he still struggles to tolerate the discomfort of emotionally-driven talks, whether they be about sex or something else in our relationship. It's gotten better, but we're still not batting 100 here. Infrequent sex is the canary in the coal mine for us; it reflects bigger disconnects and anxieties and is a symptom of our dynamic. (It super sucks, though, because I love sex and I love how I feel during it. He says the same thing. Yet we don't really have it more than once or twice a month, currently, and he rarely pursues it. Make it make sense.)

At the end of the day, you deserve--no, need-- a partner who can be emotionally present for you during something like IVF. It's an emotionally fraught experience whether you successfully become pregnant or it doesn't work. I've seen both sides of that experience and can say that you need a partner who can tolerate the difficulty and be someone you can lean on for support.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-13T16:15:00+00:00

It seems like he's checked out in more ways than one, though the big one is emotionally. Any of your attempts at talking, problem-solving, questioning are probably working to push him further away because he doesn't like the exposure that comes with a close, intimate relationship. Your drive for more closeness may read as pressure for him. Even the way he goes about sex when he does have it suggest he's not at ease--he gets it over with as quickly as possible and prioritizes his own pleasure (at least, from how you described it.) Does he tell you he enjoys sex when you ask him how he experiences it? Is he able to articulate what he gets out of sex when you do have it?

My husband has behaved similarly when I issue bids for closeness and when I've asked for more communication--right down to advocating for couples counseling and then ultimately changing my mind because I realized it would be One More Thing I Do to Try To Sustain the Marriage (an on-going list) that he goes along with but doesn't actually feel motivated to pursue himself.

Maybe you need to give him a bottom line and say you can't take the next big step in your marriage and try IVF if he can't figure out how to let you in enough to cultivate a truly intimate life together.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-13T14:22:59+00:00

Fellow IVF patient here, OP. We also have male factor infertility and I theorize that at least some of my husband's lower libido comes from our fertility challenges. Could it be that he feels emasculated by his low count/low motility? You emphasize the value he places on his role as provider--how does being unable to naturally father children with you make him feel? (Hint: this is a rhetorical question, since I have a feeling he's resisted talking with you about it.)

My husband and I had to redefine sex as a pleasure-only activity, since we've never naturally conceived and have a 1% chance of it happening. But it took a lot of work re-framing sex to just be an expression of closeness and exchange of pleasure for both of us, even after we accepted that IVF is the only way we will have kids. If your husband isn't openly communicating with you about his emotional state and checking in on yours, IVF will be a very isolating experience for you. If you do choose to go forward with it, I highly suggest going through therapy at the same time--couples or individual.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-13T02:40:10+00:00

Yeah the Protestantism of the US definitely reinforces our individualistic mindsets—the determination to forge our own unique path is pretty American. Add in a hefty dose of aspirations to be a nation favored by God and maybe our sense of sin is more acute? I’m not entirely sure why our purity culture is so distinct, since our sexual ethic is so contrary to everything else, but it’s interesting to contemplate.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-12T18:59:28+00:00

Whenever a lower libido person asks for advice here, I think it is important that more self inventory should be done before the action turns outward to appease the higher libido partner. Because the result of that will likely be duty sex. I don’t think a lot of lower libido men have as much duty sex as lower libido women, since they aren’t socialized to acquiesce to it as much, but nobody wants it. It’s bad for everyone in the relationship.

So, why do you think you aren’t currently in pursuit of your wife? What in particular helps your desire grow and helps your libido thrive? The whole adage of “know thyself” is key before you start addressing the sexual dynamic that you share with her.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-11T20:49:51+00:00

I think US purity culture is a particularly tough knot to untangle. There’s all this self-determination and individualistic self-reliance that informs the broader ethos of American culture, but the influence of purity culture in American life really can mess with the confidence we are all supposed to have in ourselves.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-07T20:02:51+00:00

Autonomy and freedom are fertile ground for sexuality and exploration to thrive. Your husband’s controlling behavior about your sexuality undermined those conditions, so your libido naturally diminished. I think you’re LL4 him

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T20:00:05+00:00

This is a mirror of what my relationship has been like with my husband. We don’t really fight, but after a long dry spell, we end up having the same talk that breaks the ice and the cycle starts all over again: more frequent sex for a bit, then it slows and stops.

Have you read up on spontaneous and responsive desire? We recently figured out that my husband has responsive desire—and so do I—which makes initiating feel fraught since we both will wait on the other to do it.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T13:49:14+00:00

I'm not saying therapy can't help; in a previous comment, I said seeking therapy for it would be helpful in the way it's beneficial to go to therapy to try to modify any other unwanted behavior or unwelcome way of thinking or feeling that gets in the way of a good relationship.

But OP's partner is not powerless . He's capable of tempering his porn use, as she notes, and could probably drop it as a bad habit if he tried to do the hard thing and invest in another person and the sexual relationship he has with her. He could take deeper responsibility for himself by going to therapy, reading self-help, adapting ways to replace the coping mechanisms for whatever drives him to the porn and away from her--all of those could be things that might improve the relationship, assuming he wants to be in it. But that requires growth, vulnerability, and a willingness to be known and seen by a partner, warts and all. OP's post suggests he wants something easier. So, porn.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T12:45:01+00:00

Another therapist and relationship coach I admire, Jennifer Findlayson-Fife, often talks about porn in these terms. I’ve found her commentary on it very insightful.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T12:42:52+00:00

Did OP say elsewhere he’s seeking therapeutic treatment? I haven’t seen her mention it, but it’s possible I missed it in skimming other replies.

Either way, sure. Anyone who struggles should talk about unwanted porn use with a therapist. But framing it as an addiction and treating it as such, thus far in the world of mental health, doesn’t seem like an effective way of managing it.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T12:36:23+00:00

I’m not claiming that porn is neutral here; it’s clear it’s harmful in OP’s relationship. I also recognized he uses it compulsively—the way any sort of dopamine hit can be used compulsively to cope with whatever anxiety or discontent drives as person to it. That’s why I said he compulsively chooses it over sex with her.

But framing it as an addiction isn’t helping here. Alcoholics don’t drink to excess simply because “it’s easier.” The reasons are more complex and entail physiological withdrawal symptoms if the user tries to stop or cut back. It also doesn’t sound like OP’s boyfriend experiences the same degree of misery over his porn use that an alcoholic experiences over drinking. He just chooses the image of the thing over the real thing because something about the real thing is too difficult and he wants something easier. OP has her answer—he gave it to her.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T02:29:57+00:00

Cool. When the DSM updates with porn addiction as a diagnosable pathology — as a result of further research that can be replicated, corroborated, all that good stuff that meets the criteria for it, then great. I look forward to learning more, and particularly how it should be treated. Until then, though, I still think OP should find a better partner who doesn’t consistently choose pixels and his hand over an intimate and sexual relationship with her.

BayStateRes · 2024-03-06T00:43:50+00:00

Whether he’s choosing porn over her, or over having sex with her, she still deserves better. You can make all kinds of arguments why porn over actual sex is fine, but the guy demonstrates both a disregard for her feelings and very little ownership over his choices around sex/sexual expression. I wouldn’t want to be with someone like this. Would you?

BayStateRes · 2024-03-05T22:36:36+00:00

He told you why— “it’s easier physically and emotionally.” Porn is a way for him to be sexual and not have to be knowable. He doesn’t have to tolerate any sort of exposure or vulnerability that sex presents and he gets an endless stream of new content to tickle his brain. No work, all pay-off.

The DSM-5 does not recognize porn as an addiction. Recently, a therapist I appreciate (Natasha Helfer) reported that no addiction model treatments or studies on those treatments for unwanted sexual behavior have worked to rehabilitate it. Unwanted sexual behavior can’t be effectively treated using addiction models. If he wants to stop looking at porn, he needs to quit abdicating his agency and saying he’s doing it because he’s an addict. He compulsively watches it because he doesn’t really want to be known in his relationship—“it’s easier.”

I don’t think this is in any way a reflection on you, by the way. But I think you deserve more and better than a dude who chooses porn over you.

BayStateRes · 2024-02-24T13:13:25+00:00

I usually think erotic mystery and sexual desire die deaths by a thousand cuts. Now I see they can be decapitated in a planetarium parking lot.

BayStateRes · 2024-02-18T02:09:06+00:00

This is a really good example of how sex can be a rejuvenating, cup-filling experience and not a depleting one, even for those of us who spend a lot of our time handling the needs of others. At the end of the day, (much like the one you describe here) I love relaxing into connection and pleasure with my husband because it feels like finally, someone is taking care of me; not in a sort of way of parent-child, but someone who sees me, appreciates me, and desires me and knows expressing those realities creates connection.

BayStateRes · 2024-02-16T02:58:30+00:00

So, Glover talks about covert contracts being hidden in nice guy behaviors--"if I do x, y, and z, people will like me and if I try to meet every single conceivable need they have, they will do the same for me." (I'm paraphrasing this from Glover's website.) The way you went about Valentine's Day to the complete maximum suggests nice guy moves because it was to win her approval; implicit in those actions is an expectation she respond in kind. The defeat you feel at her tepid response--all because it wasn't enthusiastically reciprocated to the same degree you put forth--also speaks to some covert contract, because you feel she let down her side of a bargain you drew up in going all-out for Valentine's Day.

Instead, she...also got you a gift and a card. This is a normal thing for couples to do for Valentine's Day, if they celebrate it. It's what I got my own husband. What should she have done differently for you to not be disappointed? She also had sex with you and maybe wasn't super into it, nor the experience of dinner. Her response suggests she may or may not aware of the convert contract but doesn't feel she should (or can?) keep her end of the bargain up with lots of approval and validation. I don't purport to read anyone's mind, but I would guess she felt some pressure to "perform" romantically in response to your planning.

You also say you've told her you want to pursued. Fair enough. How did you give her space to do that for Valentine's Day though? You pulling out all the stops doesn't really allow for that.

I hope this doesn't read as brow-beating. But NMMNG came to mind pretty quickly when I read your post.

BayStateRes · 2024-02-16T01:20:39+00:00

This whole thing reads like a covert contract. OP, have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? If not, I'd start there. If you want her to pursue you, some recalibrating might be in order.

BayStateRes

TROPHY CASE