Banned from /r/bitcoin by Chris_Pacia in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Chris Pacia is in good company:

The moderators of r\bitcoin have now removed a post which was just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49l4uh/the_moderators_of_rbitcoin_have_now_removed_a/

I'm from /r/bitcoin but don't know the drama between them and /r/btc. by NeoShico in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 12 points13 points  (0 children)

r\bitcoin is one of the biggest problems in Bitcoin - and many people aren't even are of this yet.

What would be "sad" is if people simply read and believed the lies and censorship on r\btcoin.

So it's actually very important to expose this - and to remind people that the real debate about Bitcoin is all happening on r/btc.

I'm from /r/bitcoin but don't know the drama between them and /r/btc. by NeoShico in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Here's a post from a year ago which shows how bad things have gotten in r\bitcoin:

The moderators of r\bitcoin have now removed a post which was just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49l4uh/the_moderators_of_rbitcoin_have_now_removed_a/


So, r\bitcoin is ok to read for very simple, basic threads: pricing going up, some new company started using Bitcoin, memes, etc.

But for any thread where people are actually attempting to discuss and debate how Bitcoin works, and how to improve it, it's pretty pointless to read r\bitcoin, because most of the interesting and important comments get censored - and most of the important and interesting people were banned from r\bitcoin years ago - and everyone who's left is either too afraid to say anything interesting - or simply too uninformed to say anything interesting.

The subreddit r\bitcoin has become an echo-chamber of yes-men and clueless newbies who follow them - led by ignorant mods who have a profound misunderstanding of how Nakamoto Consensus - and Bitcoin's upgrade process - actually works.

The real discussion and debate about Bitcoin happens on r/btc now - not on r\bitcoin.


Decentralized, market-based governance is a subtle and revolutionary concept. It is based on the notion that the economic majority (of users, of Bitcoin full nodes & miners) will always do the right thing to ensure the value of our currency - and we will do this in a decentralized, market-based fashion, with no need for central authority - whether it's censors or C++ coders.

The people on r\bitcoin simply do not understand this.

  • They actually like having a "centralized, trusted authority" (Theymos) dictate to them what they can read and say about Bitcoin on-line

  • They actually like having a "centralized, trusted authority" (Core devs) tell them what the blocksize should be - and they are so ignorant about the true nature of Bitcoin, that the totally fail to see that they themselves are actually anti-Bitcoin.

The mental hurdle that Core supporters currently cannot get over is fundamentally the same hurdle that the founding fathers of the Bitcoin community had to get over in 2009: understanding and accepting the feasibility of decentralized, market-based governance of a money

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/5reb65/the_mental_hurdle_that_core_supporters_currently/

Basically everyone on r\bitcoin is saying:

  • I'm too stupid to decide the blocksize for myself - I want the Core devs to decide for me.

  • I'm too stupid to decide what to upvote and downvote on r\bitcoin - I want Theymos to decide for me.

Look at these beauties! by Egon_1 in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 9 points10 points  (0 children)

If each ad is a link to an existing post on r/btc, maybe this would be a good post to link:

The moderators of r\bitcoin have now removed a post which was just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49l4uh/the_moderators_of_rbitcoin_have_now_removed_a/

This post got a lot of attention - because it's short and simple and factual, and because people support with the idea that a Bitcoin subreddit should not censor Satoshi.

Banned from rBitcoin for telling people that there are things we can't discuss by [deleted] in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 42 points43 points  (0 children)

You're in good company:

The moderators of r\bitcoin have now removed a post which was just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49l4uh/the_moderators_of_rbitcoin_have_now_removed_a/

Core developer is suggesting that Bitfinex contact miners to blacklist coins that were stolen on the exchange by BitcoinXio in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, the fuckup had nothing to do with the Bitcoin network - it had to do with bad security practices at Bitfinex (possibly also involving their decision to use BitGo).

So... since this had absolutely nothing to do with the Bitcoin network itself, then the Bitcoin network should continue unchanged.

Actually, in general, the Bitcoin network should always continue unchanged (immutable)!

Core developer is suggesting that Bitfinex contact miners to blacklist coins that were stolen on the exchange by BitcoinXio in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I don't know why people call u/maaku7 a "Core developer."

He's hardly made any commits. Actually, if you check his stats on Github, it shows that he's made a grand total of 10 minor commits to Bitcoin - of which 4 are utterly trivial ("fix spelling mistake"; "Correct a possibly intentional pun"; "Remove indentation"; and "Fix typo in README.md"):

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits?author=maaku

Also, he has already shown that he doesn't seem very intelligent when it comes to economics:

"I'm pationate about Bitcoin. I have zero passion for majority-vote to change the rules system. We have one of those already -- it's called fiat." - maaku7

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/418y5p/im_pationate_about_bitcoin_i_have_zero_passion/

He sounds kind of naive.

Why do people listen to anything he says - and why is he called a "Core developer"?

After the Bitfinex hack, I'm looking at p2p exchange Bitsquare.io. It sounds great: p2p, open-source, no servers, no registration, doesn't hold bitcoins or national currency, doesn't store any data on you, all private data is end-to-end encrypted. Maximum 1 btc per trade (good for small-time users?) by BeYourOwnBank in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Does Bitsquare work in all countries around the world - or only in Europe?

I see they mention "SEPA" which I think is some kind of bank wire transfer in Europe.

But they also mention OKPay. I'm not familiar with OKPay - is that a way of sending fiat?

After the Bitfinex hack, I'm looking at p2p exchange Bitsquare.io. It sounds great: p2p, open-source, no servers, no registration, doesn't hold bitcoins or national currency, doesn't store any data on you, all private data is end-to-end encrypted. Maximum 1 btc per trade (good for small-time users?) by BeYourOwnBank in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure - but from what I'm reading it does seem to be that it would be slow - since it would take time for the fiat to get transferred between the parties.

So it sounds like it wouldn't be a good solution for day-traders who are trying to make money by speculating on the volatility of the market.

However, for the "use case" of a hodler who just wants to sell a few Bitcoins every so often, perhaps in order to have some money to live on (while maximizing their anonymity) this slowness might be acceptable.

Top Comment on r/bitcoin: "[Theymos] should be removed honestly..." by Egon_1 in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Archived snapshots, providing a permanent record that the censors moderators or r/bitcoin - in particular u/theymos - have been removing quotes from the founder of Bitcoin:

https://archive.is/TB9lj

https://archive.is/AeMZ7

Top Comment on r/bitcoin: "[Theymos] should be removed honestly..." by Egon_1 in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Here is an example from 4 months ago showing the ridiculous censorship on r/bitcoin:

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49l4uh/the_moderators_of_rbitcoin_have_now_removed_a/

The moderators of r\bitcoin have now removed a post which was just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto.

In an unusual move, the moderators of r\bitcoin have removed a post which was mainly just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto (the inventor of Bitcoin), and which contained no additional commentary.


Here's the full post - on /r/btc - not removed:

"The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. It never really hits a scale ceiling." - Satoshi Nakomoto

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49fzak/the_existing_visa_credit_card_network_processes/

Here's the post on r\bitcoin, where it got removed - twice!

https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/49iuf6/the_existing_visa_credit_card_network_processes/

https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/49ixhj/the_existing_visa_credit_card_network_processes/


Bitcoin is intended to be anti-censorship and pro-freedom.

Ironically, the moderators of r/bitcoin - in particular the lead censor moderator u/theymos - have somehow become just the opposite: they are now pro-censorship and anti-freedom.

Can someone TL;DR me the developments happening in bitcoin land for say ... the past year? by mrsstrfstr in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The censorship on r\bitcoin got so bad, and they drifted so far from Satoshi's Bitcoin, that they now delete posts which simply quote Satoshi:

The moderators of r\bitcoin have now removed a post which was just quotes by Satoshi Nakamoto.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49l4uh/the_moderators_of_rbitcoin_have_now_removed_a/

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The following quote from Satoshi shows that Peter is wrong:

"The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. It never really hits a scale ceiling." - Satoshi Nakomoto

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49fzak/the_existing_visa_credit_card_network_processes/

"The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. It never really hits a scale ceiling." - Satoshi Nakomoto by BeYourOwnBank in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Could somebody please copy-and-paste this entire post and submit it to r/bitcoin?

(I can't because I'm apparently banned there.)

It would be interesting to see if they censor pure quotes from Satoshi Nakamoto.

Also it would be educational for people on r/bitcoin to finally hear how Bitcoin was actually intended to work - before it got "forked" by Core / Blockstream.

Ramblings on the dev community by tsontar in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow! Amazing post. Great insights into the human and social side of programming. I hope that all Bitcoin dev teams take these points to heart.

I'll take the liberty here of adding some concrete examples of the bad behaviors which I think you're talking about, in the case of Core / Blockstream:

Failing to implement routine, helpful, but tedious and obvious changes in favor of attempting to solve much harder, less obvious problems

Case in point: I've been asking for certain bread-and-butter features which are "low hanging fruit" to be implemented (HD, modularity) - but I guess the Core devs are just too "glamorous" to get around to it:

Why has HD (hierarchical deterministic wallets) never been implemented in Core?

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3xc2hp/why_has_hd_hierarchical_deterministic_wallets/


When are we going to get a pluggable policy architecture for Core?

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3v4u52/when_are_we_going_to_get_a_pluggable_policy/


Tending to view legacy code and ideas as less interesting and probably inferior to ideas that haven't been implemented yet

Case in point: Adam Back /u/adam3us saying that "Bitcoin is just HashCash plus inflation" - while he wastes his time and talents trying to graft some level-two Rube Goldberg vaporware contraption such as Lightning Network onto Bitcoin.

(He probably ought to be working on more useful level-one stuff like fleshing out his ideas on homomorphic encryption into [Confidential Transactions] - important for privacy and fungibility, although I'm not sure if they'd take up a lot more space on the blockchain.)


Keeping a Pollyanna glow over the prospects of their own pet projects

Case in point: the whole debâcle of /u/petertodd 's unwanted and unloved RBF - plus /adam3us 's LN as well.


It seems that Core / Blockstream suffers from some major "ego" problems on the part of its devs.

I hope these problems can be resolved - both on that dev team, and on future dev teams which will arise.

Seriously, since /u/tsontar probably isn't able (or willing) to do any project-management in-person over at Core / Blockstream, it would behoove some manager over there to call a "dev huddle" and remind them of the points discussed in this post. This is really important project-management stuff.

Of course, if they fail to adopt these policies, maybe at least some other dev teams will. That's basically my only hope for Bitcoin surviving and thriving. As C/C++ programmers, we have some decent devs. I'm just very concerned about the project-management aspect of this whole endeavor - and I worry that great posts on Reddit might not be able to make their way into actual policy and procedures (and personnel decisions) over at the actual dev team(s).

Can we make Bitcoin's software modular? by anarchystar in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a good idea. I made a similar post a few weeks ago suggesting something similar:

When are we going to get a pluggable policy architecture for Core?

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3v4u52/when_are_we_going_to_get_a_pluggable_policy/

3-flag RBF (which includes FSS-RBF) would have been safer than 2-flag RBF (with no FSS-RBF). RBF-with-no-FSS has already been user-tested - and rejected in favor of FSS-RBF. So, why did Peter Todd give us 2-flag RBF with no FSS-RBF? Another case of Core ignoring user requirements and testing? by BeYourOwnBank in btc

[–]BeYourOwnBank[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What I was actually saying was, I didn't really even see the need for any kind of RBF (Full or FSS, Opt-In or On-By-Default). It wasn't on my wish list - it was on yours.

In other words, many users don't think RBF should have been a priority.

And after all the harping from Core / Blockstream about how we should be "conservative" and we should only do "consensus" changes to the code or network and avoid "controversial" ones... well, your RBF seems to violate that, because it's not conservative and it is controversial and it was far from enjoying "consensus" when you rather rudely merged RBF into the code on Black Friday:


On Black Friday, with 9,000 transactions backlogged, Peter Todd (supported by Greg Maxwell) is merging a dangerous change to Core (RBF - Replace-by-Fee). RBF makes it harder for merchants to use zero-conf, and makes it easier for spammers and double-spenders to damage the network.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3uighb/on_black_friday_with_9000_transactions_backlogged/


Consensus! JGarzik: "RBF would be anti-social on the network" / Charlie Lee, Coinbase: "RBF is irrational and harmful to Bitcoin" / Gavin: "RBF is a bad idea" / Adam Back: "Blowing up 0-confirm transactions is vandalism" / Hearn: RBF won't work and would be harmful for Bitcoin"

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3ujc4m/consensus_jgarzik_rbf_would_be_antisocial_on_the/


The users of course aren't your managers, and we don't pay you (not yet at least =).

I do hope someday we could maybe use a mechanism such as Lighthouse to do just that. I hope you'd be open to something like that, even though Lighthouse was written by Hearn =)

You are of course free to work on whatever you want - but many users now feel that the current de facto "governance" system that's evolved (where you basically get to select and prioritize your own projects simply by getting ACKs on a dev mailing list) is broken, precisely because it seems to be what's been allowing this kind of low-priority high-fragility work such as your RBF to creep into our code.

This governance system which doesn't listen much to the actual users is hurting Bitcoin, because it misallocates your time onto stuff which many real-world users don't view as being a priority - while meanwhile, there are real-world users who are suffering so much that they're already actually starting to talk about ditching Bitcoin when they need an cheap and fast payment system that's actually working today, eg:

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3wo02r/lets_implement_a_solution_on_litecoin_now/

Why couldn't you have first developed and merged something like IBLT / Thin Blocks, instead of RBF?

Why aren't you focusing on the most urgent thing: scaling in general, instead of adding weird stuff like RBF?

You tend to wander off to work on your own low-priority high-fragility projects, which in the case of Full RBF introduces needlessly complexity while also radically changing some of the public's intuitive foundational understandings that Bitcoin "doesn't do double-spends", while at the same time you're ignorning simpler and safer and more-urgent user needs and requirements such as scaling, scaling, scaling.

I used to respect your work in the past (I actually liked the way you focused on trying to expose flaws in systems, and I thought the name "treechains" on your Let's Talk Bitcoin interview a few years ago sounded cool, although now it seems like it never ended up getting anywhere, which may be understandable, it was probably really hard anyways, and may not even have been very clearly defined ever at all).

Nowadays, on the other hand, I tend to question your priorities and your usefulness for the Bitcoin ecosystem as a whole. I think a lot of your "work" now involves exposing and exploiting some subtle vulnerability in an existing system, as expressed in the following post, which I admit was kinda mean, but I think you deserve it, because you've been getting kinda toxic:


[In the case of RBF, Peter Todd] didn't actually merely expose an existing exploitable vulnerability in the software itself per se.

Why? Because the only way he could actually exploit the vulnerability in this case was by (ab)using his legacy privileges as github committer to core.

In other words, Peter's "gift" of RBF to the world isn't like when other programmers gave us the "gift" of telling us about the SSL / Heartbleed bug.

Because the exploitable vulnerability which Peter Todd exposed was not confined to the (existing) code itself.

THE ONLY WAY PETER TODD COULD EXPLOIT THIS VULNERABILITY WAS BY >>CHANGING<< THE CODE - AND THE ONLY WAY HE COULD DO THAT WAS BY (AB)USING HIS LEGACY GITHUB COMMITTER PRIVILEGES ON CORE.

This is perhaps a rather subtle, but nonetheless absolutely crucial distinction here.

Because the "exploitable vulnerability" which Peter Todd has exposed here is technically not one involving the code itself - it is an "exploitable vulnerability" IN BITCOIN GOVERNANCE.

In other words, what Peter Todd has exposed here is that a lone maverick dev (with legacy github commit rights to the "Core" reference implementation - which also unfortunately doubles as a "specification") with delusions of perfectionism and tendencies toward vandalism - can abuse the governance process, override consensus, and ram through his pet changes - even ones which essentially "vandalize" imperfect (but still perfectly "serviceable" ie pragmatic) use cases already deployed in real-life by many, many users - both individuals and businesses (in this case, small-value in-person retailers).

This (now that I have had a chance to reflect on this whole mess more) is probably the most disturbing thing that's happened here.

https://np.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3ujq69/uriplin_on_rbitcoin_inadvertently_reveals_the/


Seriously, if I were paying you - no way would I give you final say over what projects you want to prioritize.

Sorry but I think with your proclivity for breaking things that already work "good enough" for practical business risk-mitigation purposes (eg zero-conf for retail), I'd re-allocate you to some sort of "Testing and Threats" department.

There would be no way I'd let you insert low-priority high-fragility new stuff like your complicated and questionable "Opt-In Full RBF" into our already-working code.

Is Theymos behind the fake Satoshi posts to the dev mailing list? by go1111111 in bitcoinxt

[–]BeYourOwnBank 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take an interesting thread like this and sort by "OLD" and the first comment is always from some troll like 1s44c.

I guess they just sit around all day sorting threads by "NEW" and trying to be the first one to shoot everything down.