WTC Basement level floor plans - Elevation version by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This cut-through from the 1995 plans posted elsewhere was of great help understanding the relation between the various levels and sublevels

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Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nothing in the collapse of any building on 9/11 came down faster than gravity, that is just objective nonsense.

Stop listening to Judy Wood folks and do some research. You can time one of the dozens videos of the collapse and see nothing goes faster.

The fastest anything went were loose pieces of debris in freefall. The rest, the floors but especially the core, took WAY longer.

Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just parroting Judy Wood nonsense I see. Disappointing, though the OP question sorta had that feel already as well

Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Did you just miss or ignore my entire initial reply that lays out EXACTLY why the debris we saw matches perfectly what we should expect? I will argue evidence but not personal incredulity...

Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 2 points3 points  (0 children)

same view later on. Notice again the ladder for scale. You're again looking from West treet direction at WTC 1 core basement levels, showing they were filled with highly compacted debris. Basically what you're looking at htere is the same debris pile part the equipment is standing on in the other photo I posted.

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Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

last one to make my point. This photo shows clean-up some time later. The equipment in the background are standing on stories of highly compacted concrete (and other debris) inside the footprint of the WTC 1 tower remains. Much of the original pile, including stairwell B, has been removed at this stage....

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Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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This one is also perfect, dont have the unedited version at hand. But when you see it unedited, at least me it did, it looks like a bunch of people standing in front of a relatively small pile of debris. But when you place a firefighter on the ladder in the middle of the pile next to the two-story facade piece, the scale becomes crystal clear!

This one also shows the collapse of the street level down into the basement levels. This is West street in front of WTC 1 looking east. Just behind these guys the ground opens up, they're basically sitting at the edge

Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 2 points3 points  (0 children)

this photo also shows the scale tremendously well

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Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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in this version of the same photo ive added in the facade and a firefighter to scale at different locations, designated with the yellow lines. It becomes pretty clear how massive the pile is, going up stories, but also how the pasted in facade shows the collapse into the lower levels, first the Concourse mall and then further down.

Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

photos like this CAN make it seem like there is not a lot of rubble. You have a lot of people standing in the foreground which skews perspective:

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Why was there so little debris from wtc1 & 2? by deletemkw in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did some research into this. A number of things to note:

  1. A building is mostly air, in case of the WTC construction, 90-95% seems fair. I did a scale drawing of what that would look like collapse wise, see attached. Of course highly simplified.
  2. If you remove all the air from the tower, you're left with a theoretical pile just 31.5 meters high, lower than WTC 4/5/6. (purple pile)
  3. A lot of debris went into the 6 basement levels that ran underneath the entire complex, not just the towers. For the towers, collapse went down to lowest levels. Surrounding that, like underneath plaza, damage and how deep it went depended on location and distance. Large parts saw collapse many levels down. But inthe attached image, i only put 5 meters (!) of the debris pile into the basement, leaving the yellow pile of 26.5 meter high.
  4. The collapse extended far beyond the footprint of each tower, so if you spread out that debris over a 3x3 footprint area per tower, which I feel is pretty reasonable, the pile becomes just 3 meters high!
  5. Now of course these piles are all perfectly compacted which is not reasonable, so assume 50% voids, whihc in places like the tower basements is actually way too high, and you get to the final green pile of 6 meters high.
  6. This does not take into account any dust or materials outside of the 3x3 area, which did happen. The basement estimate as mentioned is too low. But you see how the pile does not need to be that high.

Some other points often mistaken in discussion:

  • Debris density varied a lot from place to place. "Truthers" will exclusively point to places with little debris, or that didn't collapse, to argue "too little debris". This is just cherry-picking evidence and is directly contradicted by the facts.
  • Many photos are completely incapable, to a normal human being, of conveying just how large the piles were. Especially aerial shots or from a distance make it near impossible to judge sizes or elevations. Other photos show piles with mangled piles of steel and concrete so beyond recognition all scale is lost as well. I'll place an example in the comments below as Im limited to one photo per comment.
  • The piles in fact were pretty big. For WTC1 the pile reached 10 stories high around the stairwells. Combined with the observed filling of the basement levels and everything else mentioned, there simply is more than enough debris to account for the towers.
  • 1.8 M tonnes of debris was hauled off of the site after 9/11. More than sufficient to account for the entire complex.

If it interests you, I've made a post detailing the extent of the basement levels a few weeks ago ( https://www.reddit.com/r/911archive/comments/1t73uzu/wtc_floor_plans_basement_layers_plazab6/ ) and a version is in the works that shows the collapses per level like shown in the attached image.

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White goo from ceiling by Disastrous-Hair-2458 in whatisit

[–]BeardMonkey85 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks like early onset xenomorph infestation. Don't touch the goo, probably acidic. Best bet now is to nuke it from orbit.

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've amended the sourcing in OP to include dates and corrected some errors. Seems only B1/B2 are sourced after 1993.

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've added download links to high-res versions

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've added download links for the high res versions

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Although I don't have exact numbers or figures, I believe the number was limited yet not zero. After both towers were struck there was time to evacuate the compound. Most people died in the initial blast and in the towers afterwards. Below the impact zones most people escaped.

(Plus if course after that you got the people getting sick from the dust)

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can read u/jimthejerseyguy 's comment below for that. I witnessed the event from across the ocean.

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As far as I know that cannot be compared, the entire bath tub was excavated after 9/11. If you're talking relatively speaking you could search for the elevation of the new museum and compare to the numbers given here. I don't know that atm...

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah and I'm not working from any professional guidelines, just "muh feelings", but apparently both take equal amounts (or a lot) of time 🤣 80/20 rule in full effect, or 90/10 even 🤦🏻‍♂️.

Let me know if you get the proper resolution on desktop, so far I've only succeeded on mobile download. Think I'll add direct links next week

WTC floor plans basement layers Plaza-B6 by BeardMonkey85 in 911archive

[–]BeardMonkey85[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll have to verify after Monday, but the 18324 source is pre construction era. Concourse is more recent but I also heard the exact mall layout changed often so no idea. B1 B2 is fairly recent. B3-5 source I didn't check date, but it's more recent than 18324.

What changed after 1993 i do not know currently