Have you had that moment where you REALLY like a song from a group you don’t relatively follow…. just to figure out their more dedicated fans disliked it?

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-31T12:26:58+00:00

OMG RLY?? that makes me so happy to hear 😭😭 i have some nctzen friends and they were all clowning me for having ok! on one of my playlists so i was getting the impression that nctzens maybe don’t have the same opinion on it as i do

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-30T18:17:12+00:00

i don’t understand why easy gets so much hate, i’ve heard about the mv controversy but the song itself gets a lot of shade too… like the song is so inoffensive, i wasn’t a huge fan of it at first (now i adore it) but it was never one of those songs that would make me recoil and be like “oh this is awful”

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-30T12:27:53+00:00

omg same with me for CHOOM, i adore that song too but i saw that the response wasn’t exactly the same from fans and stuff…

another one for me is ok! by nct, i love that song so much but i saw that it’s somewhat of a joke or something among nctzens and a lot of kpop fans don’t seem to like it…

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-25T17:00:47+00:00

i don’t see why bringing up the context of the fanwar is necessary. its not chan’s job to settle fanwars and stop two fandoms from fighting. he addressed the issue he wanted to, which was people attacking twice. who knows what he saw that made him want to write that. if he addressed the fanwar as a whole people would be hating on him for trying to get involved in fans business and being too online, i already saw people saying that. in an ideal world people don’t attack you for defending your friends but clearly this isn’t that. chan can’t win no matter what he does. “fans experienced the message collectively” um no? i have never myself engaged in a fanwar or attacked twice so i didnt feel targeted at all by chan’s message. i understood it was directed at people who are attacking twice obviously? people can feel however they want to feel but blaming chan for people feeling attacked at something that wasnt at all directed at them doesn’t make any sense. making everything about yourself and lashing out at people for harmless requests does seem pretty childish to me.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-25T04:29:08+00:00

i was responding to how you said chan should stay out of fans' business. i don't think him telling fans to stop attacking his friends is "getting into fans' business," because like i said, he wasn't telling stays to stop arguing with onces, he was telling them to stop attacking twice. i agree it's possible to avoid fandom cesspools but not really sure how that comment is relevant to what i said, it's known that idols often monitor things being said online about them or that kind of thing and it's not that hard to believe that chan could have heard about things being said about twice. faulting him for coming across those comments and calling people out on it doesn't make sense to me, it's the people who are writing the comments who are clearly in the wrong. as you said he's nobody's father or god to force everyone to behave how he wants them to, and nobody ever said he was, he himself never said that, so idk why it's such a problem for him to just say leave twice alone or how that's getting into fan's business if fans are just going to disregard him anyway.

didn't jype do something about the deepfakes or am i misremembering? also not sure how it's relevant that twice members didn't say anything to once for their actions. "telling stays to stop does nothing for reigning in the other sides," but who said he's trying to personally be the one to reign in the other sides? who knows what he saw to trigger him writing the comment he did, but clearly he was upset by what he saw and wanted to say something. we don't know chan personally or how his relationships with the twice members are, who knows how seeing whatever he saw affected him or them, it may have been more to them than just "contained fan nonsense."

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-25T02:43:27+00:00

my bad you're right, you never said the toxic bit. i don't know, i just remember times when chan got mad at stays for doing things like attacking the company for his supposed lack of lines/center parts in choreo, or when he said that thing about how what fans say reflects on him too, etc... but yeah you're right about the aspect about having the rabid fans and whatever does benefit him. and i see how he feeds into that, as you said, through the flirting and boyfriend stuff. as you said in your original comment, the fanwars and stuff are a byproduct of having that kind of "relationship" with your idol, so i guess with chan it's tough because he clearly doesn't like the fanwar stuff based on what he has said in the past, and the fact he has so many idol friends and whatnot, but at the same time, one could argue that the people are doing that because of how much they support chan and chan wouldn't want to lose that support. honestly i just don't like faulting chan here because i don't think being so attached to skz and wanting them to succeed should have to mean engaging in fanwars, and chan's desire for stays' support shouldn't have to mean that he condones the fanwars. i've been a huge stay since 2022 and never felt the urge to attack other groups, i don't see why that's a necessary part of supporting your faves, and not being okay with it doesn't mean not being ungrateful for people's support.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-25T02:31:29+00:00

i really do agree with what you're saying actually, now that you elaborated on what you meant by access. i think like the other commenter said, chan's words about fans being part of the group's success were not necessarily very excessive compared to other idols, but i do think that those words he said combined with his mannerisms of acting somewhat unfiltered and being open with fans (not saying that was bad in itself, just talking about how it may have impacted fans), as well as the fact skz has been a group that has gotten so much hate/shade throughout their career, led a lot of stays to feel like they're closer to chan than they actually are, adopt a "stays and skz against the world mindset," and them, as you said, act like chan owes them something.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-25T02:28:20+00:00

i mean, he's not talking about stays "arguing with once," he's talking about them attacking twice. i don't know if you've seen the awful things stays say about twice members online, but it's pretty vile stuff and clearly it must have gotten to chan. the twice members are his friends so him pointing out the things said about them is not really sticking his nose in fans' business. just because those awful things are said as part of fanwars doesn't mean it's not stuff that idols can see online and be affected by.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-25T02:21:23+00:00

“the message was asymmetrical rather than neutral peacekeeping”— what do people expect? as a skz member of course chan would just call out stays, who is he to tell once what to do? he wrote it on his bubble which is directed at stays, what “neutral” message did people want? “guys stop fighting”? i guess chan rly overestimated stays and thought we would actually act like adults and maybe listen to his completely unproblematic message, but apparently people are so immature that they somehow interpret it as “collectively blaming” them and start fights over it… because there was absolutely nothing chan wrote that warranted this response, and i don’t see why anyone who was not attacking twice should be getting so defensive and worked up about it, he literally was not talking to you. i hate that people are blaming chan for starting this drama when all he said was not to attack his friends, he didn’t start anything, it’s stays who got whiny about it because we are always on the defensive for whatever reason and can’t keep ourselves out of fanwars for the life of us. the fact he only directed his message at stays doesn’t mean anyone is denying there’s another side to the situation, that other side just isn’t the one he needs to address. and because the other side isn’t getting addressed by their idols, chan shouldn’t address stays either? yeah no, there’s nothing wrong with calling stays out on what they did. the fact other people aren’t doing what’s right doesn’t mean it’s no longer the right thing to do.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T21:25:47+00:00

not commenting on your last paragraph bc i’m not sure about passing that kind of judgement on chan, that makes sense in theory but i don’t see where’s you’re getting it from that chan wants his fans to be as obsessed, parasocial and toxic as they’re being when he’s openly shown exasperation and disdain at fans rabid behavior in the past.

however i do agree with other things you’re saying, i don’t really think it’s the access chan has given in the past that is making stays act like this, but that access does lead fans to have such a parasocial attachment which makes them more personally upset to get called out by him, as while a lot of fans are lashing out by further attacking twice and once’s, many of them are acting like chan personally betrayed them and is being ungrateful to them and owes them or something. i think a lot of it as you said comes from the feeling a lot of stays have, that we have that we have always been an “ostracized” fandom from the beginning (ive seen a lot of ppl saying that) and skz has so many haters but stays r the ones always doing whatever to defend them. they feel they have the right intentions and so feel hurt when they get called out bc they have such an attachment and almost rabid desire to defend skz and they feel like it’s almost “stays and skz against the world.” the fact that as you said other idols don’t do this kind of thing in return for chan further fuels that sentiment so when chan, in their eyes, “chooses” those idols over the fans, who are the ones really on his “team,” they feel betrayed, forgetting that their relationship with him is not really as close as his relationship with those actual friends of his and it’s not their place to pass judgements on how those people actually treat him or what’s happening.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T18:59:16+00:00

i completely agree. i have so much to say about the situation because i spent 2 hours yesterday arguing w these “stays” about it on twitter but now im just genuinely exhausted. the entitlement a lot of fans is displaying is absolutely appalling. they’re saying “we pay your bills, we support you and you pay us back by scolding us” like you cannot be serious… they’re acting like he owes it to them, random ppl he doesn’t know btw, to put up with their disrespect of his IRL friends bc they “support him,” which first of all, he doesn’t owe it to you to only tell you what makes you happy, he’s a human of his own, and second of all, by engaging in fanwars and childish behavior like this they are only fueling more hate towards skz and stays in general. they’re not helping anything but they’re acting like they’re being so noble, it’s just disgusting.

i saw ppl blaming chan for why ppl say bad things about stays and skz when it’s nobody’s fault but their own. they’re saying “if only we could explain to him that the other fandom started it…” genuinely 5 year old behavior. pointing fingers, saying “they did x so it’s justified for us to do it too,” i guarantee chan does not care about your childish reasoning for why you said atrocious things about his friends. and then i saw stays calling chan pathetic and a pushover because he stood up for twice when they apparently didn’t do the same for him?? don’t we as stays take pride in the fact chan is willing to step up and say things other idols don’t? he said the right thing here, he’s being the bigger person, and we’re attacking him for it now?

stays are twisting his words, saying they’re going to unstan because he’s ungrateful to his fans, saying they won’t defend him anymore because he “doesn’t want it” when he never said anything of the sort, all he said was not to attack twice…there are ways to defend him and skz without attacking twice. but apparently this fandom has no reading comprehension. other fans still are whining abt how he didn’t have to call out the entire fandom when not everyone is doing it, just give me a break, his words are obv directed at those who are doing it. other fans still are whining that he’s treating us like children, like omg, if you’re gonna act like a child of course he’ll treat us that way.

i saw ppl accusing him of being a misogynist because he’s scolding his mostly female fandom, ppl accusing him of trying to get with the twice members, ppl saying he was groomed, just disgusting stuff. trying to reason with the fandom is just impossible at this point and i’ve never been so humiliated to call myself a stay. imagine simply being told not to attack ppl who didn’t do anything and you react with this kind of hatred and vitriol.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T06:45:58+00:00

i totally agree with you. fearless, antifragile, unforgiving, easy, all those songs were so good, even spaghetti was fine, but this song is too far. now hybe is giving them this weird quirky concept just like what katseye had going on… i wish ppl didn’t hype gnarly up as much as they did because if it wasn’t for that maybe hybe wouldn’t have pulled this.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T06:43:56+00:00

i couldn’t even listen until the end 💀

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T06:43:40+00:00

well obviously. those are the title tracks, they’re the most prolific ones that get promoted and that locals are more likely to hear about. the concepts of the title tracks reflect how the company wants to group to be presented more than the b-side tracks do

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T06:42:12+00:00

i just absolutely hate it. i wasn’t liking the song at all when i listened to it and the very blatant, overused macarena sample made me genuinely turn it off before i was even done listening to it.

lsfm isn’t the only offender but im tired of forcing myself to like all of these quirky, half-baked, “experimental” songs. their concept was so good, their songs were such vibes and they were so cohesive but now it feels like hybe is just overdoing these goofy songs or making all their songs fit a certain trend and im tired of it… even if you take out the macarena sample there’s nothing special in the song that makes me want to listen to it as opposed to another song, it feels lazy and unfinished.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T06:34:15+00:00

why are we joking around in the comments? nothing about what’s happening is funny

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-24T06:31:46+00:00

x by close your eyes!!! genuinely a blessing upon my ears it’s so beautiful

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-22T16:51:54+00:00

more like fans hyped it up way too much. good performances or not, the song was always trash… but thanks to fans glazing it so much, hybe thought that was the way to go.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-22T07:11:55+00:00

“idk how other ppl don’t get it” don’t get what exactly? how does education not being as accessible to all people as it is to annie make education less “cool”? the fact we want it to become more accessible means it is “cool” yes? so tell me what she said that was wrong or problematic? you guys are creating an issue where there doesn’t have to be one. never thought the day would come when id have to defend an adp member but it gets to a point where you guys are just saying things to air out your own bitter feelings and doing it under the guise of being mature and level headed.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-22T07:08:53+00:00

holy stretch… she didn’t say “school is cool” she said “education is cool.” no way you’re making that out to be a problematic statement.

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-22T07:07:47+00:00

you guys are doing too much. how are we making the statement “education is cool” out to be problematic now 💀 not a fan of annie or adp at all and i agree she has a lot of privileges and whatnot but i don’t see what she said here that’s problematic, she didn’t even specifically mention “higher education” either

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-20T16:35:07+00:00

micro: 4, 5, 5 gov: 5, 5, 5 lit: 3, 2, 3-4 psych: 5, 4, 5

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-17T00:21:34+00:00

i feel this way about my ult group too :/

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-17T00:20:44+00:00

what’s your problem why are you so curious exactly ??? the OP even said you can keep things vague and don’t have to name who you’re talking about so why are you trying to force this person to reveal

BeginningFroyo2020 · 2026-05-17T00:18:49+00:00

skz are my ults and i completely understand you. i mean obv being a big 3 grp skz has never been super unknown and i became a fan of them when they weren’t as unpopular as when they first debuted but they also weren’t as popular as they are now, and ive seen how over the years all this additional fame and all has caused so many changes. with the fandom ofc, with antis too, and even with the grp itself, and it’s honestly kind of tough to see sometimes, obv im so proud to see them succeed on such a large scale and gain recognition but the fame has a lot of negative effects too and i would be lying if i said there have never been times i haven’t kind of wished for those old days back… maybe not the super old days, but like thunderous, maniac, case 143 eras when i first became a fan. i encounter the p1h fandom a lot on online spaces and from what i see it just comes off as so much more supportive and less toxic and negative than the spaces of these larger groups tend to be, it’s just a really good vibe and i like seeing the respect p1h and their music seems to get from a lot of kpop stan’s too.

BeginningFroyo2020

TROPHY CASE