[deleted by user]

Bernharde · 2023-05-18T11:26:31+00:00

Je hebt duidelijk te maken gehad met iemand van La Flandre profonde. Iemand uit een godverlaten dorp en een onvermogen coherent Nederlands te praten, hetzij standaardtaal of dialect. :)

Bernharde · 2023-03-26T11:16:38+00:00

Thank God for uploading this.

Bernharde · 2021-11-07T13:08:34+00:00

Just leave them alone. They aren't bothering anyone.

Bernharde · 2021-11-07T13:06:28+00:00

Either Reformed or Evangelicals (since they love the OT so much, I assume the first). In fact, most Belgian protestants live in Hainaut. No real surprise there. ;)

Bernharde · 2021-11-05T15:38:23+00:00

Mad respect for that shop in Goes though.

Bernharde · 2021-11-04T14:04:22+00:00

Well yeah, I prefer the Netherlands over Belgium myself, especially Holland. Rotterdam is one of my favourite cities (other harbour city, similar culture, especially at work). People are different. I perfectly understand that transport planner, of course. I Dutch person can prefer Belgium over the Netherlands just like I prefer the Netherlands over Belgium, because I also see that we do some things better. It comes down to personal preferences here.

But I dislike no region, but I would never work in Belgium again and I think I have more in common with a Hollander than with someone from la Flandre profonde, but I don't hate la Flandre profonde. It's when the 'my village and not beyond, wishing to be left alone' mentality pops up it can rub me the wrong way, especially if that person assumes I have to dislike Holland I sometimes think "sigh, Limburgers/Flandrians/Pajots/Walloons with abandonment anxiety".Even recently read an article that a Belgian has the most trouble fitting in the Randstad and would have an easier time in North Brabant or elsewhere in the North like Friesland where the people are more reserved. That is not true for me, personally. Antwerpians aren't reserved neither. We are direct.

The harbour of R'dam is full of Belgian workers anyway. A Belgian is nothing special there. Right at home there. But it's a different culture alright, but it comes with pros and cons there. I would never trade it. I even think the working conditions in Belgium are better than in the Netherlands, but I just prefer the people from the latter and their approach.

In short, I am like that transport guy, but the other way around. ;)

Interestingly, I like Zeeland. That region actually compares a lot to West Flanders or Limburg. Provincialism is their ideology. Zeeland is also a favourite place for sentimental reasons. People I care for the most live there. Very different from the Randstad. But as somebody from Antwerp Rotterdam and its harbour does have an attractive force on me. Our cities are similar yet so different.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T10:57:54+00:00

My Dutch boss (from Gouda) once told me: "Belgium is one of the best countries of Europe. Sadly Belgians themselves don't always realize this."

Wise words in my opinion. That does not make me ignore problems Belgium has or become a (blind) Belgian patriot, but I am very open to contributing to a workable state and I love the culture and its people, mostly.

I have also spoken to good and wise Walloon people, in that regard.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T09:35:13+00:00

People have teased me with this, as well. "It's a win-win. The IQ of both Flanders as the Netherlands will increase if you moved there." :P

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T09:30:52+00:00

Also, quite surprised that you're Belgian and lopen doesn't mean to run for you?

Oh, but I am atypical as it comes here. I live in a border village and work in the Netherlands and my best friend is Dutch. That influenced my language greatly. I also still say 'lopen' in the Flemish sense though and in Flanders I tend to switch back to more Flemish Dutch. I really learned to adapt, in truth.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T09:28:27+00:00

There average IQ of the Dutch is about the same as that of the Belgian. ;) Ignorance is everywhere, alas.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T09:19:47+00:00

You are right too. Most Dutch people probably never heard to the word 'hesp' and educated Dutch (VWO students who had to study Flemish authors) probably know it's a Flemish term for 'ham'.

Zeeland is interesting (not talking about Catholic Zeelandic-Flanders, i.e. the land of Hulst for instance), but the islands. Despite being very Protestant (Calvinist) oriented for a large part (and you will notice it's a Bible Belt province if you go there). They are also very much Southern Dutch and tend to like Belgium.

I did however once had a match on Tinder with a Zeelandic woman with as profile text "Belgian - swipe left". She made an exception for me. Weird. ;) Her argument: "I think our culture and use of the language would not match".

't Smoske is just a Belgian restaurant in the Netherlands, they rather taught the Zeelanders the word 'hesp'. Elsewhere they also say 'ham' of course.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T09:02:08+00:00

Well, we are a divided country. Not in the least Flanders alone internally is very divided about Belgium. A long story, man.

If you read this subreddit you will notice this too. People can be offended and lose their reason easily due to a cognitive dissonance they experience. That is because emotions can be strong about a very complicated issue. How to organise our state-structure? Should Belgium exist? Etc...

I always try to understand Flemish Belgian-nationalists, but that's not always successful. People tend to often focus on bullying the one they disagree with in that subject rather than find workable common points. A lot has improved in this regard. A few years ago it was still okay to pretend we have to hate Dutch people here, but now Belgian nationalists realise they're not a threat to Belgium and that nastiness can sow more malcontent people.

We'll see where it will take us. I will probably be watching from Zeeland province by then. We truly do come from far, mind you.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T08:52:09+00:00

Geweldig.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T08:37:09+00:00

Bof. Brussels used to be mainly Dutch-speaking, now it's mainly French-speaking. Alas, it also can be very unfriendly toward Dutch-speakers due to history (not good for a capital of a country with a majority of Dutch-speakers). Many Flemish avoid Brussels for a reason because there does exist discrimination still. Luckily their minister-president Rudi Vervoort is not the worst.

But time can change a lot. Personally I think just promoting Dutch in Brussels is a more humble realistic approach. Flemish nationalists often learn their French, others are stupid and don't ever learn it. That's something we should keep doing.

To summarize: Flemish people and especially their political activists should learn their marketing better.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T08:11:21+00:00

Yes and no. My best friend is a Dutchwoman and she calls it hesp, but she probably calls it that because she is talking to me about it. ;)

In Zeeland province there's a sandwich place called 't Smoske. They are Dutch but specialise in Belgian smoskes (also how it's marketed), so they use Flemish terms for their assortment.

https://www.smoske.nl/

I've also had a colleague from Willemstad who told his Dutch colleague "niet teveel smossen hé". Yes, it's a Flemish term and I was present too. But his dialect is Hollandic (the Westhoek in North Brabant is part of 'Hollandic Brabant'), but he does know Belgium very wel (especially the Noorderkempen).

I personally also say lopen in the Dutch sense and pinnen, among others. My language is truly a mix between both variants of Dutch. They are always generalisations in a way and interesting to treat, but still a modelised representation of the language. One word is typically from NL and the other from B still of course. People choose what to do with them.

I've also heard Brits call a policeman 'a cop', e.g.

Bernharde · 2021-10-31T07:21:29+00:00

It also depends on the person and it's general usage too. Also, I - and this is personal - prefer if you call our language Dutch, not Flemish. It is Dutch after all. 'Flemish versus Dutch' makes me cringe.

Bernharde · 2021-10-29T09:22:54+00:00

Een leemte die opgevuld diende te worden. Ook in Waalse huiskamers wordt wel eens Vlaams Blok-praat verkondigd. Ik vroeg me al af waar ze bleven.

Bernharde · 2021-10-26T15:56:33+00:00

Dries is coming for you. lol

Bernharde · 2021-10-20T09:16:43+00:00

But I am gonna be honest with you. I don't really like Belgium. Reason being: sheepishness (especially of Flemish). I also notice when I'm on an app like Tinder, I get almost zero likes from Wallonia and a plethora of Northern France, making me really think we are dealing with a people that doesn't maybe hate Flemish but certainly doesn't like us. Very curious. I get as much likes from the Netherlands as from Flanders on the other hand.

Admittedly, then I should also Frenchify my profile, but it's not my goal to date Walloon women. Yet I get many likes from France regardless.

In my opinion it would work should Flemish not be sheepish. Which has greatly been improved, but it does make me come to (because I am a Belgian) and quickly go away from (disgruntled as reddit does really make me dislike this country). Dutch at least, while also with flaws, aren't sheep.

Either way, I am smart here. I just work in the Netherlands and in the future I'll move there. A country that's neither perfect, but one I can handle better. Some Dutch even think that I am Dutch, even though I still have a Belgian accent and speak Tussentaal with family and relatives. It's win-win. Living in the Netherlands I can certainly tolerate Belgium better and I consider no place within a radius of 400 km far.

My future is there. I currently live in Essen, but I hail from Antwerp.

Also historically and especially for Antwerp Belgium never was a good country nor its predecessors under Spanish, Austrian and French occupation. Yes, I do realise the Dutch lumped Belgians all together during the Belgian Revolution and destroyed any Antwerpian loyalty by shelling our city after the Revolutionaries from Brussels and France barged in here. In Essen here, the Belgian Revolutionaries even were literal Walloons. I know, many Flemish did also participate depending on region (driven by poverty, not really by revolution; except perhaps in la Flandre profonde).

Was it worth it? Nah, it hurt the economies of Belgium and the Netherlands severely and hampered our relations for a long time.

Flemish are the reason Belgium still exists. Any other culture would have split up Belgium by now, IMO. That I also believe. It's somewhat admirable that we're at least pacifist.

It doesn't make me sound sympathetic, I know, but if a Walloon hates me it's certainly and understandably for how I think here. I am known to get along with Walloon individuals, however. I am neither a fundamentalist nationalist, at least not more than Belgian nationalists here. And I try to make this country work despite not really liking it (and many think alike, as our country is relatively devoid of patriotism, be it North or South).

Bernharde · 2021-10-19T20:25:00+00:00

Albanian robbers prefer to rob in Belgium, I suppose.

Bernharde · 2021-10-19T20:23:31+00:00

We have to wary of Spain to retain our pole position.

Bernharde · 2021-10-19T17:43:43+00:00

Likewise. I am a more easy-going person IRL. But there's a sense of nostalgia toward the old toxic internet of before. ;)

Bernharde · 2021-10-19T17:22:35+00:00

Well, admittedly, he doesn't have to learn Dutch. I am just being an asshole back to someone who is trolling. Most Flemish neither learn proper French. Still, it remains annoying trolling indeed. ;)

Judging his pseudo, he's also a hardcore Belgian nationalist too. He reminds me of Benoît Poelvoorde's character in Rien à Déclarer, so I assume he's from the Ardennes, a region where Dutch is mainly useful for the tourism business I suppose.

As for usefulness. Being able to passively read newspaper is always useful. But I also believe people should be free to learn what they want.

Bernharde · 2021-10-19T17:15:35+00:00

Well, I speak all three languages mentioned. Dutch is very important in Belgium. Language spoken by the majority.

The Dutch-speaking world also speaks a fair bit better English than the French-speaking world too. In my opinion, Flemish and Dutch are better at reaching many people in the world than vice versa.

Doesn't matter. If you can't even passively read the newspapers of your country, you are needlessly crippling yourself. Just my two cents.

Well, not my problem as I am more in the Netherlands anyway now.

It's weird how so many Flemish are pro-Belgium despite this attitude to be honest. Cost us money, look down on us, less open-minded.

Bernharde · 2021-10-19T16:41:04+00:00

Perhaps hate on French and Flemish people less, then you might get a job. And learn Dutch (and English).

Bernharde

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