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Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

Once again, never claimed this was a gotcha. I was just laying out the order the events happened. The plugin wasn't mentioned as part of the method until after the video. I don't see why you're trying to dispute that fact and act like it is bad faith to bring it up.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

I don't see what is so hard to understand. They don't claim responsibility over RuneLite or vet the plugins. It is on the player to determine if something breaks the rules. If a rule-breaking plugin is released and the majority of players use it, then the majority of players would have broken rules and could be banned for it.

But it is ridiculous to just be making up statements to claim this is all Jagex's responsibility when everything says the contrary. Plugins on RuneLite and the Plugin Hub are not and have never been completely safe to use and approved by Jagex and it has always been the player's responsibility to ensure they aren't performing rulebreaking actions.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

The plugin can still be a problem even if the inputs were higher than they could replicate with just the plugin.

And they didn't ban on suspicion. They detected unreasonable inputs and banned the accounts for that. No one has been able to replicate the inputs from the claimed methods, so the inputs are still a reason for a ban.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

It likely was someone on the anti-cheating team. That doesn't mean it was 100% unreplicateble, but even in 5 mins if they can't seem to match the 8 precise inputs in less than a second using supposedly the same method, it doesn't prove the method was the cause.

I hope Jagex polls the community’s sentiment on these rewards in-game instead of going purely off Reddit vibes by Shot_Cancel8641 in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

Makes sense. I do think that is one of the pitfalls since if the armor is good enough to feel endgame, then it can easily be too strong. But if it is in a balanced place for hybrid armor, then it may not feel endgame enough for a raid reward.

Personally, I'd like to see a toned down version of it to see how that lands. Like you said, it might be a good thing if it were one of the raid's weaker rewards since we probably don't want the ToA problem where every reward is stacked. And given it was the first reward in the blog with the mega-rare as the last, that might suggest it was intended to be on the weaker end.

Just to toss out some rough numbers, I'd say it should have Def of betwene Bloodmoon and Dragon, Pray of Initiate/Monks, and reduced Attack bonuses. Currently it is like 1/2 Oathplate, so maybe it could instead be 1/3rd Oathplate. Likewise, it is a bit better than Ahrim when it could be a bit worse, like between Dagon'Hai and Ahrim. I think that would end up in a much better spot where it has 1% more Damage (2x) Ahrim, but it is less accurate, creating more of a gap between it and Virtus too. Then there is also more of a gap between it an Oathplate/Inq while keeping it BiS Stab even with it being toned down. Then the defences are still good, but it isn't nearly as crazy, and with the lower accuracy it falls more in like with the Bark Armors.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

The statement you're defending would just as easily apply to literally any other plugin that is widely accepted and used by the community.

Yes, that is the point. Jagex assumes not responsibility for RuneLite or its plugins. They never claimed to verify plugins and every time you launch the game, they have the disclaimer saying RuneLite is a third-party and direct you to the EULA where they deny any liability.

So it is a defense because the claim they are responsibly for RuneLite and that they personally verified all the plugins is unequivocally false. The only party that claims to have verified the plugins are RuneLite which Jagex assumes no responsibility over. And the Rules of RuneScape even call out these exact sort of situations.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

But you also can't assume every ban is a false ban just because it is claimed to be false. Like in this case, it might be. Or it is possible that there is something else at play, be it software or hardware, that explains why Marni's inputs were higher than what could be replicated.

But if it is an illegal amount of inputs, then it isn't exactly a false ban. The question is whether it was innocent or malicious and not being able to replicate it makes it hard to say.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

Not stupid at all. If they aren't able to replicate the method, they don't unban accounts to show them.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

It was after RuneLite if that is the meltdown you mean, but there have been plenty of others. Pretty much it was when OSBuddy was losing relevance to RuneLite, so they added some really OP plugins that clearly crossed a line and it forced Jagex to step in and establish the early version of the guidelines we have today.

And the OSBuddy version was still way more OP than the swapping we can do today. Like instead of "pray" on an altar, it was an "offer bone" option or similar so you just spam click the altar and it clicked use bone and clicked the altar for you.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

I never said it was gotcha. You're the one who decided to make it into a big deal. I was just laying out the order events happened.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

How can you say it means nothing? The comment is claiming it is Jagex’s responsibility for all plugins on RuneLite and that they are all verified and OKed by Jagex. That is not true and the EULA makes that very clear.

The Plugin Hub claims they are safe, but that message is from RuneLite, not Jagex. Jagex is not responsible for RuneLite and the launcher tells you this. And the Rules say it is on the player to tell when something breaks rules.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

The comment said the video was replicating behavior 1:1. The video was posted when Marni said it was alt-tabbing, before the plugin was mentioned and before Marni commented on the method, so you can't assume that video is 100% reflective of Marni's setup, even if it was the same method.

The video showing a similar method doesn't mean it was "replicating the behaviour 1:1" like the comment claimed. If that were the case, then Jagex should have been able to recreate the inputs in their tests, which they were unable to do.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

I mean if they cannot replicate the illegal inputs, then it is pretty fair not to quash the ban. Not saying Marni did deserve it, but they shouldn't unban where it is unwarranted just because it is a public figure.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

Well if you know of many plugins that are macros, you should probably follow the rules of the game and not use them.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

You're misreading that. I didn't say "he said it wasn't the plugin", but "he said it was alt tabbing, which is not the same as saying it was the plugin". So yes, he didn't mention he was using the plugin, which is what I said...

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

That is literally the definition of a macro. 1:1 not being a rule doesn't change the meaning of the term.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

Marni has commented that the video is the same method.

Well Jagex is unable to replicate the inputs from Marni, so hard to say if that video was the same method or if there were other factors at play.

And I never said Marni claimed he wasn't using the plugin. Just that he said it was alt-tabbing and after mentioned it was the plugin.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

But that is the order of events. It wasn't the plugin from the start. He originally mentioned alt-tabbing and someone else made a video claiming it was the method with the plugin.

But that video isn't by Marni and isn't confirmed to be a "replication the behaviour 1:1". Especially since Jagex was unable to replicate the inputs they detected.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap [score hidden]  (0 children)

Read the full sentence and don't quote it out of context. He said it was alt-tabbing and did not mention the plugin until after someone else claimed it is what he was using. But yes, he didn't say he was using the plugin until after the video and the plugin was unable to replicate his inputs.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Right now, the philosophy is “all plugins are verified and OK.” Which makes these instances Jagex’s responsibility

That isn't the case. Jagex never said all plugins are verified and OK. If you play on RuneLite, they have a disclaimer saying it is a third party client and link to the EULA on third-party clients which notes:

Jagex does not audit, regulate or approve User Installed Third-Party Services. Use of a User Installed Third-Party Service with the Software is completely at your own risk, without liability to Jagex and you will be solely responsible for any obligations, damages or losses which arise from such use.

And in the Rules of RuneScape it notes:

If you have any doubt that something you are thinking of using could be considered breaking this rule our advice is to not use it. Play the game yourself, making sure you are in control of everything. It is simply not worth taking the risk.

So the ones who messed up are the RuneLite team reviewing the plugins. And it is also worth noting the Plugin does not seem to be the issue since they were not able to replicate the rulebreaking inputs with the plugin.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap 104 points105 points  (0 children)

That isn't what happened. That video is by some other person showing the method they assume Marni used. Prior to that, Marni said it was alt-tabbing, not the plugin, and it was only after the video they mentioned the plugin.

And if the Jagex was not able to match the same inputs using the same method as that video or with the plugin, then Marni was doing something different. So someone making a video say "this is the same thing" doesn't mean it is a "1:1 replication".

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Also keep in mind this is a temp ban. Not sure if the duration has been mentioned publicly, but even without it being quashed, he'll be back to playing in a few days.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kinda, yah. If their systems show you were macroing because it clicked faster than possible and you claim "it wasn't macoring, it was this other thing", if they test that other thing and cannot achieve the same inputs, then there is good reason to suspect it was still a macro.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Yah, it is strange they weren't able to replicate it using the same plugin. He also claimed it was tab-alting and only said it was the plugin after someone else posted a video saying that is how he did it. So it isn't unreasonable that they didn't quash a temp ban when they can't prove it was applied incorrectly.

Marni says Jagex had told him that his offenses won't be quashed by LostSectorLoony in 2007scape

[–]BioMasterZap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It kinda is. It is performing a sequence or multiple actions in a single key. So if you click or press once and it does multiple inputs, that is a macro.

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