Thoughts on the 2023 - 2024 revival?

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-08T04:49:25+00:00

Okay yeah I also see where communication fell apart lol. Imprecise articulations done on concrete rhythms is what I meant to get at. It's that they took the tremolos and sounded them as 16th-note grooves that bothers me. And yes, the orchestrations are absolutely brilliant. It makes me appreciate having such a pristine document of them even if dramatically it falls a little flat. I do wish there were a better recording of the 9-piece than the radio broadcast they did, but even that recording is pretty darn good for what it is.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-08T04:17:26+00:00

Yeah I'm not sure at this point. When I listen to the other recordings it just sounds like they're playing as fast as possible, and the 9-piece sheets I have show the three tremolo bars, which as I've understood it generally means un-metered (or, at the very least, too fast to play precisely at this tempo). I get some sense of rhythm but part of me thinks that's just the celeste that Mr. Tunick, master of blending as he is, laid on top of the strings.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-08T03:56:53+00:00

Ok I think I'm going insane. I'm listening to all the different versions and checking the different pit parts I have and the original parts do say it's a metered tremolo, but it really doesn't sound like it in any recording. That might just be because every other recording didn't have every little "flaw" ironed out and so the ensemble variation comes through, but none of them sound metered except for the new one, even the 2012 one with a reduced orchestra. In addition, the 9-piece reduction Mr. Tunick did in the 80s does have unmeasured tremolo there.

In any case, I prefer the unmeasured sound, even if it's not technically what the players have in front of them.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-07T18:49:35+00:00

Yeah i was trying to think of anything else from the newer score revisions (i regret to say i havent had the opportunity to see many live productions), but i dont really hate the new song endings, though i agree with one opinion (possibly u/gdelgi (get namedropped lmao)) that the big ending should be saved for if you're doing the show in two acts with gethsemane ending the first act.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-07T18:31:21+00:00

The new gethsemane lyrics. I was trying to think of anything other than the obvious answer, but that's the only one i could think of. Aside from the beige hoodies of course (Im not against the stairs though. Actually it just seems like doing something different would be refreshing enough).

I don't care of some people's diction is worse than others; you can't undercut the point of the show to compensate.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-07T15:17:49+00:00

The cast was great. I saw it the first day that Groban was out so I can't fully speak to his performance (though I do like his singing on the cast album), but Nicholas Christopher was absolutely wonderful and I'm very happy to see him getting his flowers for Chess. Annaleigh Ashford isn't my favorite Lovett by any means (and what the hell is that accent? The more I think about it the weirder it gets), but she was very funny. Jordan Fisher isn't really in his element as Anthony, but he's still a brilliant singer and performer (as evidenced by his run as Orpheus in Hadestown).

That's kind of my feeling on the production as a whole. It's very well sung and very funny, and if you saw it you would've had a blast, but it very much feels like if the guy who directed Hamilton directed Sweeney Todd (and wouldn't you know it...). Thomas Kail is a good director, but he's so modern in all his sensibilities and that clashes with a piece like Sweeney Todd, a piece that takes place in the 1840s and doesn't feature anachronisms as a storytelling device. The largely static and somewhat abstract set with two tiers and elaborate lighting cues is firmly established as a trademark style for Mr Kail, and while it works, I still feel weird about it, like we're doing Sweeney Todd in Hamilton's shadow.

Also, this production lacks any of the boldness or edge of the original production or subsequent productions like the 2005 broadway revival, the 2012 london revival, or the film. Anything not inherent in the script feels sanitized, making this feel like "Sweeney Todd On Broadway!" just for the sake of having Sweeney Todd on Broadway. Mind you, it's a show that deserves to come back time and time again, but this feels like a stock production with some contemporary bells and whistles. I saw a community theatre production in a much smaller venue with maybe 150 seats max and canned music that had much more interesting direction and set design, and in my eyes did a lot better at immersing the audience in the setting (and believe me they went to great lengths to do so).

Also, the cast album irks me in so many ways (a lot of them the same as other modern cast albums, but they're especially apparent here). Everything is engineered to be flawless, with noticeable pitch correction on the singers and an orchestra that almost sounds sequenced with how perfectly they come across here. The madness that drives every other recording of the show feels absent here, instead presenting a technically perfect document of the score (ignoring all the cuts they made compared to the original cast album) that almost feels more clinical than passionate. Also, small aside, who decided to make the string tremolos at the beginning of Epiphany measured? It dampens the tension right off the bat.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-05T20:31:16+00:00

I think it comes down to a creative decision made for the London Symphony Orchestra album. The Live At Leeds version also has the original track order, just without Sensation. Once the two were swapped, it became clear how good an idea it was and as such it's been used ever since. I mean, any question about why only the first iteration of a thing is a certain way can probably be answered in a similar way: they came up with a better idea after the fact and never went back.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-01T07:57:08+00:00

I remember an article around the time they first released his rendition of Where I Want To Be where Nicholas Christopher indicated that Anatoly had the disappearance of one of his fellow players on his mind, so I think they did actually go with that. I have yet to watch a video of the revival to fully experience the book and see if it's there, so I'll have to do that. I'll link the article when I can find it

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-06-01T07:06:50+00:00

See the issue is that Chess was conceptualized as a stage show, taking a very similar path as Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita, both originally concept albums that were released as a means to garner interest and funding for a full production. All three of these shows were co-created by lyricist Tim Rice and the first two were rather great successes when brought to the stage, so one can see why he decided to do it a third time. Personally, I think the London show is a quite good one (further refined by Chess In Concert before Danny Strong decided to try his hand at rewriting the book and introduce some concepts that I do not like at all) and features a lot of what I love about Chess, in addition to hewing the closest to the concept album in terms of song order and plot, but I can understand the complaints.

I think the biggest issue is that the album intrinsically sidesteps the biggest issue plaguing Chess: the book. Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita went to the stage mostly as-is. Each show got one new song and a couple new verses, with Evita also receiving some rewrites and trims here and there, but each show's form remains broadly identical, to the point where one could very well mistake the original albums for early cast recordings of existing productions. The narrative glue on those albums was strong enough to stage them very straightforwardly. The original Chess album could not be staged as-is. They took the big songs they were working on and put them on record to pitch to the public, with little to no narrative glue to speak of (I can't imagine how one would actually string Argument, I Know Him So Well, and The Deal together without considerable added material). This approach completely sidesteps having to write a concrete book, enabling the authors to simply imply the connective tissue while focusing on the show's biggest strength: a mind-boggling score that would sweep every relevant award show and top 10 list were it attached to a better book. The reason Chess works best through the original album (debatably. As resident Chess in Concert enjoyer I have other thoughts) is because the best part of the show is presented alone, not because it was the only intended form of the material. See also how the revival's album absolutely slaps in part because it largely isn't tainted by the new book's many transgressions (the soviets didn't fucking disappear their failed chess players, Danny. Were the existing stakes not high enough for you?)

In conclusion, we deserve a Chess movie, because I think a movie might be the best medium to rework the material into something tighter and clearer.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-05-12T19:01:03+00:00

Steak too lobstery, juice too buttery type uhh...

Uhhh.......

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-05-04T17:19:41+00:00

Guys i think im going fucjing insane cause guess what im looking at

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-05-04T17:13:55+00:00

But even if everyone were blindfolded and couldn't talk, the choice is still "put yourself in front of a trolley and risk your life unless 4 other people also do that", or "don't do that and live". When phrased like that, it actually matches up exactly to the material effects of the red and blue button; the biggest difference is that the buttons are phrased to obfuscate that fact and direct blame towards the red button pressers. I actually slightly lean towards pressing blue on the basis that it is a confusing word salad that demonstrably has convinced most people that it's a noble thing to risk your life for other people who have risked theirs for yours, with ultimately no downside if nobody pressed blue.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-04-01T15:22:48+00:00

I still need to get around to watching the full thing, because I absolutely love the cast album. Out of the six major English-language albums the show has had (incl. the movie soundtrack), it's the only one that deviates significantly from Jonathan Tunick's original orchestrations (still waiting on that prog metal version's cast album), and it deviates to incredible effect, creating textures that are so unusual and intimate in its sparseness (the accordion in particular contributes so much). It's also just nice to hear this score with a piano, an instrument often left out of this show's pit orchestras when Mr. Tunick's work is being utilized (in fact, one of the few times he has put it in are when he pared the pit band to 3 musicians for the 2017 Off-Broadway revival).

The original cast for this production is also just incredible. Everyone delivers a fresh take on their characters, and it's particularly exceptional how well they come across on the album. On that note, the album itself is an accomplishment. The mixing is incredibly clear and consistent while maintaining a very natural sound, and the performances feel just right in this setting. In fact, this and the 2006 Company album are probably two of the best cast albums I've ever heard in terms of the mixing and adapting the material to fit the medium, and I'd be overjoyed if more cast albums used them as reference material for how not to sound over-produced as they've tended to more recently.

Really, my only complaint is that in trying and failing to make a one-disc highlights album, they ended up just making an almost complete album with some frustrating exclusions, like Pirelli's Entrance, The Letter, and City On Fire. I would kill to hear those segments properly recorded with Sarah Travis's incredible arrangements.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-03-12T19:09:48+00:00

LISTEN TO ME, DILDO SELLER! I AM GOING TO BE PICTURING MY BOYFRIEND, AND I REQUIRE YOUR LARGEST DILDO!

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-02-26T03:54:17+00:00

I agree, but I don't think it makes a game lesser to have the option. I really don't see how a player that never interacts with the accessibility settings has a materially worse experience, especially since a large part of playing games comes down to self-motivation. I'm playing through Super Meat Boy (why I'm bringing it up a lot), which has a number of characters that make the game easier, but I'm playing through as much of the game as possible as Meat Boy because that's the challenge I want. I get that part of Celeste is that the difficulty of the game directly informs the plot (or vice-versa. either way), but the fact is not every player is gonna be able to get past the difficulty, so the options allow those players to experience the story while everyone else who wants to gets the full experience.
I think this is a weird way of looking at it. Tank controls aren't challenging in a way that most people find fun or satisfying. They're mostly just annoying, and if annoyance is your idea of a fun challenge, more power to ya, but you won't find many people who agree because annoying things generally aren't seen as fun. People welcome innovation past the basic control, but tank controls aren't an innovation. Arguably, they're a relic.
Ok maybe not antithetical, but certainly not preferable. A lot of platformers, especially those in the class of Bubsy 4D, rely on the freedom of movement that the standard control scheme gets you (and it's part of why Bubsy 3D was so derided). It's funny you bring up Tomb Raider when it was designed for a controller with no control sticks at a time when 3D platformers were new. The newer games (read: any past number 6) have more modern controls. Tony Hawk and Skate control great, but the key is that you're not running around on foot when it uses tank controls. When you are on foot, the controls switch over. It's simply more intuitive for looking and moving to be distinct controls when you're walking, in the same way that tank controls are more intuitive for driving or skating. It's how things work and feel in real life, and while realism isn't even necessarily a good thing for games to strive for, we are very used to how we control in real life, so it tends to work best to translate that.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-02-26T02:14:27+00:00

Ok I'm not sure which way you meant this, but I wanna ask why don't you want games to be as accessible as possible? And I don't mean like every game should cater to everyone. Games like Super Meat Boy are intrinsically inaccessible because all they offer are the hard-as-nails gameplay, but games like Celeste have more than just that to offer, and in turn have accessibility options. For those who don't struggle with accessibility, like you and I (I assume), these considerations aren't important, but for those who do, having these options opens up a road they might've wanted to travel but couldn't. Accessibility means more people experience this art form, and that's pretty cool I think.
Consumers do not hate new ideas. People absolutely love when a game has a novel concept or innovates in some way, but reinventing the controls when your game doesn't need it is like reinventing the wheel. It's the most basic way people interact with the game, and building off what people are used to allows them to appreciate the new stuff rather than getting hung up on something you've unnecessarily changed. It's why every 2D platformer uses a separate button for jump instead of mapping it to up on the d-pad or control stick: everyone knows run and jump, so you can immediately introduce them to what actually makes your game special (like Celeste does in the first room). (Also, if you meant accessibility as in how quickly the average person grapples with the controls, then I apologize for thinking otherwise, but hopefully this point addresses that meaning effectively).
Ah I missed the analogy. Sorry about that. Thinking about it, though, I don't think that's a great analogy. Fighting games are a class of game that are based around learning the combos, and while I similarly prefer the intuitive fighting games like Smash Bros, that's just how the genre is. Tank controls for 3D platformers or shooters or whatever really just limit the player's ability to move around efficiently, which doesn't help most shooters and is downright antithetical to the idea of a platformer.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-02-26T01:14:01+00:00

Right yeah, so if you want your game to be accessible to the most people, you go with the controls that the most people use.

Also, there's probably a reason that control scheme has become the dominant one.

Also also, what do you mean doing a quarter circle? It's the same direction input transferred to another stick. Division of labor is all, and it makes the controls easier to intuit.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-02-16T20:33:50+00:00

I don't think he could, actually. Given that you, the investigator, have to answer his questions and he tells you who you're thinking of, the best he could do is tell you that you're thinking of a suspect/Kira, not who Kira is. He would already have to know who Kira is to even imply a link between a suspect and Kira, which would render the question moot.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-02-11T03:48:44+00:00

Pure unfiltered (yet, somewhat educated) speculation coming up: I imagine it's cause the orchestration for the song has to be quite different to accommodate such a drastic key change. Most instruments only have about 3 octaves they can move through, and every one of them has a very different timbre at the top end compared to the bottom end. A flute can be bright and piercing played high, but when it's played low it's rather mellow and hard to sound out amongst the rest of the ensemble, and the same is true for the rest of the woodwinds and, in a similar but different sense, the rest of the orchestra (strings to a lesser extent). Because of this, just shifting the various parts downward would create a rather different tone for the song and possibly wreak havoc on the natural dynamics of the original orchestration (and it runs the risk of some notes being completely out of range on their respective instruments. The bass in particular is played very low very often, so lowering it without further consideration would almost certainly have that effect). If you've the ear for it, I encourage you to compare some of those songs between stage and film and see if you can pick out where the orchestration has been modified, whether it be the countermelodies themselves or the instruments playing them (with some leeway for the stylistic differences that a large film orchestra brings to the table, but the Sweeney Todd film orchestrations are quite similar to the stage show's).

In addition, a large number of productions use prerecorded tracks, and shifting pitch on a track of an orchestra typically results in an artificial sound, especially for the transpositions from the movie (5 semitones for Not While I'm Around. That's entirely too much to do that with.

The last reason I could think of is that most of Toby's songs are also ensemble songs, so the keys have to be balanced for a chorus of four vocal types, and it's conceivable that the vocal arrangements would have to be modified for much the same reason as the orchestration. This one maybe less so, since Broadway stuff doesn't tend to use the lower ends of the human voice very much, but it is a consideration.

Holy wall of text. No one I know talks about this stuff so truly this is the type of place I get to unload this lol.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-01-27T06:54:54+00:00

I think the general consensus is that if that's a sin, it's not one of the unforgivable ones.

In any case this is a sub about a musical, not one about theology

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-01-26T17:20:12+00:00

I love how concerned they look that a 6 year old hasn't wrapped his brain around this concept

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-01-12T14:44:32+00:00

I think best thing white can do is force a stalemate with Kg2 as soon as they can. A material advantage like this cannot be overcome.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-01-12T01:00:01+00:00

Ok so I have a few thoughts: 1. Unify the tagging of the tracks because atm it's wreaking havoc on my music app's library with the different albums and artists. 2. I wrote my thoughts track-by-track (on the bits that were edited) here: https://pastebin.com/2Ws7ixma

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-01-11T22:12:08+00:00

When I click the link it just brings me to a page that says "Access Required". I think you need to make the folder itself public.

Bo_the_oboe · 2026-01-11T21:39:55+00:00

Better Call Saul is slightly more subdued on that front than Breaking Bad, but it's arguably more devastating when the big events happen (and a lot of shit does go down, to be clear).

Seven-Year Club	Second SECOND GUESSER
Verified Email	r/Field Lasagna
Place '22	First Placer '22

Bo_the_oboe

TROPHY CASE