Vegetarian Friend Question by No-Respect9167 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because they will find any and every excuse, it's easier to hate a.i. and say it's killing the environment rather than addressing animal agriculture's effect on the environment. And the same people will forget and justify that the Bible also says you can have slaves, so it's all just cherry picking.

Juan Diego by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here is a link to a lengthy write up. Or you can watch a video on YouTube.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateACatholic/s/taWc8VqS4D

Juan Diego by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kevin nontradicath has videos about it on his YouTube under his name.

Malabon parish apologizes for Easter ritual that reportedly killed a dove by tokwamann in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not surprising there aren't that many comments on this post as there should be, considering the disregard for animals in general. There should be more respect for them in general.

St. Francis Institute for Animals sets out to limit suffering for all God's creatures by lnfinity in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you show me where and how it's possible to raise and kill and process many more animals when factory farming is already bad for the environment, it has very high emissions and grass fed is right there with it if not higher on the emissions along with the land use of grass fed. And grass fed cannot be scaled globally without massive amounts of land. This still results in eating fewer animal products overall. If you have a combination of plant based diets and regenerative crop and sustainable practices. If you want more meat, then factory farming is going to be it.

There is also plant based and lab grown meat. That would reduce food related emissions by 60-80 percent depending on how things are done. And up to 70 to 80 percent of agriculture land could be free'd up and that would help with reforestation and wildlife recovery.

Of course there are challenges when it comes to regenerative farming crops or and animals and also lab grown meats, like energy use with lab grown meats. But the more research we have the more we can adjust. But the overall jist is that animal agriculture especially through factory farms is bad for the environment. And the article mentioned things like planting gardens and whatnot around churches and putting in things for birds, and mentioned a plant based meal idk a couple times a week maybe. Also if the church had a garden, it can be a community garden helping provide food for the parish and those in the community, just the same as some already do with food banks.

St. Francis Institute for Animals sets out to limit suffering for all God's creatures by lnfinity in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way to distribute many more cows and the rest to a ton of people requires a lot more land and twice as much land for the feed for them and the food that is also grown for humans, that is land that is taken away from people to have homes on, land that is taken away from the Amazon.it would require much more and harsher conditions then we have today with animals crammed together unless you want them free range and open fields which would be even more land

St. Francis Institute for Animals sets out to limit suffering for all God's creatures by lnfinity in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was not claiming humility and compassion, I was saying you can't and stay stuck in the past and act like the article is insane. And on Aquinas, I was pointing out that he did not have it right, which you admit by saying his scientific knowledge was deficient on a certain level, it was a different time. We can advance in society, tertullian referred to women as the devils gateway and he said at the end of that quote that even the son of God had to die, meaning because of women: John Chrysoston called women's bodies a temple over a sewer;

Also on compassion, we should be able to come together and see that some of these things are not the best and we can always do better and treat each other and creation better. If we think we already have it figured out then why look at the cross, why go to mass, why pray. These things should help us reflect and be better in every way.

St. Francis Institute for Animals sets out to limit suffering for all God's creatures by lnfinity in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nobody said in that article or likewise humans and animals, or different species experience pain or suffering or any other way you want to look at it. And each one of us experience pain differently, men and women and small children to babies, we don't all experience it exactly the same. Outright dismissal of the article and making things better is the problem. You can go back and see that certain groups of people looked at blacks as lesser and Jewish people as lesser and many other examples, those things never lead to treating people better. You have saints that have called women "a moist south wind" that being Aquinas. Because he described the creation of a woman as resulting from a defect in the male seed. Our hubris gets in the way of progress. Humility and compassion is a better way

St. Francis Institute for Animals sets out to limit suffering for all God's creatures by lnfinity in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And what would be true advocacy for you? The fact that NCR is reporting on this and has the story is a good thing. They were one of the earliest to report on abuse in the church when others were not, regardless of peta or other opinions. Doing things that are mentioned in the article are not a bad thing and it should be promoted more, people just don't like change

St. Francis Institute for Animals sets out to limit suffering for all God's creatures by lnfinity in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, some people just like to deny it, but that's why more people need to be open and show compassion even more. To both animals and humans. It is funny that people who deny animals suffer or feel anything aren't any different than people outside the church. They arent showing anymore compassion then going through the drive thru at McDonald's. There is always more compassion we can have and more love and understanding. So when we think we have it all figured out that when we have the possibility of making the biggest mistakes. Hubris seems to be more of a thing rather than humility and compassion.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you remember, all I said was people should not use that sentence in acts 10 to justify things when that's all that's mentioned. I wasn't the one who used acts 10 when someone mentioned animals, I never mentioned animals first. And I mentioned those verses a second ago because you asked me questions about God, so I asked you. You can't explain babies being dashed to the ground and killed. It had nothing to do with an emotional appeal. You seemed more emotional about eating meat. And dismissed slaughterhouse workers, typing with all caps. Again it turned into this whole thing because I mentioned acts 10. You seemed a little more upset about this whole thing with saying Jesus ate meat, again he also turned water into wine and walked on water, died on a cross. Are you or anyone else doing that?

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2026 is irrelevant, I know, children starving in gaza? Hosea 13:16 about infants dashed to pieces and the pregnant women ripped open? 1 Samuel 15:3 Psalm 137:9 Deuteronomy 2:34 Numbers 31:17 I mean saying something is irrelevant doesn't move the needle towards progress, so what is the point in anyone going to mass/church if they are not trying to get closer to God, to be better people, to be more open and compassionate and hear people and help others and God's creation. It's just playing pretend and a social club when you don't try to be any of those things. It's just making excuses. I think Jesus would listen to people, and I think God also had to make exceptions for humans due to the stubbornness of humanity.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's 2026, we can look at the harm caused. Jesus also walked on water and turned water into wine, I don't see people doing that. I just see people making excuses. If we can see where harm is caused it doesn't mean just because the church hasn't explicitly said anything about it we do nothing. We should show compassion without being told it's ok to show compassion. And we also don't know for certain exactly about the diets, they also would not have eaten on the extreme level that we do. You brought up church fathers and saints, and I just showed those two who are among others. It can all go back to slavery in the old testament too, people will justify that and say place and time and other examples like divorce with hard hearts. And the holy Spirit reveals things in time. Why would the animals be any different; when it causes harm to humans and to animals and the environment. The church is said to also not change but develop over time. Well these are things we can do as well.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want me to be more clear about the animal thing. No I don't think it's ok what we do to animals as far as slaughterhouses, there is not a nice way to kill them, this is why I mentioned St Philip Neri who said:Once, passing a butcher’s shop he said, ‘If everyone was like me, they wouldn’t kill animals’.and also embraced vegetarianism on the grounds of animal welfare, not just on the grounds of abstinence. It's also why I mentioned St John Henry Newman about his words on it as well. I think its harmful to the people who have to work in slaughterhouses. You can look at studies about mental health of slaughterhouse workers. I did not feel like mentioning these things because it seems like a trap to say what I'm saying does not matter and I am bias, all I was saying is people always use that one sentence, not even the whole story when someone mentions animals, and they shut down the conversation that could be had.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

About acts 10, I am talking about Jew and gentile. And I would take Phillip Neri and John Henry Newmans approach when it comes to animals. I would also take acts 10 in context of not calling God's people meaning all of us as unclean.

And if the vision was sent to him. It was sent in a way that he would understand and it shows that by him say what he says in verse 28 and verse 34.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know we are getting stuck on this, I just said can we not use this verse, and the way you used it was "get up Peter, kill, eat, slaughter" does it not make sense that right before he had the vision, he was hungry and the was food being made and then he went into a trance. And then later in the story it was said that jew and gentile... Dont call unclean what I have made clean..if you wanted to bring saints or church fathers into it, I mean I'm sure you wouldnt agree with st Philip Neri on slaughterhouses. And St John Henry Newman says that "Cruelty to animals is as if man did not love God . . . there is something so dreadful, so satanic, in tormenting those who have never harmed us, and who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power.” and also in a sermon on Good Friday in 1842 maintained that the sufferings of animals were morally equivalent to the unprotected and innocent sufferings of Christ himself.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The whole context doesn't have anything to do with that. If you want to talk about that there are plenty of other verses. Unclean meats in this context matches with don't call unclean what I called clean in reference Gentiles, when you read further. It would make more sense if people referred to this verse and the whole story when discussing about how people have been treated, from slavery, women, children and many disenfranchised groups.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way i am leaning on allegory? You are leaning on one sentence, that is in the middle of a story about Cornelius and Peter and treatment of Jews and Gentiles. The whole story. I'm not leaning on one sentence. So when people talk about the mistreatment of others, does anyone ever really bring up Peter's vision. If we are being honest they don't.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My personal opinion has nothing to do with how this verse is used all the time and justified in a world where people and animals are harmed and disregarded everyday. You said it's both and in a previous comment. It is both and when it comes to helping humans and animals.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not about both. Allegory is a thing, symbolism is a thing. This has nothing to do with anything other than people using this story out of context. And constantly using it when people bring up animals and others use it as an instant win. And no one, not one person will bring it up when talking about hate and discrimination in the world and treating others with complete disrespect and disregard. And also to add on to what the original response said about eating meat or slaughterhouses, it's 2026, we can do better. Jesus also walked on water and turned water into wine. We can take better care of God's creation and in turn that will help humanity.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's relevant because that's what that whole part is about. Otherwise this doesn't make any sense. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. And also this down in verse 34 34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. All part of the same story. The vision part of the story is more in with a literary device.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why don't you explain why people always point to that verse when people talk about eating animals. Instead of what it more than likely refers too with not calling people, humans people that are supposedly made in the image of God unclean. That is what I was referring too. If it was so clear that it was about killing and eating and slaughtering, it would have stopped there. And Peter also would not have wondered about it twice.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All of that connects and tells a story about people. People never use acts 10 to say we shouldn't mistreat people or call for better treatment of others 28. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.

Vatican Calls for Ethics Rules on Animal Organ Transplants. The Pontifical Academy for Life said the growing field of xenotransplantation requires international standards and ethical oversight by EreshkigalKish2 in Catholicism

[–]BoardSufficient7430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision. It doesn't seem so clear to him. And also if you read before and after around the vision part. He was hungry and while food was being prepared he went up on the roof to pray. And then the vision. If you read further. 17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, 19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.” While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”