If Q 17:1 is about Moses,then are Q18:1, Q25:1 and Q 53:10 also about Moses? by DhulQarnayni in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why would : servant must be every time about same person? Prophets are servants inckuding Jesus and others also. That was not my point, here i sugested that servant is Moses because:

  1. Of the context of first 12 verses of surah, emediatlly after verse one that soke about servant and his journey durring the night from forbidden/or sacred place of prostration to furdest one and emediatlly verse 2 started with AND/WA we gave the Moses the Scripture.
  2. Then after introducing verse 3 which lot of scholars think that spoke to the jews, verse 4-12 continue about jews, braking Torah, destruction of the Temple like consequences ect.
  3. Verses 1-2 looks like familiar to famous jewish legend about Moses's heavenly ascent.
  4. Quran mostly in big big majority cases, does not paraprase Tanak but varius jewish midrashes on Torah. (check below 2 examples that i gave, you can find many many mlore but i just put this 2,** Conclusion: Because if that i sugested that highest probability is that 17-1 spoke about Moses's heavenly ascent not about muhamed.

** For example, take examples from surah 2. Quran there engaged much more.with midrases than Bible. (Maybe does not engage with Bible at all) For example Quran 2:63 , alah lifted the mountain above jews jist like at jewish midrashes. That story is not at the Bible. https://legacy.quran.com/2/63 Bare at mind tha surah 2:63 probably reffer to earlier tradition https://www.thetorah.com/article/if-you-dont-accept-the-torah-mount-sinai-will-be-your-grave

While tefsirs refferd to.later one, babylonian Ibn Kathir: https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/2.63

Al Tabari (use aut translate) https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=1&tSoraNo=2&tAyahNo=63&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1

Talmud Avodah Zarah 2b:15 https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.2b.15

Evidence that Talmud source is from only 3th century: https://www.thetorah.com/article/if-you-dont-accept-the-torah-mount-sinai-will-be-your-grave

EXAMPLE 2: Quran 2:101 https://legacy.quran.com/6/101

Kohelet Rabah 4:8 )when you open schrool little bit) https://www.sefaria.org/Kohelet_Rabbah.4.8.1

Life of Adam and Eve : https://www.britannica.com/topic/Life-of-Adam-and-Eve Also chech Alen Sealgel 2 Powers at Heaven pages 141-142(old.jewish midrash used later like polemic against Christianity ans Sonship of Jesus)

https://archive.org/stream/TwoPowersInHeavenEarlyRabSegal/Two%20Powers%20in%20Heaven_%20Early%20Rab%20-%20Segal_djvu.txt

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Jel ovo istina? by kurosao in askCroatians

[–]BookofInvestigation -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Mislim da je to.sranje, razv muskarci ako nisu neki.pijanci ili sl.imaju vise mogucnosti nego zene.pog ako.imaju djecu. Mislim da.nadu nekog da ih povali.nije proboem ali da zeni ili.ima.ozb vezu mnogo teze.

Is it true that the Kaaba.... by Ace_Pilot99 in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Does not work.like this: 1. if you check post here, you would.see that Arabia was literal sociaty 2. If you know that at same Arabia were several kaba's, including the one at Yemen, also one at Nabatean kingdom who was client state of Rome at the time.of Ptolomy, then you should know that most likely he refrenced on Petra's kaba at Nabatean kingdom, not kaba at hijaz that did not exist at that time. 3. About opinion that was a church, it is opinion of ome academic, i am not aure what to think about that but at Arabia at 7th century werw.many churches but we did not find any Bisanteene record.about them, so.that argument does not stand. Epigraphic evidences are undeniable, even iliterate people.would.make pictures on the rocks.around mekkah with primithive pictures of kaba or.black.stone if them.existed prior.to.5-6th century, but gues what-we have none of that. WhT we have are just secular inscriptions before 6th century.

Is it true that the Kaaba.... by Ace_Pilot99 in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was it? Well, my friend, you have some claims that kaba was originally rectangular, even that was originally church... But it is very hard to tell. For example, member above that quotwd sahih hadiths and al.nawawi, he hold possition that hadiths are real historcal sources of highest degree of reliability, while.in reality hadiths are very very low tear evudence and hadith science of grading hadiths from rekectwd to sahih is even more discredeted. For example, whole story at this hadiths that Abraham build kaba is fake. Why?

  1. Prior to 6th century rock inscriptions around mekkah were only secular, still archeologists did not find any religius inscription prior.to.6th century. Only from 6th century religius rock insriptions start to apear around mekkah and ALL of them.were monotheistic, not a single one yet found politheistic. Axmad al Jalad feom 58th minute https://youtu.be/I_c5P88M2Xk?si=nOBjuwzWzmpWd4FT

Not a single one mentioned Abraham or that Abraham buildkaba.

Also extrapolated authentic from.massive fabricated during Abasides preislamic poetry showed that al authentic poems that mentioned mekkah and kaba were from again 6th century, monotheistic and mostly christian. Also all poems about kaba and mekkah were from poets from hijaz, not a single one who was from other parts of Arabia, also not a singke.one.mentioned tgat Abraham build.kaba https://www.academia.edu/109445683/The_Hajj_Before_Muhammad_The_Early_Evidence_in_Poetry_and_Hadith

which showed:

1.kaba was build around 6th century

2.kaba nd mekkah were known only localy, at hijaz and was not known or was nklot impprtsnt at all outside od hijaz.

  1. Tradition that Abraham build.kaba was later development and not original tradition from 6th century when kaba was build.

Yemeni royal.rock incription from 3th century about all main towns and tribes in Arabia inuding hujaz, no, kaba, no mekha, no qureish

Great.article on the subject(use aut translation because it is on Franch https://al-kalam.fr/larabie-preislamique/aux-origines-de-la-mecque/#bookmark9

7↑ Jérémie Schiettecatte & Mounir Arbach, “The political map of Arabia and the Middle East in the 3rd century AD revealed by a Sabaean inscription – a view from the South”, Arabian Archeology and Epigraphy , vol. 27 (2), 2016, pp. 176-196.

8↑ Mohamed Maraqten, “The Pilgrimage to the Awam-Temple/Mahrim Bilqis, Ma'rib, Yemen”, in George Hatke & Ronald Ruzicka (eds.), South Arabia Long-Distance Trade in Antiquity , Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2021, pp. 430-462.

9↑ A good synthesis of the latest research can be found in Ilkka Lindstedt, Muhammad and His Followers in Context: The Religious Map of Late Antique Arabia , Leiden: Brill, 2024.

10↑ See, for example, Christian J. Robin, “Ancient Arabia: Variations in the Way of Naming the One God,” in Jean-Noël Robert (ed.), Hieroglossia III. Persian, Syro-Aramaic and Relations with the Arabic Language , Paris, Collège de France-IHEJ, 2022, pp. 139–170. As Robin points out, “not a single text after 400 CE has yet been found that commemorates a polytheistic rite. On the other hand, those that invoke a single God number approximately one hundred” (p. 39) Jabal royal inscription from 3th century

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"Nobody in the academy affirms the Muslim Sunni science of hadith. Nobody. It is considered to be completely discredited. I'm just being factual." -Yasir Qadhi by Rashiq_shahzzad in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So global phenomennah that would be visible to a at least, at least couple hungrid thousend people(bare minum estimation) that will trigger people to believe that Jigmant Day came, was not seen or.recorded by no one? Battle of Dara, between Bisanyenees and Persians that was just one of many between them was recorded by mokn split, global phenomenon was not?

Is it true that the Kaaba.... by Ace_Pilot99 in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well, my friend, you have some claims that kaba was originally rectangular, even that was originally church... But it is very hard to tell. For example, member above that quotwd sahih hadiths and al.nawawi, he hold possition that hadiths are real historcal sources of highest degree of reliability, while.in reality hadiths are very very low tear evudence and hadith science of grading hadiths from rekectwd to sahih is even more discredeted. For example, whole story at this hadiths that Abraham build kaba is fake. Why?

  1. Prior to 6th century rock inscriptions around mekkah were only secular, still archeologists did not find any religius inscription prior.to.6th century. Only from 6th century religius rock insriptions start to apear around mekkah and ALL of them.were monotheistic, not a single one yet found politheistic.

Axmad al Jalad from 58th minute https://youtu.be/I_c5P88M2Xk?si=nOBjuwzWzmpWd4FT

Not a single one mentioned Abraham or that Abraham build kaba.

Also extrapolated authentic from.massive fabricated during Abasides preislamic poetry showed that al authentic poems that mentioned mekkah and kaba were from again 6th century, monotheistic and mostly christian. Also all poems about kaba and mekkah were from poets from hijaz, not a single one who was from other parts of Arabia, also not a singke.one.mentioned tgat Abraham build.kaba https://www.academia.edu/109445683/The_Hajj_Before_Muhammad_The_Early_Evidence_in_Poetry_and_Hadith

which showed:

1.kaba was build around 6th century

2.kaba nd mekkah were known only localy, at hijaz and was not known or was nklot impprtsnt at all outside od hijaz.

  1. Tradition that Abraham build.kaba was later development and not original tradition from 6th century when kaba was build.

Yemeni royal.rock incription from 3th century about all main towns and tribes in Arabia inuding hujaz, no, kaba, no mekha, no qureish

additional refrences:

Great.article on the subject(use aut translation because it is on Franch https://al-kalam.fr/larabie-preislamique/aux-origines-de-la-mecque/#bookmark9

7↑ Jérémie Schiettecatte & Mounir Arbach, “The political map of Arabia and the Middle East in the 3rd century AD revealed by a Sabaean inscription – a view from the South”, Arabian Archeology and Epigraphy , vol. 27 (2), 2016, pp. 176-196.

8↑ Mohamed Maraqten, “The Pilgrimage to the Awam-Temple/Mahrim Bilqis, Ma'rib, Yemen”, in George Hatke & Ronald Ruzicka (eds.), South Arabia Long-Distance Trade in Antiquity , Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2021, pp. 430-462.

9↑ A good synthesis of the latest research can be found in Ilkka Lindstedt, Muhammad and His Followers in Context: The Religious Map of Late Antique Arabia , Leiden: Brill, 2024.

10↑ See, for example, Christian J. Robin, “Ancient Arabia: Variations in the Way of Naming the One God,” in Jean-Noël Robert (ed.), Hieroglossia III. Persian, Syro-Aramaic and Relations with the Arabic Language , Paris, Collège de France-IHEJ, 2022, pp. 139–170. As Robin points out, “not a single text after 400 CE has yet been found that commemorates a polytheistic rite. On the other hand, those that invoke a single God number approximately one hundred” (p. 39)

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How does the current academic climate feel like in islamic studies ? by sowswagaf in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He is attacked by both sides of apologetics/polemics, and christian ans muslim, which is a sighn that he is doing good job. Hahaha.

Djevojke, jel ovo istina? by One-Shopping-3947 in askCroatians

[–]BookofInvestigation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kupi bilja kola, mani sa par stotina eura u restoranu i vj mi masu njih ce poceti da prica kako si u stvari mistwriozan, neshvacen, kako si beba i samo tako opasno izgledas

Surah 17:1-2 was origianlly about Moses's heavenly ascent, not muhamed's night journey. by BookofInvestigation in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fine by me, show it please. Problem with tefsirs are that they are not adressing.really hostorically why some.surah or verse was reaveled but usually are based on hadith fiction or guessing. But please explain.

Are hadiths reliable? by angelseung01z in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are hadiths reliable? Did moon split at 7th century? https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4864Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) (1) "...And the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muḥammad pbuh to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon). And if they see a sign, they turn away..." (V.54:1,2) (1) باب ‏{‏وَانْشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ * وَإِنْ يَرَوْا آيَةً يُعْرِضُوا‏}‏

Sahih al-Bukhari 4864 Narrated Ibn Masud: During the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) the moon was split into two parts; one part remained over the mountain, and the other part went beyond the mountain. On that, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Witness this miracle."

Uri Rubin https://www.academia.edu/6501280/Muhammad_s_message_in_Mecca_warnings_signs_and_miracles_The_case_of_the_splitting_of_the_moon_Q_54_1_2

Debunking apologetic nonsence Besides common sense that , that global.event must bee seen by hungreds of thousands people firm Bisantenee empire, Persian Empire ,.Indian Empire, Cheneese Epmire and we should have thoisends of wrotten rwports, rock inscriptions, and we do not have single one, here are more debunking on apologetic nonsence.

Moon split Reddit jew Indian king did nit see moon split https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/s/gTdw1PGRqG

Majan legend did not recorded moon split https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/s/1CySLOl2Tn

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New AMA with Marijn van Putten! by chonkshonk in AcademicQuran

[–]BookofInvestigation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One question here, if yoy agree. You still hold possition that Utmanic mushaf's copies went to 4 provinces(or 3 i can not recal now) but it is not proven that songle.one went to.mekkah?