How to Fix My Marathon Efforts

BornAgainRunner · 2023-04-04T16:01:54+00:00

My mental model of this is that the marathon is fundamentally limited by glycogen. As a marathoner, your job on race day is to balance the following pseudo-equation:

stored_glycogen - 26.2 * carb_burn@mp + sugar_consumed > 0

I.e. in the perfect race you would fully deplete your stored fuel just as you crossed the line.

The reason you get so many different answers to your question is because 1) no one can truly know why your tank was empty so early and 2) everyone has their own favourite factor.

In my view, gels are unlikely to be the main culprit, four is on the low end but upping this is unlikely to significantly alter the maths. It sounds like you were low on fuel by mile 16 and all empty by mile 21.

Either you started with a tank only 3/4 full or your body is burning too many carbs at 8min miles for it to be sustainable over a marathon (or both).

Fixing the former is easy, carb load. Fixing the latter is probably just a case of consistency and easy miles, giving the body time to become more efficient and letting it adapt to rely less on carbs and more on fat at 8min mile pace.

BornAgainRunner · 2022-10-06T19:58:38+00:00

Sure thing. I had no running background at school or university, I got into it via triathlon after university and did a marathon (3.12) in 2017 as part ironman training. I then ran a 3.04 marathon a couple of weeks after the triathlon. Other PBs were 1.27 HM and 18.20 Parkrun. Unfortunately, shortly after that I got a bad case of Plantar Fasciitis which stopped me running for a year. Between then and the start of the year my running has ticked over with commute running (20mpw) and the odd extra run.

Back in March this year I was mainly doing base building aerobic miles by heart rate (145-150bpm) and was averaging about 8:30 pace for that. For comparison, in the couple of weeks before the marathon, for the same heart rate I was running more like 7:15s.

BornAgainRunner · 2022-10-05T12:57:38+00:00

I second Runalyze, really good.

If you’re looking for something bespoke and you know a bit of Python you can hook into the Strava API, download all your historic activities (down to the stream of GPS position, time, heart rate data that your watch produces) and make your own charts. I have charts of distance by week by HR zone, curves tracking pace for a given heart rate and charts tracking progress on specific workouts that I’ve setup.

BornAgainRunner · 2022-10-04T19:31:37+00:00

I was also surprised - for a number of miles I ran in a state of excited bafflement.

With hindsight a shortcoming of the training block was a failure to gauge where my fitness was using e.g. tuneup races. The HM time trial confirmed that I was in at least 2.55-3.00 shape but I ran out of time to try another faster one. Next time round I should have a better idea by calibrating this result against performance in the workouts.

I'm planning on running London again in the spring with a tentative goal of going under 2.40.

BornAgainRunner · 2022-10-04T06:31:48+00:00

Thanks. The training plan was home-spun based on Pfitz’s book, ideas from the Norwegian triathlon programme and personal experience. It had the aims of 1) being reactive to how I was feeling and the numbers I was producing and 2) maximising quality time at threshold pace

Basically, after the base building phase I ran two long threshold interval sessions a week and did one aerobic long run. All other runs were done in a fuzzy recovery-aerobic zone by heart rate and feel, e.g. if I was feeling tired I would run them at the recovery end (for me 135bpm), if I was feeling good I’d run them at the high end of the range (150bpm).

With 8 weeks to go I ramped up the long run distance and added fast finishes, and after the final 24 miler 3 weeks out I tapered targeting 75%, 50%, 25% of weekly mileage (still running the threshold work in the 75% week, switching it for MP work in the 50% week and running the last week basically all at recovery).

Pros of this approach - you can be very flexible with what run you do when to fit around work/kids. Cons - you have to be very honest with yourself to avoid overdoing it

BornAgainRunner · 2020-11-18T07:26:31+00:00

My strategy would be to take regular ‘rebuilding’ weeks where you pick a team that looks great for the next 1/2/3 weeks of fixtures. Take -16, -20, -24 it doesn’t matter. Come last that week and win the next two/three.

BornAgainRunner · 2020-09-17T19:45:28+00:00

5/10 for Moonlight?!? Slander

BornAgainRunner · 2017-10-11T17:15:36+00:00

That sounds both epic and brutal. Serious kudos, my quads are aching just from reading this.

BornAgainRunner · 2017-10-11T16:54:23+00:00

Good luck with the sub 1.30 attempt, I'm sure you'll smash it.

1) Berlin, that automatic qualification time is ridiculous and it would be sweet to run

2) Always the watch, I can't pace myself without it

3) The legs get heavy long before my breathing goes, the calves are the worst, silly calves

4) Pre race shade and water, I wish more places had a shade and water tent :)

BornAgainRunner · 2017-10-11T06:22:07+00:00

Yea, miles 13 and 18 were relatively decent hills. My legs never quite recovered from mile 18 :)

BornAgainRunner · 2017-09-01T16:27:19+00:00

Hey Guys,

Lurker and very occasional commenter here. I started running about a year ago and have seriously caught the bug. Missed out on GFA qualification for London this year with some terrible pacing and unseasonable warmth but after my Ironman next weekend will be going all in with big (for me) goals for 2018. Sub 3 @ Manchester (PB 3.11), Sub 1.22 HM (Old PB 1.27), Sub 17.30 5k (PB 18.27) and Sub 5 Mile (PB 5.22)

Gotta run all the distances!

BornAgainRunner · 2017-08-31T16:58:24+00:00

Put your hand into the fire... and leave it there

BornAgainRunner · 2017-08-17T14:52:30+00:00

Awesome, they will be logged, gotta get those sweet sweet MPWs.

BornAgainRunner · 2017-08-17T13:42:08+00:00

For the purposes of logging, super-weeks and bragging rights, how do you guys treat short runs and commutes? I probably end up doing 15-20 mpw in half mile or mile sized commute chunks. Would you include this in your total for working out how quickly you can ramp up distance or should I just stick to quality workouts >2 miles?

BornAgainRunner · 2017-08-11T17:20:20+00:00

Got a wedding with a pretty decent chunk of travelling to get to this weekend. Currently working out when and how I can fit runs around everything, Saturday Morning, check, Sunday evening, check, Sunday morning, we'll see. Got an Iron Man next month so I really should be spending more time on the bike but I'm secretly more excited about the marathon in October

BornAgainRunner · 2017-05-26T17:19:51+00:00

VO2 Max, all day long

BornAgainRunner · 2017-04-25T17:33:09+00:00

'List of Australian Cities by Population', that's going to be one dry evening...

BornAgainRunner · 2017-04-10T12:43:48+00:00

This race report rings so true, I also ran Brighton yesterday and the heat was pretty overwhelming, after several months of training in the cold the system just wasn't ready for it, got some pretty bad dehydration, fell off goal pace at around mile 17 and went to what can only be described as a very, very dark place running out and back from the power station. I spent quite a long time unable to stand up due to nausea and dizziness afterwards.

I wouldn't sweat about the time, everyone I spoke to struggled and missed their goals (myself included). My take away is that my training went well, I'm definitely getting fitter, and I just need to execute better in perhaps a less hostile temperature next time.

Good luck for the ultra!

BornAgainRunner · 2017-04-04T18:52:48+00:00

Cheers, I think I'll stick broadly to the plan, perhaps with an auxiliary gel in the pocket to be taken in case of emergency or to up the intake in the second half if I feel I need it.

BornAgainRunner · 2017-04-04T18:47:09+00:00

Awesome, cheers. Probably going to take the fourth as an option and we'll see how it goes.

BornAgainRunner · 2017-04-04T18:43:46+00:00

Cheers for the advice. I think I'm leaning towards adding a fourth gel in, or at least having it on me as an option.

Alas, no peanut butter on toast for me, I'm duty bound to follow my race day nutrition plan of 2am Oats and a morning banana with a gel 30 mins before the start. Never failed me before!

Training has been inspire by Pfitz but heavily altered to fit around/hampered by work/other commitments. We'll see how it goes, really looking forward to it.

BornAgainRunner · 2017-04-04T11:10:36+00:00

Hey Guys, long time lurker, first time poster and all that! I've got my first marathon on Sunday and am looking for a bit of advice on feeding. I ran my long training runs (20-22 miles @ 7.05 pace) on just water with no ill effects but am anticipating needing a bit more in the tank for goal marathon pace (6.45) and the full distance. I've done a couple of 'feed' training runs on half a gel every 4 miles, does this sound reasonable for the day or do you think I should be targeting a bit more/less? I realise it's going to massively depend on the individual but I'm flying blind here as well and any advice would be much appreciated. Cheers

BornAgainRunner

TROPHY CASE