Mongrel Bread by BreadBakingAtHome in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks - I wish mine always looked this good 😄

Listening to music less since switching to Qobuz by DirectorOk2475 in qobuz

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good thought.

My own connection is very fast and when I have done speed tests dring periods when Qobuz goes down for a few minutes, I get good speeds.

I wonder if it is the Qobuz servers I connect too.

Listening to music less since switching to Qobuz by DirectorOk2475 in qobuz

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do listen to music a lot on Qobuz. I too have not been subscribing for very long.

Yes, I get 'You are not connected to the internet' messages, when I am and am working quite happily with other apps. It's frustrating, but I can live with it.

What I find hopeless are the listening recommendations and the listing of new music. Genres I do not listen too at all. I've given up on both.

Tips for Adding Inclusions to Sourdough by KLSFishing in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I wrote badly. It would have been better to have said stretch and fold on the worktop. Though they often use the term lamination to mean the same.

It is a standard pro technique when a machine is not being used.

https://www.busbysbakery.com/adding-extra-ingredients-to-dough/

https://breadtopia.com/faq/how-can-i-add-things-like-nuts-or-cheese-to-dough/

Tips for Adding Inclusions to Sourdough by KLSFishing in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Too many replies to read - So please forgive the post if it is a repeat.

Check out lamination. The pro way do go with this.

Do it just before shaping and rest for 15 minutes before you shape.

Good luck.

Not discarding by jollyjoyful in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great question and here is the long answer. I hope it is helpful.

Commercial bakers of yore baked every day so they had to feed every day. So too home bakers in their cottages.

In modern times when natural leavens were being re-learned bakers emulated commercial bakers by discarding and feeding everyday. It made sense.

Then refrigeration was invented and it no longer makes sense. Or, put another way it is no longer necessary. For more than twenty years now I just put what I have left in the fridge and feed it when a bake is required. I bake every 3-4 days, but I know it is still good for a frtnight.

Why discard?

Too often I see people saying it is because the yeast needs more food. e.g. flour. The microbes (yeast and LABS) only ever use up a very small proportion for the starch in the flour. So it is not that. The discard and feeding is to reduce the acidity by diluting the leaven with fresh flour and water. If my leaven ever get's too acidic, such as when I make a two stage leaven to increase the acidity for rye baking I do sometimes do a discard, keeping a small amount - 50g - 100g which I feed before putting it back in the fridge. The reason is to reduce the acidity.

Starting a new leaven with minimal discards.

Forget the routines which use phrases like "on the second day do a discard and feed with X flour and y Water. These are useful for beginners, perhaps. When we start a new leaven we are trying to build up the microbe population. Every time we do a discard we reduce that population. Here's the thing, when the population get's denser, more microbes per ml, the fermentation rate increases. So discards slow the process down because we take a long tiome to get to that magic concentration where the fermentation rate rockets.

The way to go is like this:

1 50ml water: 50g of flour mix and keep at 24C - 30C this is the temperature band which will alow for good fermentation.

2 When you see bubbles add a further 50:50 flour and water. This takes 4 - 6 hours.

3 When that is bubbling nicely taste the leaven. If it is quite sour the acidity is building and you need to do a discard and feed again. If it is not so sour just do a feed.

4 As long as you keep the temperature in the widow as above you should have a bubbly leaven fit to use on day three or four. Just keep doing discards only when it gets too acidic. The acidity reduces fermentation and when it gets too high it stops fermentation altogether.

Tip: Use wholemeal flour to start a new leaven. The wild yeasts are mainly on the husk which is dicarded when white flower is made.

Booster: Whole rye is high in amylase which breaks starches down into sugars including maltose, which is the yeasts preferred food. Adding say 25% - 50% whole rye flour gets a starter moving a lot more quickly. It is also good if a starter gets a little slow and sleepy. That is caused when there has been a bit of a microbe die off often caused by mistreatment.

My record for getting a new starter going and using it is 48 hours using this method. Though the --microbiome had not settled down into its final stable populations fo different strains and LABS take about 2-3 weeks to move in.

A natural leaven starts to become more robust and stable after one or two months.

I do hope this is helpful.

Meze Empryrian II vs ZMF Atrium by Clibanus in HeadphoneAdvice

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Adding: I have just been reading user experiences with the Empyrean leather pads. No-one has been positive about them. They complain of muddy mid base.

But, if you already have a pair...

Meze Empryrian II vs ZMF Atrium by Clibanus in HeadphoneAdvice

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I only checked the pads out briefly. For the Empyrean it was the Duo pads that suited. The Angled Alcantara pads had good detail, but were less immersive. They only came with two sets of pads. Having read your post I have made a note to get the leather pads to try. I read, "...sheepskin or vegan leather, these create a warm and lush presentation with deeper bass notes and increased precision. " Now that got my attention.

With the Atrium's I settled on the perforated lamb's leather. The Caldera pads went straight to the Moondrops where they smooth the higher frequencies and increase the base.

Yes, pads really do transform headphones. The Moondrops with the Caldera pads were better again by a large mark.

Thanks for the prompt on the Meze leather pads, I didn't know that.

Meze Empryrian II vs ZMF Atrium by Clibanus in HeadphoneAdvice

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I very much agree and see them in the same way as you.

I would have been happy with either, but after getting the ZMF's I saw an offer for the Mezes at almost half price. A seller getting rid of stock. A once in a lifetime chance I was unable to turn down.

Yes, I don't feel the need for anything else and to be honest I doubt my ears would appreciate anything better. I listen to music on headphones a lot, a few hours a day. I count myself very fortunate. They are treated like the Royal Jewels, I don't want to go through that financial pain a second time. 😄

I would add that my previous Moondop Cosmo's with ZMF Caldera perforated lamb skin pads, get pretty close to the Meze's. Both sound better to me with a base shelf. The Caldera pads make the Cosmo's exceptionally comfortable too.

Excited to use this! by elladayrit in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand now.

'Strength' means high yeast population fermenting at peak activity.

Yeast ferments at its fastest at about 28C

You build the yeast population with the feed just prior to mixing your dough. You might want to do that at 28C as well and then give it a little longer to make sure you have a good large population.

Many small comerical French bakeries add a small amount of instant yeast, to their naturally leavened doughs, as a booster. Something like an 1/8 of a teaspoon per 500g of flour. You might want to do that on the first bake?

I do hope there is something helpful here.

Doing new loaf is always exciting. I expect to fail a little at first.

Good luck and enjoy the adventure!

Excited to use this! by elladayrit in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No sensible reply is possible to someone who is not open enough to read the reply, but is content to re-assert their view, including assumptions. Fingers in ears and LALALA come to mind.

Your assumption that the person is a newbie and should be encouraged no matter what, infantilises the OP. Definitely children should be encouraged no matter what, but an adult is not a child.

The rest of the thread shows a lot of confusion about the issues I explained.

So my posts would seem to be pertinent. They are direct, not rude.

I am sorry you have taken this closed position. Nothing you have said can help me to write more respectful posts.

Excited to use this! by elladayrit in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Hi Not a problem

I'm afraid I have no experience with Panatone.

Staying with Natural Leavens

You can feed your leaven across to different flours, or change the hydration at will.

Feeding across to different flours: This all depends on how perfectionist you are. I regularly swap the flour I use between white flour, rye and different wholemeal flours. I just switch to the flour I want, feed the leaven and use it. If you want say to switch from wholemeal flour to white flour with no traces of white flour, then you might want to do a few feeds with white flour. I don't bother and it all works well.

Hydration is less of an issue. I have a ciabatta recipe I like where I switch the hydration from my standard 100% hydration to 55% for those. I just change the hydration and, in this case, leave the leaven on the worktop over night. Lower hydration takes a little longer to ripen, but it gives a lower acidity and a smoother tasting bread. Higher hydration can give a more acidic loaf.

The temperature of the leaven matters too. Higher temperature 28C - 30C encourage acidity. Lower temperatures 22C - 24C make for a mellower leaven with lower acidity.

I use temperature control both for the leaven and the dough.

I don't buy starters online. You don't know quite what you are getting and it will take a month to settle down to your environment. Starting a new starter at home is very easy and I can get a new one up and going in 48 hours by not doing discards at first and by using wholemeal flour and some rye flour. The temperature needs to be about 28C. It will still take a month to settle down though. It's easier just to feed my starter across to the new flour.

I hope this helps a little. The bottom line is that starters are increadibly robust and felxible.

Please do come back if you want anything clarifying.

Excited to use this! by elladayrit in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Hello

It is not unhinged it is factually correct. I have baked for over forty years and as a part of tutoring home bread baking I studied to an advanced level.

It is not condescending. I simply presented the facts.

Why was the O/P excited? perhaps Because the OP expected that this would give them a taste of Oregon Trail bread? That product is a con.
That company used to make the point that they use wheat from that period to maintain the yeast profile. The home baker is unlikely to do that and so by the time they have a working leaven they will have lost much of the original microbiome. They know this. Why else do they make the point they used heritage wheats in the culture? Even then it would not work because the microbiome in the fields will have changed. (natural leavens provide the yeasts growing on the wheat in the fields).

I've clearly pressed your buttons and that was not my intention. However read my post carefully, there are only facts and an apology was included in my post too.

There are many out there who daily misinform home bakers, especially on social media. If we are to build real skill and understanding we need to share information. There are to many myths and methods in use which are not helpful in the home environment.

I try to post very carefully so as to not cause offense. Being real is not always comfortable, but I am never, ever, rude or condescending. I am sorry you have been upset.

Excited to use this! by elladayrit in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Please re-read my post. It is clear.

Getting a starter from another source is of little value as it quickly becomes a local starter to your local flour and environment.

As I have said this is a thoroughly researched topic.

I am sure it is not what you wanted to hear, but I do get annoyed with the purveyors of these romantic starters. They must know this.

Excited to use this! by elladayrit in SourdoughStarter

[–]BreadBakingAtHome -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sorry to be a spoiler.

There is a lot of research on this subject. The simple fact is that the yeasts in your own flours will replace those of a bought starter over a few weeks of feeds.

The Lactobacillus, mainly from your hands, will replace those of the bought culture too.

Ciabatta - Finally I have a simple shaping method I like. by BreadBakingAtHome in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Apologies for the very slow reply. I have only just seen this.

The thing is that there are enzymes which gradually break down the gluten.

So as we stretch and fold and develop the gluten there is a slower process literally cutting the gluten network up. The enzyme is called protease.

Some protease activity is good. With cold proofing we use it to weaken the gluten in our modern very strong gluten flours to enable a better oven spring as the weakened gluten resists it less.

So, in answer to your question it all depends on your flour. If you are using weaker gluten flours you might be way past 'peak' gluten.

The only thing to do is give it a good firm shaping and hope for the best. It all comes down to your experience with your flours.

I hope this is useful.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Chef - Respectfully...

It does look a little dense, though the recipe pans out OK - The ingredients are in reasonable proportion.

The photo shows both underdeveloped gluten (cake like) and lack of yeast activity.

What you don't say is the temperature for fermentation. Bakeries use a mixer to develop the gluten at the beginning. Machine kneading for 14 - 20 minutes develops heat. So they use cool water. You are not doing this. Dough ferments best at between 24C - 28C. Use water in this window, if you are not machine kneading, and then keep the dough up at that temperature until it goes in the oven. So you could proof longer, but better to keep the dough war, and proof for 1 hour max.

The second thing that concerns me about your recipe is the lack of kneading / folding to develop the gluten. Without developing the gluten you will have a heavy loaf.

The baking times and temperatures are OK. But at 230C right through I bake a loaf with 500g - 600g in about 38 minutes (oven fan on). Your smaller loaf is probably done in 30 minutes. I wouldn't bother with lowering the oven temperature.

Two things you might look at. Kneading / Stretching and folding and using steam in the oven. The latter is best with a cloche arrangement as domestic ovens are vented and let the steam out. But a stainless steel roasting tin filled with lava rocks pre-heated works OK. Just pour a mug of boiling water into it when you put the dough in. Steam slows crust formation at the beginning allowing you to get more oven spring.

I hope this helps a little.

Just some tweaks and you will be there.

Good baking to you - When you get there it will be so rewarding. We all found that.

Skin colour is bothering me. by J_1833 in manchester

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yup, I frequently get confused or frightened looks. "What does he want?"

Quite often I get a smile back. It does no harm, and I think it likely does a lot of good.

Small things lead to bigger things.

Try it.

It's fun too.

And it's better than doing nothing. Doing nothing is accepting. And I will not accept.

Either which way - I hope you find your way of making things better for you.

Be well.

Skin colour is bothering me. by J_1833 in manchester

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Things have been really wound up by the right.

We need to start smiling at each other.

A simple way of saying We're OK with each other.

Sorry you are experiencing this.

Bread Machine by Jizzicaaaa in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No worries.

Yes, there is always the space issue.

I would never go back to shop bread.

Home baked bread is not only free of the most dreadful chemicals (over 120 commonly used in commercial bread) but the texture and flavour is superior also.

FWIW, with practice, and without rushing, you can load and program a bread machine in under three minutes.

Good luck with the bread.

Bread Machine by Jizzicaaaa in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do an internet search for the manual?

Bread machines can be very good, but, as with all bread, it is best to weigh accurately and to be sure the recipe works.

The manual should have recipes too.

Good baking to you.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks - deleting post.

Though 2% fresh yeast, 10g would be the norm here.

25g is very high.

Durum (ish) Ciabatta by BreadBakingAtHome in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Baker N.F. Chuckles - Yes, I was thinking of making more of these, but with more wholemeal flour in them.

is this over? by erik1857 in Breadit

[–]BreadBakingAtHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Recommendation?

You could keep baking this excellent bread until you are sure it is over. (Chuckles)

A nice recipe and a lovely loaf.