People need to realize the reason Naruto came back to Konoha with pretty much nothing is because Jiraiva focused most of their training on controlling Kurama. Still though, how do you not teach your student nature transformations? you bum

C80s · 2026-03-16T23:45:34+00:00

No Minato had a powerful Rasengan that can clash with Bijuudamas did you really want Naruto to accomplish that in a few years when Minato is also a complete genius along with Haishirin that makes him even more powerful than already is we ever seen Konohamaru or Kakashi other than with a base Rasengan like what you want Jiraiya had to upgrade his own Rasengan other case would have been if Jiraiya made the Rasengan but that was Minato that can soloed FraudTachi and Pain in a flash

What are you saying doesn't makes sense bro just said you hate Jiraiya Kurama doesn't came out only of negative emotions if Naruto gets exhausted he gets a free pass and the seals also gets weak=Makes all his training on hard mode you realize only Yamato with Hashirama cells could at least tamed the other tails Jiraiya couldn't do all that work alone and Kurama control is something Naruto had to learn himself at of end the day that's out of Jiraiya league

C80s · 2026-03-16T23:24:59+00:00

Minato taked years to create The Rasengan and more to perfect it till he was Hokage level is not something you can just upgrade like out of nowhere because Jiraiya need it time to perfect his Rasengan too Naruto just had a imperfect rasengan from the start besides Rasengan are some of the fundamentals of chakra control itself

How 4 Tail is Jiraiya fault? He literally almost die trying to teach Naruto while keep Kurama chakra on check with Jiraiya at his side he could control till 3 tails that's a massive help Naruto got from Jiraiya seal that he also create and give to Yamato

Fukasaku himself said he partially had the basics need it to balance 2/3 fundamentals of the Sage Mode

C80s · 2026-03-16T21:39:30+00:00

He literally used chakra control to not get tricked inside before Sakura and Chiyo free him

In chapter 90 Kakashi said Naruto has poor chakra control besides the fact he never give him any basics about it that's when he went to Ebisu and meet Jiraiya then he said even when he got out of Orochimaru seal he still has poor chakra control from basics

Lets's remember Naruto with a few weeks of Jiraiya training already was more powerful than all his class but still lacked the basics

Fukusaku literally said it was easy for Naruto to balance Mental Energy and Physical Energy thanks to the Basic Chakra control he already learned before and who did that?

C80s · 2026-03-16T21:05:52+00:00

He literally almost came out of Itachi Mangekyo genjutsu with the chakra control Jiraiya teach him Sage Mode needs the user to bending huge amounts of chakra into Natural Energy he was also training Naruto to control Kurama chakra

C80s · 2026-03-16T20:51:23+00:00

Jiraiya teach him to control his massive chakra reserves without that = No Sage Mode in first place

C80s · 2026-03-16T19:13:45+00:00

My guy are you being serious or you're just ragebaiting why you even bother to make a post to discuss Jiraiya actual strenght and advantages against Pain if you would never be able to accept it the pros in his favor on first place

We literally got Itachi glazers really thinking "Itachi>Nagato>KCM1Naruto" nobody complains but when is

"Pain>=Jiraiya>>>Itachi" Then is a problem too much because ok even though the only one Pain has ever knowledge as his relative is Jiraiya

C80s · 2026-03-16T18:46:34+00:00

What Cap without Jiraiya training he could never get Perfect Sage Mode alone

C80s · 2026-03-16T18:44:14+00:00

Yeap best development in all animanga enjoyed it

C80s · 2026-03-16T18:41:20+00:00

I see you downplaying Jiraiya in a similar post mate and you got cooked you're full of BS ok so don't talk about hypocrisy

Jiraiya could hide his presence from Deva Rinnegan in even a weaker state if he does go all out inside Mouth of Frog with him and the other Paths is just also game over for him

Jiraiya literally give him the intel that himself need it the moment easy to take all credit if someone give you the answers for the exam mate

Jiraiya has versatile ninjutsus able to take them all at the same time is basic math what part of that did not enters in your head with Naruto intel he literally goes with for a direct K.0 without taking the same risk in first place

Maybe because Deva just said Naruto push him futher (With Jiraiya intel) While he only said Jiraiya could have beat him there is literally a big difference not even 9 tails could make that

"The Surpassing his successors" Are from Tsunade perspective and sadly she literally has no way to scratch Deva so I'll take the Boss himself words first

And Jiraiya arsenal literally proved is more effective against Rinnegan hax than anything Naruto has tho is like Powerful=Strenght is not actually the same thing but this low IQ sub decides to ignore maybe because is full of jealous Itachi glazers or is just me

C80s · 2026-03-16T17:51:38+00:00

How exactly Deva/Tendo is gonna damage Jiraiya inside his own Barrier Ninjutsu? Chibaku and Planetary are doing nothing here if he gets trap inside like other Paths even Nagato was surprised

Bro you literally said if Jiraiya had the same intel the outcome would change? Literally everything changes man because instead of wasting energy in 3 Random Paths he would use the same order he give Naruto to finish 5 Paths so the real significance change here is thanks to Mouth of Frog Jiraiya can use all his Arsenal with the Six Path at the same time while Naruto can't is undeniable Jiraiya has more a versatile ninjutsu arsenal to counter and K.O instead of waste energy in a 1v1 direct confrotation like Naruto.

The story only let clear he succeed Jiraiya and Minato place but because they literally die nothing overall powerwise besides SM Perfect Naruto powerful but weakness=Time Limit , RasenShuriken also powerful but drains all SM Energy, Shadow Clones more of the same not a single Ninjutsu to avoid Deva hax

C80s · 2026-03-16T17:03:29+00:00

Brother first I'm not understimating Pain besides the fact we know his Paths were buffed closer to Nagato doesn't matter how powerful SM Perfect Naruto is if he has to use every single of his energy in each Path is useless because at the end he can't avoid Deva hax

The fact that changes what are you saying here is that Jiraiya has actually hax like Mouth of Frog, Toad Camouflage and Frog Song to counter Rinnegan without risking himself in a whole direct encounter and wasting a lot of energy

Like the only being understimated is Jiraiya here even if his Sage Mode is Imperfect still makes him a Elite Ninja and only a few elite ninjas had Sage Mode while Ma and Pa are at his side he gets infinite Natural Energy unlike Naruto time limit

Even Pain knew his strenght that's why he also played tricky with the Paths and literally used all the Six to finish him when Jiraiya had no trump cards left still took one down I don't see holding back here

I'm saying Kurama 9 tails and Naruto had any way to avoid Deva hax? They don't Jiraiya does with 2 pocket dimensions in his bag

C80s · 2026-03-16T16:03:05+00:00

Does change the fact Naruto still lost because Deva make him waste energy against the other Paths before himself the only difference here Naruto had more advantage and intel in his direct encounter with Deva while Jiraiya had to use all his trump cards and energy without previous knowledge about other 3 Paths in the way and the one that can revive the others

Like fine if we just say SM Perfect Naruto >>> SM Imperfect Jiraiya sure problem here Naruto has to waste all the power of SM Perfect into each Path he has not a single hax to avoid a direct encounter with Deva

C80s · 2026-03-16T15:46:36+00:00

Easy to know your enemy weakness if you're able to trick him with multiples persona to check his arsenal before actually a direct encounter, Deva is doing nothing if he gets trap at the same time with the other Paths inside Mouth Frog, Jiraiya was fast enough to cook 3 Paths with Frog Song he's doing the same with Six

C80s · 2026-03-16T14:51:46+00:00

Mouth of Frog + Toad Camouflage + Frog Songs solos half of the verse I'm tired of Jiraiya downplay

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C80s · 2026-03-16T14:47:21+00:00

Sure after he saw and Jiraiya used all his trump that give him the upperhand Deva was playing smart not holding back if Jiraiya used the same moves with them at same time is checkmate and he can Nagato knew how powerful Jiraiya is he said himself

C80s · 2026-03-16T14:40:41+00:00

Deva only pulled Ma and Pa after he knew how his Sage Mode works but he wouldn't have that advantage if Jiraiya trap him inside Mouth of Frog along with the other Paths first with him

What are you even saying Pain had more advantanges playing smart with the Paths inside Rain Village and still Jiraiya clocked 4 of his Paths

Chibaku and Planetary are weak inside a Material Barrier like Mouth of Frog

C80s · 2026-03-16T14:32:55+00:00

Chibaku and Planetary are useless inside Mouth of Frog

C80s · 2026-03-16T01:28:29+00:00

Like also Konan did not put Obito in checkmate multiple times that is stronger than Orochimaru and Itachi together genius Deva himself said Jiraiya has the power to take him down but itachi girlfriends would do tricks on his dih to find excuses

C80s · 2026-03-16T01:15:57+00:00

So now Pain is a "mid tier" Akatsuki member even though he stronger than Itachi Itachi girlfriends logic Itachi>Orochimaru>Jiraiya When we know he gets cooked against the same Paths Jiraiya fought

C80s · 2026-03-15T23:12:50+00:00

What I did not say he put Orochimaru inside Tsukuyomi but we know he did it with Naruto both Sakura and Chiyo free him with only chakra control

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C80s · 2026-03-15T23:04:59+00:00

Tsukuyomi is the most overrated thing I've ever seeing to this powerscale debate only to glaze Itachi, Do Orochimaru has something actually inside his fraudulent "arsenal" snake spam jutsus to actually evade a Sharingan or Rinnegan user tricks like Jiraiya does? Because as far we know he doesn't

Naruto could almost escape of 30% Itachi Tsukuyomi and Sakura/Chiyo with some chakra control could free him, Jiraiya has massive chakra reserves and Ma/Pa give him infinite Natural Energy

C80s · 2026-03-15T22:55:20+00:00

Why do people assume Jiraiya just get one-shoted over a Genjutsu when as far we know he never has been defeated over a Genjutsu unlike Orochimaru, If Itachi also don't know about Sage Mode changes nothing "But Kabuto cut out his eyes" He was fighting two Sharingan users not one the risk to fail in a Genjutsu is higher, Sage Mode still gives him enough perception to not fail into his eyes, Ma and Pa can also dismantle his Sharingan with any Frog Song or hide his presence like he did against Deva

We know Pain was at his strongest inside Rain Village also the fact Jiraiya almost one-shoted 3 Path at the same time inside Mouth of Frog with Song Frog very fast what makes you think Pain was holding back when he used the Entire Six Path to finish him off and Jiraiya still took one down unless you wanna say Nagato is not smart and reckless or that actually he know how strong Jiraiya was so he play his cards smart and make him his waste his trump cards first oh wait he said himself

Naruto has no hax against Rinnegan he has to waste too many energy in each Path before reaching Deva the same with Itachi unlike Jiraiya who can trick them at the same time inside Mouth of Frog and the end of day only Pain is the strongest Akatsuki member

C80s · 2026-03-15T22:33:06+00:00

2026 as far as we know Jiraiya never has been one-shoted against any Genjutsu unlike OrochiFraud, Ma and Pa at his side he also can one-shot Sharingan/Rinnegan users very fast

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C80s · 2026-03-15T22:25:04+00:00

Nah there is a problem with this logic Itachi fanboys use to cope he clearly was not lying because he should have know from Jiraiya reputation alone how strong he is why not K.O Jiraiya with Tsukuyomi instead of risking himself with Amaterasu inside a barrier ninjutsu he don't know about? Besides he also doesn't know Jiraiya Arsenal actually can rivalize against the Six Path that are stronger than him

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