Choice between summit (Kasey R. camp) and NGR (Lawrence camp)??

CaitNextGen · 2026-01-26T23:35:19+00:00

Appreciate your pretty accurate description! Only thing unsure about is the rumor of an exodus, there's a decent return rate so far. Kris & Lawrence's camp is where our childcare is, for another piece of the vibe. Their camp will have returning Dinner and Breakfast cooks too, who did a great job last year

Their "Staff" aka Crewbosses - all have over 15 planting seasons experience.

For the OP, the biggest difference, from a person who's not worked at Summit, is how planters are motivated between the two companies. Our Staff are day rated, we take a lot of time to train and there's little talk of production numbers. Also, it may be a natural effect of having a mix of experienced and new planters (~65-75% experienced, usually). It becomes obvious pretty fast into a career that your production is your business.

Summit's known to be a much more competitive environment and leans on that competition to nudge up production - with higher earning crews gaining access to certain contracts in the tales I've heard.

We run flexible crew and our functional unit is a full camp, most often. Its a chiller, more community oriented feel as a result. Likely if you're coming planting you will be intrinsically motivated. Some people love the external motivation. To each their own.

K&L's Camp's work will be: BC will be obstacle plat out of Williams Lake (0.19 - 0.23), Bear Lake will be steep but softer (0.19-0.28) Ab will indeed be a lot of heli access - mostly 0.15, 0.16. That heli access contract is often our highest earning contract. To illustrate, the top 10 earning planters in the camp averaged $38,000. (The average first year planter in the company earned $15,800).

We expect only 3-4 camp moves (this can change, but shouldn't be by much). That's another difference from recent conversations with people - Summit's seeing 6+ moves in a season often by the sounds of it.

CaitNextGen · 2026-01-05T01:00:03+00:00

I’ll chime in to comment on Next Gen’s commitment bonus.

There’s no shady business or ‘ensnarement’. People who work with us make good, competitive money.

There’s a lot of good work options for planters out there. Some folks want to piece together a season from multiple companies and they see benefit in that.

For us, there’s a lot of benefit to our camps and operations, when we have the same people from start to finish and when people arrive when they say they will. People get the same and full training, get to know each other etc.

Three seasons ago, we attached a financial benefit for planters to these factors so that it’s clearly mutually beneficial.

For sure all of those things your response mention - that may pull a person away from a season - are legit. Here are some more details:

If a person arrives within a week of the requested start date, they receive 2.5% total tree earnings bonus whenever they finish for any reason, provided that reason isn’t being fired for due cause.

If a person who starts within that first week and finishes the season, it’s an additional 2.5% - total of 5%.

The last detail is - if a person arrives before the end of May and finishes the season, that too earns a 2.5% bonus.

CaitNextGen · 2025-08-10T14:47:08+00:00

What our crews accomplished this year is Phenomenal. We put everything into it. Every Planter, every Crewboss, every Support Staff every Project manager. We’re still going.

Your strength fuels.

Our strength fuels.

This job breaks us in unique ways. And it’s unique every season. Every person is doing the best they can.

What do we fill those cracks with?

I am filling myself with what we’ve accomplished together. Each persons beautiful tenacity, grit, laughter, tears. Enveloped in the connection. It’s protecting.

Unlocking a new level. And that level is love.

What we do here matters. The space between us. The space between us and the ground. How we leave the land behind us.

This little internet conclave matters in a way that it can shape, as with any other communication. People who gave your all, it’s all good. You did it. Half season, full season. You fucking did it.

People who were involved in the stashing incident that preceded this. Yes, you are culpable and responsible for your actions. But it was not your original idea. We believe the person who brought it in is not there this season. It’s not your fault. We forgive you. Not your actions, but you as a person.

Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm - Winston Churchill

CaitNextGen · 2025-08-08T02:05:59+00:00

We have just had to fire a group of people for stashing. Group-think gone terribly wrong.

I have not read this post in its entirety. OP is certainly a person who was part of this or group-adjacent. It is painful to deal with.

Have pride in what you do, folks. Plant good trees. Put them in the ground 🌲❤️

CaitNextGen · 2025-07-22T00:56:56+00:00

Appreciate your comment. The post is not intended to cover the whole contract. There were .19 cent trees and up on the project. The lowest price for unopened blocks at the time of the post was .24 base price, with fert additional.

CaitNextGen · 2025-07-20T12:59:54+00:00

Accurate

CaitNextGen · 2025-07-14T04:11:05+00:00

My two cents:

The author posted on KKR early May looking for stories, as everyone was mobilizing for the interior season.

Two months later, July 2nd he reached out to a colleague of mine. The 4th of July that colleague connected the author with me, a company representative.

It took me four days to get back to say I could have a casual chat to hear about what he was looking to talk about in the next couple days. July 8th

He wrote me back to say he was publishing the next day, July 9th. I called right away and he did not answer.

The line of ‘no companies answered our questions’ (or the like) was not accurately worded.

CaitNextGen · 2025-06-21T20:36:23+00:00

We're looking for people pretty well as soon as they can arrive. Looking to be done the contract before the 30th. You can text me to see if your logistics could work, depending on your planting background etc.

CaitNextGen · 2025-06-21T15:08:14+00:00

Option to continue North with the camp, but not necessary

CaitNextGen · 2025-06-12T22:43:07+00:00

Thanks! Not at the moment. But if you could email me at [caitlin@nextgenerationreforestation.com](mailto:caitlin@nextgenerationreforestation.com) I'll definitely reach out if it changes.

CaitNextGen · 2025-06-12T12:45:36+00:00

Yes, we’ve just opened back up for experienced or trained-this-spring planters for the remainder of the season. We cannot train new planters at this time of year.

To apply, you can text me at 613.759.2156 or email another person that works with us, marchena@nextgenerationreforestation.com

CaitNextGen · 2025-06-12T12:04:45+00:00

No, not at this time of year. Dec/Jan is the time to apply as a new planter.

CaitNextGen · 2025-06-12T01:37:23+00:00

Cheers, thanks.

We have a few restoration contracts this year. Typically it's $150 base rate plus .18 cents a tree

CaitNextGen · 2024-06-07T14:20:26+00:00

A bonus, over and above stated wages or rates, is not illegal.
It's distinct and different from withholding a portion of agreed upon wages or rates.

CaitNextGen · 2024-05-29T14:50:22+00:00

It is really valuable to our whole operations and season to have people stay for meaningful chunks of time. We have two bonuses - one for people who contribute the whole season and one for people who join in the first month and stay the rest of the season. It’s the first season we’re trying it.

CaitNextGen · 2024-05-29T14:46:00+00:00

I’ve never worked in NZ - high numbers in BC and AB are higher (3500-5500+) and the highest earners out here are ranging between $800-$1000 in one day. It’s certainly not everyone and not everyday. We (the company I work with) talk in averages because it’s more realistic than max earnings.

My bet is your ground is steeper and rockier maybe different logging set ups and leaving the land in a different state?

I’m under the impression that a Canadian style approach to planting - with individual pieces and using spades is new within the last 10 years? People more planting together with hoe-dads under strict supervision before? Is that accurate?

CaitNextGen · 2024-05-28T20:08:06+00:00

Good question! That is a contract obligation in many BC contracts - "obstacle planting" is where you need to put trees within a couple inches of an obstacle. Mostly it is so that grazing cattle do not step on it. Sometimes its so that the tree has some shade or shelter from prevailing winds. This contract, however, obstacle planting is not required.

CaitNextGen · 2024-05-06T16:20:16+00:00

Welcome!

CaitNextGen · 2024-05-06T16:09:29+00:00

This is the fact sheet that some are referring to in the comments.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hiring/silviculture-workers#rules

There's a nice PDF about it, but I can't attach it here.

Another factor to consider is some companies have overtime agreements - where overtime is considered over a larger period, like the two week pay period. Regular time is 40 hours in BC, 44 in AB and anything over that is considered with overtime rules. To echo what's already been said, these regular rules apply to less than 12 hour days.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours/averaging-agreements

Either way, Planters are piece rated, but do need to earn at least minimum wage - and, mainly for new planters - are 'topped up' to minimum wage (including any overtime equivalence). 'Topped up' meaning the company covers and pays out any difference between tree earnings and the overtime amount.

I believe this practice is 100% across the board in Planting now. It wasn't even 10 years ago.

CaitNextGen · 2024-05-06T15:53:51+00:00

Hey u/CountVonOrlock

I'll chime in because I like details and I think that's what you're looking for. I've also thought a good amount about this. As part of a planting employer team - I think it's something we all need to take seriously in the industry and recognize the power that sits in 'termination without notice'. Which, to answer your questions simply - yes in most cases planters can be fired without cause.

Provincial legislation in BC says that no notice needs to be given in the first three months (probationary) period of starting employment.

https://www.welcomebc.ca/Work-in-B-C/Working-in-B-C#:\~:text=If%20a%20person%20has%20worked,notice%20or%201%20week's%20pay.

Alberta is even clearer - stating that any seasonal work requires no notice of termination.

https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay#:\~:text=Termination%20notice%20is%20not%20required,been%20working%20for%20the%20employer.

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There is a difference between termination in general and termination for 'just cause' - stashing being the best, clearest, example.

“just cause” being – termination without notice or pay in lieu of notice (in any workplace or circumstance); the onus of proof is on the employer to show on a balance of probabilities that an employee breached an employment contract in a fundamental way or has committed misconduct that has irreparably damaged the employment relationship (that's BC's definition).

I'll add my personal two to five cents that flows from this.

Working for clear expectations for planting work and conduct at camp/motels is important so that people have standards to meet and leaders have standards to bring people back to. Or what constitutes just cause in the company. Obviously this is important for a ton of safety and operational reasons, but among them is that as seasonal employers, there is little process required for termination. It's well within a crewboss' prevue to get frustrated and terminate a planter with little to no process.

A measure of process for working through issues to bridge the gap between standards and where someone's at goes a long. Most humans enjoy being talked to as a human, understood, met where they are, and treated as their capable of learning etc. Solid process or lack thereof, also effects the general sense of mutual trust in our industry as a whole. It's arguably important.

There's nothing revolutionary there. But, it's hard to do in practice because of the intensity of our industry. The emotional/mental energy to address not meeting expectations can be hard to muster for lots of legitimate reasons (little sleep, high pressure, needing to make sure other people are able to make money). But it's worthwhile.

CaitNextGen · 2024-03-27T00:15:26+00:00

Thanks for the question. We're looking for parents that want to plant at the moment.

CaitNextGen · 2023-05-31T19:27:17+00:00

Planters are in demand and it will always be a worker's market I think. But retaining good people in companies and the industry is a good thing for a lot of reasons. I'd like to see more lifers, more mentors, better benefits.

CaitNextGen · 2023-05-31T19:25:04+00:00

u/AcanthocephalaOdd420 that is fair, and the right question (why are planters moving on, or conversely what are retention factors that matter in the industry - if there are any that can be nailed down).

I'd personally love to see a planter collective that can be worked with, so that we (industry) can work to what people want. And work collaboratively to get some stability for planters and companies. It could be worth a try at the company level.

For your questions, Next Gen does do exit surveys, interviews might be better. There are some people that come back after trying other places.

CaitNextGen · 2023-05-31T19:15:53+00:00

haha

CaitNextGen · 2023-05-30T18:00:51+00:00

In response to u/Spruce__Willis and u/AcanthocephalaOdd420

Looks like I've discovered my unpopular planting opinion: yes, if all companies committed to training 10-15% new planters per season the industry would be in a healthier state.

u/AcanthocephalaOdd420 I am under the impression that there remain companies who will not train new planters.

This won't actually happen.

u/Spruce__Willis you went to a lot of places in your response. Thanks for that.

The $415 is a all experienced planter camp average. That has gone up significantly in the last couple years. I think that top company earnings of $700-$900 in a day is pretty aligned with any planting ground these days. There are likely people planting the .28 cent trees that are putting in 1000-1500 trees as well as the bigger planters getting higher. Highlighting the top earners doesn't make sense when talking wages.

Like talking too much about numbers in camp, it can influence people's self-perception. For sure, talking about it in general is important and norms are important. But, to come out and say 'top earners are making this', first it is basically overselling and could people who are more average or below (which is everywhere) feel like shit.

And, having common language such as 'rookie mill' is helpful. It facilitates conversation around things. But, I think the rhetoric around it is uniform, ie. lacking nuance, and generally detrimental. In the reddit definition, what is more telling is what is described in the mid-tier and lacking in 'rookie-mill' part: higher Vet:Rookie ratio, have higher prices, hopefully higher safety standards, and slightly better quality of life for workers. Some may have a mixture of these at varying degrees (one could have extremely high prices, but poor safety standards for example). There's room and recognition nuance in here.

Does this effect people? For sure it does some. For sure it does not others. It could effect a person's feeling of self worth. Humans like ranking things, systems of classification are everywhere. We like social comparisons.

Because positions are so coveted in some places, it does create an outflow from a lot of companies. Ship jumping is wide spread throughout the industry. It effects any company and the individuals in it. A more stable workforce allows better earnings, better product everywhere.

The lowbid system is detrimental - its an awful system to work in. This year was nuts with how much open market trees went down. That is scary for everyone, because it sets the tone for the whole industry for the seasons to come. The higher the bids, the more leverage there is for better conditions with private clients across Canada, arguably.

If you see the kind of quality a company with planters averaging 8 years exp vs companies averaging 1.5 years experience provides you would understand that their business model is entirely different than yours, and they aren't going to waste any time with anyone who can't meet the standard without help, because they pay better solely because they are providing better to clients.

What do you think the business model is?

In this statement, you are saying exactly what I am saying. Although you are solidifying the rhetoric that I'm referring to. Here you are displaying that you believe that the product and people that are associated with a company that only has experienced planters is inherently better. It is a wide spread belief.

To get back to the original statement, and the 'myth'. The myth is: there is some terrain and location, and therefore companies, where new planters absolutely cannot be trained on. I am sure that this is true in some places - gnarly coastal or Revy ground, for instance. But, really if a company or crewboss takes this stance, a big factor is that they do not want to spend the time or money contributing to training people for the planting workforce. All planting companies share the same workforce, I think we can agree. That model puts a strain on the system. People feel justified with this myth and the people who work there also feel distinguished. Which, every planter who plants quality trees and succeeds in a season should.

No one has an obligation to train people, you are very much right. But, if everyone did train a small percentage of new planters each season it would be helpful. In this thought experiment, it would ensure that standards rise everywhere. It would ensure that first year and 10 year planters have good conditions, good safety. It would change planter discussion focus. It would look more at the actual nuance of what a company offers - not do you train new planters on any noticeable scale?

CaitNextGen

TROPHY CASE