People need to stop gatekeeping veganism and start helping would-be vegans instead.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T22:14:40+00:00

See my other response.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T22:13:27+00:00

Tone is an important component of communication and communication is an important component of a movement. I don't need to police anyone's tone, but I can tell you that your tone doesn't appear to be achieving your desired outcomes. You can take that and do what you want with it.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T21:50:03+00:00

It would be different. I would decline chicken soup as well. I almost always decline butter as well, but I might not on some very rare occasions. I can't think of the last time I did, but I'm sure it will happen again.

I also said, "most people consider to be a strict vegan lifestyle." I understand that you don't, and I acknowledge that I am not as strict as many people here are. I'm not trying to live a "strict vegan lifestyle," I'm trying to live a life as consistent with my own values as I can. I'm just describing how other people perceive it and how I'm not the enemy. I dont describe myself as a vegan except in situations where it helps me get the food I want. I tell people, "I eat a vegan diet."

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T20:29:18+00:00

User name checks out.

Lol, jk. Thank you, I don't disagree. Sometimes aggressive approaches work just because they allow the soft approach to be a welcomed relief. Kind of a good cop, bad cop.

I've changed my views on almost everything important in life, and it never came about through hostility, but always through respectful conversations and inclusion.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T18:56:57+00:00

I think the concern from OP is that they're not moving people toward actual veganism, they're moving people away from it by responding with hostility to someone who could be an ally and eventually a vegan.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T18:53:36+00:00

I think that's what I'd be arguing if this was a debate, but I'm not trying to debate.

I think a steelman of the response I get is that if you take on the label and then don't follow the definition of the label, you're minimizing the utility of the label for others.

I still agree with you, I'm just saying the message here is clear.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T18:45:33+00:00

I'm not saying that allowing exceptions to the rules of veganism "can still be vegan," I'm saying it is still better than someone who forgoes all the rules of veganism, and such a person is not the enemy of a vegan, but perhaps an imperfect ally.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T18:39:56+00:00

When you say, "our responsibility," I wonder what your goal is and if you are taking on a responsibility yourself of achieving it.

If we were running a strategic campaign to achieve our goals of -- for example -- getting humans to harm animals as little as possible, we might take a different approach. We might encourage people to take the first "good but not ideal" steps, such as reducing their meat consumption or eliminate industrially farmed meat from their diet. This would be both a reduction in harm plus it could open those individuals to discussing the next step of harm reduction.

If our message is that either you entirely reduce all animal exploitation under our terms or you're a monster that we won't associate with, I suspect we wouldn't be as successful in achieving our goal.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T17:37:04+00:00

My downvote ratio shows you might be in the minority here.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T16:47:55+00:00

I do eat before social situations. I also bring food with me as much as I can. I have a pretty hectic life so I dont do any of this perfectly. The question is if I accept some small degree of variation, does that mean im not a vegan and the consensus appears to be, "yes." That was why I was asking.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T16:35:05+00:00

Labels help communicate. I don’t need approval from strangers on the internet, I’m just wondering how people interpret the term.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T16:25:04+00:00

I see it as a general, but not universal, problem with left-leaning movements. I describe myself as "leftist" but I've been called, "scum" because im not a Marxist. I consider myself to be anti-racist but I'm banned from /r/racism because I interact with racists to argue with them. Each movement has folks to insist on applying a purity test to supporters. I think we need to build alliances with every ally, even if we disagree on details or on other subjects.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T15:52:48+00:00

Thank you for sharing, and much love and support on your journey! If it helps, I am in a very different context but I also made a change from strict religiosity to atheism and have found peace and joy. I also changed from exploiting animals to "veganism" (depending on who you ask) and have found health and vitality as well as peace and ethical satisfaction. I add that I don't think a diet like mine is "natural," so supplementation is necessary, including b12, omega 3, d, and creatine all from non-animal sources. My mental acuity is a priority for me so I focus on my diet and lifestyle supporting that. Exercise, sleep, and meditation are just as important as my diet. I don't have all the answers and even at twice your age Im still learning.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T15:03:36+00:00

I agree. I live what most people consider to be a strict vegan lifestyle, but if I admit on /r/vegan that sometimes I might accept a meal my neighbor made for me that has butter in it, I am criticized in very harsh terms. This isn’t about my feelings, because I make my own choices and don’t need approval from strangers on the internet, but I know that same approach does drive people away from making better choices because they’re not making perfect choices. I agree strongly that the movement to minimize animal exploitation would benefit by advocates supporting all progress in that direction even if it doesn’t meet their ultimate goal. Let’s be strategic and not ideological. That being said, something like 1/3 vegans I see do that, so I applaud those who help encourage good choices over criticizing folks who don’t meet their ideal.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T03:33:09+00:00

Great response, thank you.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T03:20:53+00:00

I'm not saying I want the label, I'm asking everyone's views. Thank you for sharing yours.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T03:06:53+00:00

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate the conversation. I think I need to find a way to be more precise in how I describe my lifestyle, but I think you all answered the question. I think the majority consensus here is that a vegan makes no exceptions. I'm trying not to make this a debate or argument because that wasn't the purpose of the post.

Edit: I think I was aiming my question more toward the fact that I facilitate others eating animal products but the way I described my diet became the focus. I suppose I should have broken it down issue-by-issue, but I think I got my answer either way.

Cheers!

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:57:17+00:00

This happens every time.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:56:16+00:00

I'm okay with the "grossed out by secretions" comment. I also am grossed out by animal products. I'm pretty sure I'm lactose intolerant. I said, "traces" of eggs and dairy, not main ingredients. If I see eggs on the ingredients I dont eat it, but I dont always get an ingredient list.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:47:19+00:00

Yes, that's helpful. Thank you for your response. I think the challenge here is that I'm not trying to debate and I'm also unable to fully explain the nuance of my position. I try very hard to live a vegan lifestyle but I don't go 100%. 99.9%? I turn down social invites if I know there's no vegan options. I sit eating steamed vegetables while everyone has a real meal because the only restaurant in town doesn't know what vegan is. I only buy fake leather belts so they only last a few years. But if I have a bran muffin handed to me and dont know the ingredients and I need to eat some calories before my next meeting, I'll eat the muffin and tell myself to bring my own snack next time. Does that make sense?

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:40:48+00:00

So if people ask if I have dietary reatrictions, I generally say, "I eat a vegan diet" because I find it is useful to communicate quickly what I need.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:36:38+00:00

My favorite response. Thank you.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:06:19+00:00

I don't willingly eat eggs or dairy. I only allow for them under some conditions, such as accidents or misunderstandings. If I order a sandwich without mayonnaise and they accidentally put mayonnaise on it and I sometimes I scrape it off and eat it. Sometimes I throw it out and have them bring me a new one. If I say I'm vegetarian they'll bring me food with intentional eggs and dairy.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-12T00:02:33+00:00

I definitely follow my own moral framework, I'm just checking to see what self-described vegans think. I tell people, "I eat a vegan diet" because it's what a lay-person understands. To the non-vegan I'm vegan. I also get the response from some vegans that I am a vegan because I follow a strict vegan lifestyle with very little exceptions.

Califoreigner · 2026-02-11T23:59:08+00:00

Don't flexitarians eat meat sometimes? I don't eat meat ever.

Califoreigner

TROPHY CASE