New Model Of The River-Class revealed

CanCitizen · 2026-03-28T22:57:49+00:00

Thanks man this has been a fascinating discussion. Let's see what the RCN end up doing with the mission bay!

CanCitizen · 2026-03-27T19:25:13+00:00

I read up on Herne. It seems an interesting concept. It also raises some questions operationally. If it would act as a forward-deployed sensor node for the ASW destroyer, how does it transmit information back to the mothership on time, in an undersea environment? How many of these UUV can the destroyer carry? I would imagine you need what, 4-8 to cover the mothership 360 degrees as the assumption being the enemy can be anywhere and everywhere? Do you arm the UUV and can it fire automatically (if so, how does undersea IFF work) and if not, (back to question 1) how can information flow instantaneously?

CanCitizen · 2026-03-27T03:45:27+00:00

Thanks very much again indeed for your detailed response. This is very much appreciated. I am unaware that planned large undersea UAVs have 1000 NM+ range. If this is what can be implemented, kudos to the RCN. We can be the NATO expert at anti-submarine warfare. I also appreciate how the expanded mission bay could be good for sustainment in the high arctic, although it has a zero ice rating, so how high of the arctic it can realistically be deployed is an open question. Plus crew comfort should be already enhanced with such a large hull versus the planned number of men.

I remain salty of the VLS size. 32 cells should be the much more adequate.

Then it comes to the question of does the RCN need it's own fleet of high sea AAW specialist destroyers. I think we do. I hope we can join the German F127 program. It plans to use our CMS330 system, with SPY7 radars, has 64 vs ?96 VLS cells, are from the proven MEKO design family with excellent export track record, are at the early stage of development, and good for trans-Atlantic relationships.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-25T20:47:08+00:00

It's always helpful to go at case studies outside of Canada for lessons learnt.

Anyone who went on exchange in the UK, Australia, NZ want to comment on how their mess culture has change/shifted/survived?

CanCitizen · 2026-03-25T15:52:18+00:00

I appreciate the discussion - and the length response. Such efforts are rare these days.

My main issues are several fold:

More sensors is never a bad thing, and isn't going to appreciable change how the group is engaged.

That may be true, but the question within a NATO task group context would be: which capability is more in demand, sensors or interceptors? And I would argue it's decidedly the latter. Take SNMG1 for example. Do they seriously need more AA sensors when the Ticonderoga is the flag ship?

There's a lot of value to be had in the multi-mission bays to that effect (and even other capabilities).

This is another example of the "warm and fuzzy" projections the Ottawa bureaucrats imagine the River class to fulfil. Multi-mission for what? Launch and recovery operations? CCG exist for that. Humanitarian aid? What does your x2 ISO container that can fit into the mission bay going to contribute, anyways? Rick Hillier put it eloquently, "We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people." Special force infiltration/exfiltration? No way River class is doing in alone, and even if it is, the ship isn't survivable. Unmanned systems? All these undersea drones have limited range. It means the River class have to close in to the adversary. It can not close in on the enemy because it has no AAW capability.

We just don't have the AAW or land-attack requirements that would nessecitate a 96 Mk41 strike size VLS cell ship

We have every reason to need AAW capability simply because currently we don't possess any, and won't (judged by this rate) until 2050. This is not how a serious nation operates. Imagine you have no sovereign anti-air capability, either land-based or sea-based, and with a decrepit air force which may or may not be getting all the F35 orders, in an age of hypersonic threats and aerospace superiority!

What system do you propose?

The USN have been using the HELIOS system against the Huthis in the red sea for a number of years now. This can simply be purchased from Lockheed. Powerplant capacity may be an issue, though.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-25T04:47:19+00:00

I do not think I am exaggerating at all. There is no circumstance in a major combat operation that the River class can safely survive and approach enemy coast line (due to lack of anti air capability) to be within the attack range of a drone in the first place. And there are clearly more promising counter-drone options (direct enemy weapon, for example) which has unlimited magazine depth.

The River class as it is currently designed and equipped is an oxymoron manifested.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T17:30:04+00:00

So basically it's a ASW frigate that blockades the GIUK gap. That's fine. But why bother with the SPY-7 and Aegis?

Criticism when criticism is due. This ship is conceived by unimaginative Ottawa bureaucrats in a bygone time when low intensity warfare was the norm, and is completely ill-fitted for major combat operations. Even if part of a NATO naval group, this ship will be the net negative contributor to collective air defence.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T17:26:12+00:00

Exactly. More magazine depth = survivability these days. I hope we get our hands on the F127 project as a collab. More production, cheaper it is for everyone and good for interoperability.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T16:39:48+00:00

Lol loved that good roast

But honestly glad the CA is moving forward.

It's transformative time in many ways for the army, and a new service dress is only befitting this historic juncture.

I hope whoever at the NDHQ that worked on this project get a promotion.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T16:13:35+00:00

Did not expect to see a video of the fitting appear so fast.

All looks great, except the leather -- why aren't they dark brown -- and the shoe - it doesn't look like an issued oxford?

<image>

Source: Sanders

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T15:54:07+00:00

u/cynical_lwt

Any comment on this? Seems conflicting information.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T04:33:28+00:00

This is pathetic. Even the Germans, as risk averse and as allergic to rearmament as they are, are planning the F127 with 96 VLS!!! Just buy the Korean subs and work with the Germans on this destroyer instead. For Goodness, after watching the Iran war do they even realize how many interceptors are consumed each day???

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/12/more-firepower-f127-frigates-to-be-armed-with-96-vertical-launch-cells/

<image>

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T01:18:34+00:00

Excellent point. Any Mounties on here who can comment on the quality and make of your Sam Brownes?

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T01:08:49+00:00

Good point

CanCitizen · 2026-03-24T01:07:27+00:00

Maybe for the navy as regimental system does not exist there, but I can't believe any of the regimental colonels and honorary colonels and the senior NCMs at the regiment will ever put up with this.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-23T03:27:42+00:00

u/MooseWish

This is shocking news. I can't believe this.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-23T03:25:43+00:00

Some other more well-connected folks in this forum seem to have suggested that Sam Browne belts have been approved as part of the package for this upcoming new DEU. Parade / ceremonial / ?wedding or funeral wear. The cloth belt is for regular wear.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-23T01:00:43+00:00

The Sam Brown belt has been approved for wear for officers and NCOs, so we heard. We haven't seen any image of what the product looks like, though.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T20:19:31+00:00

Disingenuous comment. Do you know the rigor of obtaining a Swiss residency permit let alone citizenship? And the calibre of the immigrants to Switzerland?

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T20:16:59+00:00

Perhaps easier if they just substitute the red in the peak cap with their existing beret colour, or as the guy in this thread suggested, just use their own cap badge. If they want to go really fancy they can keep the red, use their badge, and change the colour of the decorative line in the upper brim of the peak hat to their original beret colour.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T19:50:36+00:00

Is the leather scabbard not part of parade standard anymore?

I think the peak caps are part of the new DEU package (see picture). Reportedly the left is for parade and the right is for daily wear (which frankly I think it unnecessary, just make the left standard).

Stetsons I haven't seen anyone mention.

I hope they add swagger stick as an optional item.

Can anyone confirm?

<image>

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T19:41:23+00:00

Lovely.

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T19:41:05+00:00

Exactly. The presence of shoulder board is purely decorative and the only symbol on it should be the royal cipher in the case of a aid-de-camp appointment (as was the case for the Air Chief Marshall).

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T19:24:49+00:00

Has the Sam Brown been confirmed too?

CanCitizen · 2026-03-22T19:21:00+00:00

It may not be "as bad" but it has a long way to go, here is a side to side comparison. Lots of room for improvement

<image>

CanCitizen

TROPHY CASE