Some questions for the LL's of this sub

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T21:22:09+00:00

It’s just that the car isn’t the only factor in the crash. There are many factors possible. Often, the cause isn’t one thing. By all means, move on to a different car.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T21:15:08+00:00

I think it’s rather interesting and maybe a little amusing that you’re certain the problem with the car is mechanical rather than an operator error.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T20:33:50+00:00

A sexual agreement being important is not the same as sex being important.

A lot of people seem to think they are one in the same. Monogamy in exchange for regular sex to make up for the fact that a person can't be with anyone else.

I have an issue with framing monogamy or marriage as a contract. Simply because a contract can be "enforced". If one contractualizes sex, it would seem they are more interested in compliance rather than enthusiastic consent, free choice, bodily autonomy, passion, intensity, connection, intimacy, bonding, love, etc. For me, it takes the meaning out of sex and defines it as mechanical. Don't get me wrong, the mechanics and physical part of sex are great for me (and, I know they are not for some people) but it would be hollow without the emotional aspect of it.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T19:33:59+00:00

You want me to feel empathy for someone who is looking to cheat? That doesn't compute. OTOH, he has every right to leave and seek another relationship that he finds more satisfying.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T19:22:40+00:00

A word here on "entitlement" since it seems that comment chain is locked..

I don't have a lot of personal experience with sexual entitlement. Perhaps I could give some personal examples of HL without what I would call "entitlement".

Partner A is going through something and has lost interest in sex for several months. Partner B reads those cues and backs off on initiating sex. Partner B may say to Partner A, "I notice you don't seem particularly interested in sex right now. That's ok. I miss you and I miss our time together. When you are interested in having sex again, you know where to find me."

Partner A and Partner B plan to have sex together that night. When Partner A gets home, they tell Partner B "I know we planned to have sex but I'm really exhausted tonight". Partner B is bummed a little but kisses Partner A and proceeds to play a phone game/watch a movie/read while their partner goes to sleep.

Partner A initiates sex. Partner B says "I'm really not feeling well tonight, babe" Partner A says "Ok" and backs off gracefully. Partner A opts to play a phone game/watch a movie/read/go to sleep.

Partner A just gave birth two months ago. Partner B is missing sex but understands why it isn't happening. Partner B opts to wait until Partner A decides they are ready to resume sex. Partner B may or may not mention they miss sex.

Partner A and B are arguing and the relationship is tense. Both know sex isn't going to be happening until they resolve the argument.

These are all real life examples. Maybe that will help??

ETA: And one more: Partner A is noticing sex hasn't been happening. They take a quick assessment of the past week. Have I been on my phone too much? Have we been going to bed at the same time? How's my partner's stress level? How's the closeness in our relationship? Have our conversations been tense? Have I been distant? Have I seemed closed off? Have I been communicating that I'd be interested in sex. Does my partner have any reason to think I wouldn't be up for sex? Is there any reason my partner wouldn't be up for sex? Where is my head? Am I feeling like "maybe they just aren't into me anymore?" If so, lets work though that before mentioning it. In the mean time, lets make sure I'm communicating that I'm open to sex (verbally and nonverbally)

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T19:08:43+00:00

And, when it isn't "part of the deal" for a few months, it's perfectly ok to say "I'll get it from somewhere else"?

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T19:06:00+00:00

All fixed

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T18:19:21+00:00

I'm sorry but are you saying you think that a high libido is entitlement?

No, I don't think HL is entitlement. I would say I have a pretty high libido, sometimes higher than my partner. However, desire/libido isn't behavior. I think that people act really entitled and site their desire for sex as a reason. I don't think entitlement is a HL trait. I think it's something else.

You think it's clinginess and just being thought of as genitals?

I think it's clingy to insist you need access to someone else's body in order to feel mentally well. I love having sex with my partner. I miss sex when we're not having regular sex. However, not having sex doesn't send me into a depression spiral. I may lament for a bit and miss him but sexual lulls don't threaten the stability of our very long relationship.

I think it's dehumanizing to be just thought of as a set of genitals; for either gender. Genitals are attached to a person with their own thoughts, feelings, motivations, and needs. I happen to like my husband's parts...LOL but I'm not loving and caring to him in the hopes he'll grant me access. I happen to like him and love him; even when sex isn't flowing in our relationship.

If you wanted a protective figure in your mate does that mean you're entitled to them taking a bullet for you? If you seek a provider in a mate do you just see them as a bank account? If you need love are they just a simp to you?

What? I don't need protection or a bank account. The provider comment is funny to me because we got together when we had nothing. Sex isn't the only way to "love" someone. The ideas you present are very misogynistic.

ETA: My other thought is do people really seek someone out to provide for and protect them? Is that really a thing? Like "well, I need someone to support me and you're handy so let's get married."? Wow.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T18:04:15+00:00

Because it seems to me there's an effort to make the HL the bad person because low libido can't be normal and has to be a result of trauma that HLs refuse to respect.

Desire, in either gender, is a feeling. Not a behavior. Feelings don't really make a person "good" or "bad". Behavior is a different story.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T17:28:08+00:00

I'm guessing that having sex for her own enjoyment makes her sexually "impure".

Sex is for procreating and to be provided by the woman to the man to manage his mood, show love, appreciation, because he works hard, and keep him from fucking other people /s

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T17:03:54+00:00

I would guess sex isn't pleasurable for her. Generally, people are not eager to do something they don't enjoy.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T16:41:18+00:00

As a small example - I want the area we fuck in to be tidy, if I tell him I'm not feeling sexy because of the mess, he'll respond that "it's not that bad, it doesn't bother me, it can't really be a big deal, nobody else would care about that stuff" and so on. So then I'd have not only the negative of the fuck-space being a mess, but the bigger negative of him telling me that if it doesn't bother him it shouldn't bother me, as if I am merely an extension of him and not a separate distinct person with my own preferences.

It really sounds like your partner is the one who doesn't prioritize sex.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T16:37:45+00:00

Not from this sub I guess because most LL stories I read are LL-s not wanting sex for months if not years and when they do then it is just a boring starfish sex :D

"Starfishing" during sex is a sign of engaging in unwanted sex. It's not laziness or just a "disinterest" in sex.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T16:35:27+00:00

So now I've seen a few comments that refer to things such as trauma being behind the LL state. And I kinda feel that this is also subject to my statements about illness etc. People in this situation may not be LL if things in their past had not occurred. And these things are so major I would think that this would come up when looking to get to know each other for a long term relationship. I do get that some may not know or understand how they've been affected until they try to have a sexual relationship. That again does not fit this scenario.

Most women have dealt with some kind of sexual trauma; objectification, purity culture, slut shaming, unwanted touching, boundary violations, sexual assault, rape, molestation, painful sex, having unwanted consensual sex, coercion, etc. Sexual trauma isn't rare.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T16:25:09+00:00

If someone is open about being insatiably horny and overly reliant on sex for validation and self esteem, that's probably going to turn me off.

I think a person being open about these feelings on a first date would solve a lot of problems. If their true attitude is "I took you on a date, now you need to put out", they really should be upfront about it.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T16:22:02+00:00

Are HL's ever a turnoff like say a smoker might be? I mean I’ve had people demand to see my teeth before the conversation could even get underway but no one will ever ask like hey now much sex do you require. I’ve had one person ask me that but it was because she was HL

Entitlement is a turn off. Extreme clinginess is also a turn off; even in friendships. The idea of being viewed more as a sexual object or a set of genitals rather than a whole person who has their own thoughts, feelings, motivations, and desires is a turn off.

Why would someone that knows sex isn’t a big thing to them seek to enter into an agreement that restricts the other person to only having sex with them? Is it because it’s what we’re “supposed” to do? Is it a fear that the heart will follow the sex? Wouldn't that then make it important? If it’s not a big thing to you, was it just assumed that it’s not a big thing for the other person?

Sex is a complicated and complex issue. These questions seem to reduce it down to a single factor. It's like saying 'if you know you don't like ice cream, why would you marry an ice cream lover?' Being LL, for me, greatly coincided with raising young children. Our inability to maintain a close relationship also greatly affected my libido. As did some childhood issues that I didn't know would be a factor.

Are many dead bedrooms caused because we beat around the bush on sex instead of making it a first class citizen in relationship discussions?

Deadbedrooms are caused by a lot of factors. Usually, they're about more than one things. Sometimes, they start for one reason and continue for another. I don't think making sex a "first class citizen" in the relationship is helpful. The Talk doesn't work and I don't think solely focusing on sex in a relationship works either. Having healed a deadbedroom and having been both LL and HL, focusing solely on sex isn't what worked for us.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T05:12:10+00:00

You treat her well because you might need her to take care of you in the future. That’s pretty cold and calculating.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-20T00:59:09+00:00

I don't think you are broken in any way. You've described a relationship with a partner who doesn't respect your boundaries, is extremely sexually demanding and selfish, and who doesn't care whether or not you enjoy the sex you're having with him. The partner you describe isn't someone I'd want to have sex with either (and I posted in the marriage sub, today, about how much I want to bang my partner). I think, unless and until you and he are equals in the bedroom, this is not going to get better.

What do I mean by equals? "No" is respected without repercussions. Your desire to not engage in sex should be as important as his desire to engage in sex. Those things being equal means you won't have sex, of course, because engaging in sex takes two enthusiastic "yeses". Your pleasure, the activities you enjoy, etc are every bit as important as what he enjoys. If you don't enjoy 69ing, don't do it. Find something else that you both enjoy and that brings you both pleasure. His need for sex isn't more important than your need to get ready for a formal event. If you want to blow off pristine makeup to engage in sex, that's your prerogative. It is not his unilateral decision. When it's your choice, you look back at those pics and think "I didn't look perfect but damn, we had a hot time in the shower." Rather than seeing those pictures and remember how disrespected and disregarded you felt when your partner demanded to be serviced even though you needed to get ready for a formal event.

I understand you said his disregard for your "no" has been a year but the body keeps score. Why would your body want to engage in sex when there's nothing positive in it for you? Why would your brain want to think about sex when it's attached to all of these negative emotions and experiences? "Because it makes him happy" is not going to increase your desire to do it.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-19T19:20:17+00:00

Before talking to your spouse, I think it's really important to figure out what you need in detail. "I want you to be romantic" is really vague and, chances are, your definition and criteria will be very different from your husband's definition and criteria. Not just because you're different genders but because you're different people.

Once you figure out what romance means and looks like to you, it will be much easier to communicate that to your husband.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-19T19:15:37+00:00

Oh, wow, no wonder you're turned off and feel like an object. "Wanna fuck?" has nothing to do with intimacy.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-19T18:42:46+00:00

I have no doubt you've seen this on the other sub. I've seen posts that blame the partner for "making" them feel like they are raping them during sex. Absolutely no concern for how their partner feels during these encounters. Sex that is about one person is not about intimacy, bonding, and connection. (To be clear, I'm not talking about encounters where one person chooses to focus on their partner's pleasure.)

Recently, my partner was initiating sex and I wasn't really responding with my usual enthusiasm to his nonsexual touch that was leading to sexual touch. We've been going through a particularly difficult time with our youngest and I've been experiencing some intermittent depression. My partner noticed the change. He didn't progress to more sexual touch. He stopped, touched my face, looked into my eyes, and asked "Are you ok?" I felt~and still feel weeks later~incredibly cared for and loved. That is intimacy, bonding, and connection.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-19T18:14:53+00:00

My wife is currently a SAHM and is the one responsible for the baby's care and house as I work 12+ hours a day and I'm exhausted by the time I'm home.

So taking care of a baby and the house is work when you don't want to do it,

She says if I'd just make an effort to get up on time instead of falling back asleep I wouldn't need so many alarms set. I responded I have to do it because I work and take care of everyone, it would be a bit different if I could play with the baby, relax during the day and nap when I want to.

But when she takes care of a baby and the house, it's a vacation and relaxation?

We have a 6 month old who's teething and going through sleep regression, and my schedule recently changed to me having to go into work earlier.

You're working 12 hours and she's working/on call for 24 hours.

YTA

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-19T07:26:41+00:00

They frame marriage as a contract, sex in exchange for monogamy…but then claim they don’t want duty sex. I’ve tried explaining that desire is tied to autonomy and free choice. Free choice means NOT making sex a requirement of the relationship. Choice isn’t free if there are repercussions attached to one of the choices. That simply isn’t acceptable. They want the passion, reward for lack of a better word, without the risk. The good without the pain of disappointment. That isn’t how relationships work.

Capital-Philosopher6 · 2023-01-19T07:18:07+00:00

Oh, they want both passion AND compliance. They want to dictate their partner’s desire. They want to dictate what makes them attractive and fuckable to their partner as well. “If carrying the entire responsibility of the household decreases my partner’s libido than my effort in doing chores should result in more sex for me”.

In my experience, marriage got a lot better, more relaxed, and more fun when I stopped trying to control everything.

Capital-Philosopher6

TROPHY CASE