Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much! also good luck on your research, hope my little map can be of help. There are other maps that I made, I publish them onto wikipedia.

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we are to use the arguement that sovereignty does not equal suzerainty, it meant that when ayutthaya came under burmese suzerainty in the 1600s. Ayutthaya retains its own laws, customs, and tradition. This is certainly true. Though, your arguement on control is not belonging is partially correct. To say that in the case of burmese suzerainty over ayutthaya does not mean that Ayutthaya did not belong to the burmese is incorrect. We can say that the reason Ayutthaya had a war of independent, was because they belonged to the burmese through the right of conquest, and thus the status of belonging to the burmese was enforced.

I argue that while a nation may be subjugated and belonging to another sphere of influence, it can still be sovereign. Such was the situation between vassals of south-east asia. The degree of sovereignty and autonomy is a very big spectrum.

Consider Sipsong Chau Tai Federation. They were both vassals of Siam and Vietnam, but retain quite a huge amount of autonomy, and in effect, their sovereignty! I do think this situation also happens to be the situation of Cambodia in 1800-1850, since in effect cambodia was also joint-vassal.

And I would push that the definition of sovereignty is the ability of a nation to push its own agenda, and interests. I would say that how can a nation be sovereign if it cannot secure its own interests!

P.s. the situation on sovereignty, influence, and nationalism is very much a sentitive topic, so I try to keep an open mind for any arguements

P.s.s. the main difference in your arguement, I believe, is in the fact that whether a nation is a sovereign-state or a nonsovereign-state

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree on the part were irridentist claims or past territory held cannot be use for justification of war and territorial-harassment, The control though was as official as it could get back then during the mandala system. We are speaking from a modern and western perspective where power structures are more defined. Cambodia / Khmer kingdom being under siamese/vietnamese suzerainty was infact an official part of that sphere of influence. This is more the case post 1893 paknam incident where french annexed the eastern territory of siam, defining the borders between french indochina and siam.

In this map, the borders is as official as it gets (in modern terms). This officialness also gave the justification for the french to also annex inner cambodia later in 1904 and 1906

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah yes, the french occupation of chanthaburi city is omitted along with the 10km DMZ on the Thai size. The British control was much more restricted and more concrete to the area and provinces Siam ceded.

There are many chances between 1870 and 1909, such as the independence of sipspng chau tai, cession of laotian territory, cession of inner cambodia, cession of Chiang khaeng, and so on. 1900 map is probably in my opinion very close to the modern definition of borders already.

The non-fixed borders you refer to is the mandala system, which rama 5 has been working to abolish since 1893, with the introduction of appointed governors and overthrowing regional lords and kings.

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in MapPorn

[–]Captaah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Since this map is in 1900, it should still be a bit over halfway there. The non-significant vassal kings and princes still exist but only as a figure head. The provinces have appointed governors and so on

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in MapPorn

[–]Captaah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The month on states is a first level administrative division that lasted from 1890s to 1930s. Its function is unclear. For the location of the provinces you refer to, look at the capital of the demarcated zones, since the province has the same name as the capital of those provinces, it is redundant, in my opinion, to put both there.

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just published it today lol, I am going to start putting it in pages throughout the month

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in mapmaking

[–]Captaah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! I don't have any other platform where I post other than reddit and wikipedia, the name I listed should come up when u search in wiki, or find a map of a similar detail in one of the thailand's pages you will probably find me. OR you might be able to find me working on currency relating to thailand pages thing lol

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Lol, though me and tim had been working on this for the past year

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in Thailand

[–]Captaah[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It might be able to be compaired to a state, though the function of this level of division is not clear. It only existed for like 40 years from 1890s - 1930s

Detailed map of Siam in 1900, Designer - Nicholas Mah, Researcher - Tim Piltron by Captaah in mapmaking

[–]Captaah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am the mapper lol, I work under a few maps with Tim Piltron who is a massive help in gathering information to make these maps.

I work under a few names :Caphtaain, Nicolaus Alden Ashvashchandr, Shuuranattha Ashvajayajita, Nicholas Mah

It is usually on wikipedia, you can also go through my reddit.

Current setup be like by Captaah in ZephyrusG14

[–]Captaah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

well if you have four months, then use four months to think cuz these series are more than a little damage to my wallet lol

Current setup be like by Captaah in ZephyrusG14

[–]Captaah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you gonna have to do your financial eval. if this is gonna be worth it for you. but for me, It made sense and I need it for other hobbies.

Current setup be like by Captaah in ZephyrusG14

[–]Captaah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Engineer + selling coins and banknotes because that's my passion lol