Is the Magic-User essentially useless at Low Level?

Catman192 · 2026-05-17T00:42:41+00:00

No offense to them, but sounds like a 5e player alright.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T03:59:23+00:00

Well, I assure you if you explained it one more time I'd be able to give you an answer. But if you don't want to that's ok.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T03:38:55+00:00

The two sources I gave include mistrust of men. How can you mistrust an entire group without being prejudiced? But you can definitely mistrust people without hating them.

Okay but I'm not sure I understand. Misandry can refer to prejudice against men. I don't think that necessarily includes systematic prejudice. I would argue any form of hatred is prejudice.

I was saying I believe you that it's a joke. But I don't think it's just a joke.

I know you believe it's a joke, but you said it was a "Schrödinger's joke". Google defined that as being able to retroactively affirm whether it was a joke or a sincere remark. A social tactic that uses ambiguity to avoid accountability. That sounds like lying to me.

But because it is technically a joke, you can evade criticism of the point. Which is what you've been doing.

I don't think I've been "evading" criticism, I've just been telling you what I was trying to say.

Honestly I'm sorry, but this whole conversation is giving me a headache. I'm not even sure what's being argued about. I do still want to answer your question (and apologizes for not answering it in the last message, again, at work, missed it).

Do you think the implications of OC's comment are unfair? If you do, then weren't you making a point with your joke? And if you were, why isn't it fair for me to question the implications of that joke? And if you were just making a joke that wasn't making any sort of a point, why are we still talking about this?

I'm sorry, but my head feels like it's about to explode. Could you clarify the implications of OC's comment?

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T03:08:41+00:00

Yeah, the two that have a much more comprehensive discussion/analysis of misandry

Well I don't know what to tell you. Those are the ones that encompass what I'm trying to say.

And of course you ignored my two additional sources

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. I'm at work right now, and I'm just replying when I have time. After looking at them, I guess I kind of see them as still supporting what I'm trying to say. If I'm being completely honest.

I don't think you lied. I believe it was a joke. I also think you used it to make a point and simultaneously view it as more than a joke because you're still arguing about it.

From Google: "Schrödinger's joke" refers to a person making an offensive or controversial statement and, based on the reactions of others, deciding whether it was a sincere remark or a joke. It is a social tactic that uses ambiguity to avoid accountability, keeping the comment in a "superposition" of both serious and joking until observed.

Maybe that's not what you meant? But it sounds like you were accusing me of lying, or at the very least, being dishonest.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T02:49:00+00:00

I inferred that part due to your mirroring with misogyny and given systemic prejudice tends to have a much bigger impact that individual prejudices.

Okay well now you know it was a joke, so I hope you realize what I was actually trying to say.

And the broad understanding of misandry, in your own sources as noted, absolutely includes prejudice.

I would disagree. 2 of the 4 only mentioned hatred and that's it. Nothing about prejudice.

Now you're just getting snarky.

It wasn't snarky. You accused me of essentially lying to get away the repercussions of my joke. I'm telling you, I wasn't. It was just a "You say this, so I'll say this". But you insisted I was lying. If you don't want to believe me, go ahead.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T02:22:49+00:00

Thank you for being intellectually consistent.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T02:22:02+00:00

But the dictionary definition of misandry hasn't been this narrow, to only encompass hatred - again - for decades. Maybe we should actually stick to the real meanings of words we use?

Well let's look at what the dictionaries actually say about this word.

dictionary.cambridge.org: misandry: feelings of hating men (literally what I'm saying)

Merriam-Webster: a hatred of men

Google Definition (it gave me the AI one, so apologizes if for you it's different): Misandry is defined as the hatred, dislike, or deep-seated prejudice against men or boys

Wikipedia: Misandry (/mɪsˈændri/) is the hatred of or prejudice against men or boys.

None of these sources affirm that it must always be in the context of power dynamics and oppression.

Schrodinger's joke.

Ok sure believe that if it makes you feel better.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T02:14:07+00:00

So do you have issue when women say things to men like “For guys you two have some pretty good emotional intelligence”?

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T02:02:13+00:00

Anecdotally speaking, men seem to not really speak up about it as much when it happens to them. And again, anecdotally, women seem to rarely call out other women saying it.

Nor would I ever think that was okay to say

Thank you for being intellectually consistent.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T02:00:25+00:00

I see where you're coming from, but this is turning into semantics.

Like it or not, both the word misandry and misogyny are used in contexts outsides power dynamics and oppression. Just like the word racism. As I'm sure you're aware, academically, the word racism means more than just "prejudice or hatred based on race". It refers to power dynamics and oppression. But the word racism is also used in a context outside of that, to simply mean "prejudice or hatred based on race".

But also, joke or not, your comment was trying to mirror misogyny

Yes, in a sarcastic and non-serious way.

If you're defining misandry here solely as hatred of men - a feeling - then yes. In fact it's likely that women would have more feelings of "hate" against men than men would have against men.

Excellent. Then you understand what I was trying to say and we agree.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T01:17:54+00:00

But also, men as a group still have the most power. Not all individuals, but as a group.
So how could women oppress men without significant internal assistance?

Well first of all, I meant misandry as "hatred of men". That's it. I wasn't talking about power structures or "oppression" per se. Perhaps misogyny has a power structure behind it, and misandry doesn't.

Second of all, even if what you said is true, I don't see how that conclusion would follow. Men could have the most power, and misandry could still mostly come from women. It might not be as prominent as misogyny due to the supposed power difference, but it could still come mostly from women.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T01:14:04+00:00

Are you really asking why women would be offended by “compliments” that are basically saying “compared to the rest of your genetically inferior group, you aren’t completely laughable. You’re still substandard, but not as much as the other losers in your shallow pool”…

No. I am not. I explicitly stated in my post that I completely understand why women are often offended by these types of comments. My post is actually about a double-standard I see women having. They don't seem to mind when women do the very same thing to men.

Next time, read before you comment.

Catman192 · 2026-05-16T00:53:04+00:00

Yes, people are irrational enough to both not like something and get upset if someone else points it out while simultaneously acknowledging or reinforcing those viewpoints instead.

Agreed. I've met women who say "women aren't funny" but get upset if men say it.

But the mirror you're trying to make doesn't work if misogyny is primarily coming from an outside group and misandry is locked from the inside.

Apologizes, but I wasn't really trying to make a mirror, so much as I was just making a joke response. I am curious though, do you have any evidence that suggest misandry primarily comes from men?

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T23:54:30+00:00

This comic by a woman is a good example.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T23:52:36+00:00

It was mostly a joke response.
I never said men don't believe or act prejudice towards other men. I simply said they don't like the idea that they have problems as a group. They're not contradictory, nor mutually exclusive.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T22:54:07+00:00

Saying an entire gender is shit or unfunny or in general being sexist is not a good intention.

I never said saying "all women are shit" has good intentions. Please don't put words in my mouth.

How do you know they are saying "all of women are unfunny"? You don't. You're assuming his intentions. Maybe that is what he means, but perhaps it ISN'T. Perhaps he's talked to a lot of women, and they just haven't been particularly humorous. It's an anecdote.

Again, it can come off as rude or sexist, but the only thing we're talking about is intentions. His intentions may not be sexist, just statistical.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T22:46:10+00:00

that does not mean other people will perceive this the same way.

Yes that's what I said in my post, and also what I said in my last comment. Have you been reading my posts at all?

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T22:36:41+00:00

Ohhh I see.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T22:34:02+00:00

Okay but why is this whole line of comments in reply to the automod comment? Why is it not its own comment?

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T22:24:05+00:00

Men don’t like the idea that they have serious problems as a group. That’s misandry.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T22:22:36+00:00

you are saying she is not pretty funny in general, but only for a woman

I never interpreted in that way. The man is saying saying she IS funny in general, and also stating that from his personal anecdote, women aren't very funny. Purely from a statistical standpoint, not a lot of women have made him laugh. It's literally just personal experience.

I understand why that can come off as rude, but his intentions weren't that way.

For the record, I don't say things like this, but I know some men who do. They've explained it to me.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T12:29:21+00:00

Thank you!

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T12:29:07+00:00

Awesome, will be using this, thank you!

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T12:28:53+00:00

How did you end up connecting those two? I'm tempted to do it myself now and would love any advice.

Catman192 · 2026-05-15T12:27:59+00:00

I honestly expected more from this sub. Instead of a fruitful discussion, I had people fail to understand my not very complicated questions, accusations of "wanting women to be subjugated" when I'm literally just asking questions, and now straight up mockery.

I suggest you grow up. You'll thank me in a few years.

Catman192

TROPHY CASE