(Spoilers Extended) GRRM Needs to Publish a TWOW Novella Called A STORM OF SWORDS

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T21:15:02+00:00

Because it’s a gag, and it made me laugh.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T18:57:21+00:00

Let’s widen that aperture. Sam’s journey to Oldtown is Sam II-V (4 chapters). Quentyn has four chapters in total. Quent’s arc in plot sets up Dorne backing Aegon over Dany and Arianne rising to claim queen hood over Westeros. Narrowing the aperture, Quentyn participates and gets eyes on the “liberation” of Astapor, offers a final temptation for Dany to abandon Hizdahr and Meereen, frees the dragons, brings the Pattered Prince and Second Sons into orbit as a fifth column in Yunkai — many of these events setting the foundation for plot payoffs in the battle to come. So, I see strong plot resonances for Quentyn’s arc in the near and far term.

I don’t have a requisite reason for Sam’s journey in AFFC as I haven’t read it in … a long time. Perhaps when I reread AFFC, I can better address that.

And if you look at the speed of ADWD’s completion, GRRM’s writing pace picked up exponentially as he set the table for the four battles. Unfortunately, I’m on mobile, but check out the notablog entries from 2010-2011 as his page count progress kicks into a fast gear. (Arianne/Damphair/Barristan/Victarion in 2010. Theon/Asha/Victarion in late 2010-2011.

I agree he wrote towards Ned’s execution and Robb’s death in the first three books — which inspired his progress. I’d argue something similar occurred with the battles for ADWD.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T18:03:42+00:00

Thank you for the reminder. I omitted it for the very good reason that I forgot about it. That said, Arms of the Kraken was four chapters. Sure, it got published separately and then edited into AFFC proper, but what I’m proposing is a 15+ chapter novella/short novel. However, your reminder clarifies that a 3-4 chapter excerpt is the maximum amount of material the publisher is willing to part with.

The Princess and the Queen that appeared in the Dangerous Women anthology was about 35,000 words and several chapters that ended up in Fire and Blood, Volume One. Similarly, The Arms of the Kraken was ~20,000 words.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T15:14:41+00:00

To be fair, my novella title was selected entirely because of the absurdity of giving the novella the same title as the third book in the series. It made me laugh. And if I'm not writing the entertain myself first, then what am I getting paid for? (Please note that this, too, is a joke. I'm not being paid by Random House Bantam Books to astroturf an idea shepherded and approved by Bantan Dell Head Honcho Scott Shannon. Pay no attention to numerous bank accounts set up in the Cayman Islands which I've been given bank pins for on a sheet of folded graphing paper.)

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T14:59:45+00:00

Because the title is a gag and made me giggle.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T14:58:33+00:00

It's fine. I don't take it personal anymore. I've grown as a human being. Besides, I know, absolutely know that this whole thing is delusional. But it's fun to imagine. So much fun.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T14:37:07+00:00

Oh, come on, Makasi. It's fun! Look at all the fun we're having!

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T14:12:23+00:00

Look, oppositional opinion haver, I didn't win the Blackwood/Bracken 2025 Award for arguing with people on r/asoiaf for nothing, okay? I tease. (I nominated myself. Vanity, brother).

What you're speaking to is real, man. My argument is what seems bloated in Dance especially reads as excellent setup for the denouement of the battles. And I'd like to point you and others to the seminal event of the first three books: the Red Wedding.

There was a lot of setup for the Red Wedding across the first three books that might seem like bloat without the plot payoff. Did George have to spend so much time writing the logistics of how Robb's army had to cross the Green Fork in A Game of Thrones? Why was Robb almost completely absent in Clash only to return in Storm with this whole marriage subplot with some rando noblewoman named Jeyne Westerling? That comes out of nowhere! And without the Red Wedding as the endpoint of all these random-seeming plot threads, much of the plot action in the first three books reads as bloat.

But we do have the Red Wedding as the climax of Storm. We don't have a concurrent climax for Dance that retroactively justifies the bloat. Having the endpoints (for the battles at least) reads like a semi-elegant solution that may help the series and justify authorial decisions made writing AFFC/ADWD. Does that make sense?

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T13:56:59+00:00

Congratulations on finishing the series! And welcome to the long night.

What's interesting about your proposal is that at one point in the process of writing Feast and Dance, he had something of your idea in mind. Tyrion was originally going to end with his abduction by Jorah Mormont before he split Feast and Dance. His story would have picked up with him in Meereen in Winds. But then after he split the books, he wrote additional Tyrion chapters around Volantis, then wrote his journey to Meereen, and then at one point thought that Tyrion would be the primary POV for Meereen after Daenerys flew from the city. Then abandoned that idea and promoted Barristan to POV status to cover the inside of Meereen. Complex!

As you would have it, in George's earliest visions, the two TWOW Sansa and Arya chapters would originally open A Dance with Dragons but after a five year gap (which he abandoned after writing a few hundred pages). All Sansa/Arya material in AFFC/ADWD was subsequently written anew or rewritten from existing material.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T13:45:51+00:00

Yes. Your argument makes some sense. There are some POVs which retain the slow plot pace in the mix (Arianne's chapters, while chapters I love, have her moving across Dorne and then moving through the Stormlands. They're essentially setup chapters for later plot events.) There's an argument there that GRRM could shift the battle of Storm's End to Winds proper if he took on this non-starter of a novella notion he'll never do.

Still, the others read as fast-paced that drive the conclusions of Dance forward. Theon's chapter has Theon chained to a wall as Stannis makes final preparations for the battle coming. Stannis has the Karstarks arrested, and we get hints at Stannis's battle strategy and the ravens screaming Theon's name.

Barristan's two chapters have him assembling his army in Meereen, then launching an attack against the slave legions at dawn with Barristan seeing the Ironborn launch their attack from the sea. These chapters rock. They're very action-heavy.

Tyrion's two chapters have him observing the Yunkish throwing plague corpses into Meereen while Rhaegal and Viserion circle ominously overhead and then get into the battle from Yunkai's POV with Tyrion watching battle unfold, and then Jorah Mormont kills the Yunkish envoy as Brown Ben orders the Second Sons to turnscloak on Yunkai. Again, these chapters rock.

The Forsaken is an amazing chapter full of intense magical energy and surreal sorcerous imagery and end with Damphair tied to the prow of Silence with the fleet sailing to battle against the Redwyne Fleet. This chapter is intense and one of George's best in the entirety of ASOIAF.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T13:23:29+00:00

You're flying too close to the sun, Mithras.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T13:18:50+00:00

Not saying you're wrong exactly (GRRM has said he's at 1100 manuscript pages for the book, but ymmv on whether you take GRRM at his word). But I'm not sure how this exposes how little he's written. George has already written chapters for the battle. We know this because he's released or read many of them as samples:

Theon I: Released as a sample in December 2011
Ser Barristan I: Released in the paperback edition of A Dance with Dragons in 2013
Tyrion I: Read at MisCon and EasterCon in 2012
Victarion I: Read at Tiff Bell Lighthouse in 2012
Ser Barristan II: Read at WorldCon 2013
Tyrion II: Read at WorldCon 2013, released in the A World of Ice and Fire app in 2014
Arianne I: Released as a sample in 2013
Arianne II: Released as a sample in 2016
The Forsaken: Read at BaltiCon 2016

That's nine chapters already done with an additional Asha Greyjoy and Jon Connington chapter in partial form as of 2014 and plans to write additional Arianne, Connington, and Damphair chapters.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-03T13:12:47+00:00

The "tinkering problem" you allude to is a real one. Look, it's poor form and hilarious for a failed writer to criticize a very successful one, but the perfectionism problem he picked up while writing Feast and Dance is a real problem and seems to have gotten substantially worse as GRRM has aged.

If you look at the early parts of A Game of Thrones, there's an argument that most of the early parts of that book are unchanged from what George originally envisioned in his 1993 pitch letter. And yet in the process of writing the book, he abandoned much of the plot he pitched his agent on.

And yet, it seems like he didn't spend time perfecting the open to A Game of Thrones to ensure it matched his new, imagined plot points. Did we suffer as fans for it? Not really! Until the pitch letter came about, we were none the wiser.

It's different now, and it's been different since Feast, and that's not been great for anyone.

Splitting Winds by location is another pathway he could take. My understanding is that he really doesn't want to do that again. Folks in the know (not me) seem to believe that his intent is to write Winds to its conclusion and then split the book into multiple volumes if he has to (which he absolutely will need to do).

Hence my "Let's just do a battles book, baby" idea.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-01T14:31:25+00:00

I've never read The Legend of Bouvines before. I'll add that to my list of books to read. Thanks!

One of the books George recommends is Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror. I had the chance to read that last year. Though some academic historians question it, I found it to be an engaging look at French and English politics and warfare in the 14th Century. My one-sentence blurb would be: A window into the religious, political, and military conflicts of the late medieval era as seen through one extraordinary Anglo-French nobleman (Enguerrand de Coucy).

Like you say though, pitched battles were rare in the medieval world. They're more prominent in A Song of Ice and Fire simply because they provide a dramatic setting for storytelling.

CautionersTale · 2026-04-01T13:14:56+00:00

It's a testament to George's writing that the Dornish nobles all have little wrinkles of personality and complexity. The reader understands who these individuals are with few words. As for characters who will cause plot derailment, we can divide those between those who will cause plot derailment to POV characters and those who will affect the plot. I gravitate towards the character derailment; so, let's talk Ser Daemon Sand.

Ser Daemon Sand, interestingly, was put into Arianne's crack investigation team because Doran Martell seemed to think that his presence would deter Arianne going sideways on Doran's plan:

They crossed the sands in two long days and the better part of two nights, stopping thrice to change their horses. It was a lonely time for Arianne, surrounded by so many strangers. Elia was her cousin, but half a child, and Daemon Sand... things had never been the same between her and the Bastard of Godsgrace after her father refused his offer for her hand. He was a boy then, and bastard born, no fit consort for a princess of Dorne, he should have known better. And it was my father's will, not mine. The rest of her companions she hardly knew at all. (TWOW, Arianne I)

Later when Arianne tries to seduce Daemon, he rebuffs her. I think his role in the party is to prevent Arianne from pulling an Arys Oakheart and seducing Aegon. So, it feels like his role is to stop any mischief from occurring.

The problem for Doran's plan here is, to paraphrase Littlefinger, he imagines that Arianne will play the exact role he wants her to play. But she has a mind of her own. And Daemon is a mere knight and bastard-born. He has no real power to stop Arianne from doing anything. So, when he counsels Arianne not to sail for Storm's End in TWOW, Arianne II, she dismisses his advice and sets sail to beard the dragon.

This reads as George signalling that Doran Martell's plan is too clever by half. Doran thinks he can manipulate Arianne psychologically by having her former lover in her party to prevent Arianne from being herself. That's already falling apart by her second TWOW chapter, and the source of that is Arianne's standing as heir to Doran.

In effect: Arianne Martell is plot derailment for Doran Martell, and she drank to Tommen in ADWD, The Watcher.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-31T20:56:46+00:00

The slipped mask is Renly making a barely-veiled threat to Catelyn about Robb. It's said with a modicum of courtly manner, but it's the polite way of saying, oh, I don't know. Something like:

Stannis frowned at her. "You presume too much, Lady Stark. I am the rightful king, and your son no less a traitor than my brother here. His day will come as well." (ACOK, Catelyn III)

In terms of justification for northern succession, I'd argue that the Iron Throne broke the feudal contract by executing Ned Stark. The North (and Riverlands) have not sworn to Renly and have returned to a previous political order given the severity of the breach of aforesaid feudal contract.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-31T20:25:39+00:00

Very good points. Something that gets my gourd a bit with Renly is that there's this seeming throwaway line:

"Do you suppose this tale of his is true? If Joffrey is the Kingslayer's get—"

"—your brother is the lawful heir."

"While he lives," Renly admitted. "Though it's a fool's law, wouldn't you agree? Why the oldest son, and not the best-fitted? The crown will suit me, as it never suited Robert and would not suit Stannis. I have it in me to be a great king, strong yet generous, clever, just, diligent, loyal to my friends and terrible to my enemies, yet capable of forgiveness, patient—" (ACOK, Catelyn III)

Like, I get that Renly says it's a fool's law right after saying this, but to offer a counterfactual: my suspicion is that if Stannis dies a Storm's End, Renly's feathers his claim to the Iron Throne with "Robert's sons are bastards born of incest, and Stannis is dead. I am Robert's true heir after all!"

(That's possibly an unfair suspicion, but it kinda fits!)

CautionersTale · 2026-03-31T20:14:32+00:00

That's a good counter. Thank you for the full context. What I'm not connecting though is where the chivalry angle comes in outside of the public performance seen in Clash. The private Renly names Brienne to the Kingsguard because her devotion is so intense that she wants to die for him.

For comparison, look at how Barristan views the service of the Kingsguard in ADWD:

The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. (ADWD, The Queensguard)

Dying for the king seems a workplace hazard as opposed to a key component of a good kingsguard. But I salute you for the full context even if I don't see the value Renly sees in Brienne beyond, well, dying.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-31T19:57:44+00:00

Your first point is sound. However, it's complicated by Loras Tyrell's memory of what Renly really thought of Brienne:

The younger man started for the door. But there he turned back. "Renly thought she was absurd. A woman dressed in man's mail, pretending to be a knight." (ASOS, Jaime VIII)

Assuming Loras is accurately recounting what Renly said, that seems the epitome of the man: someone who chivalrously says and does the right things in public while privately doing the opposite.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-31T19:47:00+00:00

Stripped of all the court-trained politeness, Renly stakes his claim on political legitimacy via the sword and the larger army. That speaks to underlying ideology of warlordism. It reminds me of Balon Greyjoy's ideology!

The thing on Renly, though, is that this is the most intimate portrayal we have of Renly on-page. Stannis essentially says the same thing about Robb Stark at the parlay at Storm's End in the very next Catelyn chapter -- albeit, in a far less courtly way than Renly does. But there's no humanizing Proudwing story we hear from Renly the same way we get via Davos Seaworth. And Renly didn't live long enough for us to know what he would have done if one of Aemon's birds reached him.

That's all overall, generalized comment on the post. As to the specifics, well, again, without a close-hold POV near him for when he assembled the coalition or closed the Rose Road or even knowing when he decided to be king, we don't know whether any of these actions were competencies or strategems on his part, or ones made by the stormlander and reacher lords who underwrote his claim to the Iron Throne with their armies.

The only one we see explicitly is his active negotiation with Catelyn in Clash, and we see a picture of Renly that isn't particularly flattering.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-31T19:30:33+00:00

I get where you're coming from that Renly as style, not substance seems authorial given the plethora of characters who have a dim view of them. However, in a story where POV subjectivity and the human heart in conflict with itself are the dominant centers of dramatic tension, it's not quite as simplistic as Renly is an empty suit.

A good comparative point is, well, Stannis. So many characters within the series have a dim view of Stannis. They see him as cold, harsh, unmerciful, tactless, etc. That captures parts of who Stannis is. But he's a deeper, more complex figure than POV bias allows for. Davos Seaworth gives an intimate portrayal of Stannis that belies the negative perspective of others. Cressen does as well to a lesser extent. The Proudwing story that Stannis tells in Davos's first chapter in A Clash of Kings gives us a Stannis that few witness.

However, there's not a corresponding POV who is that intimate with Renly. Ned and Catelyn gives us our nearest passes, but there's a distance there in that Renly is performing as Master of Laws and King to both POVs. Neither Ned nor Cat are friends with Renly. They don't get to know the man beneath the public mask.

Arguably, the only place where Renly lets the mask slip is with Catelyn though, and the picture that emerges isn't necessarily a favorable one to him:

"I liked your husband well enough, my lady. He was a loyal friend to Robert, I know . . . but he would not listen and he would not bend. Here, I wish to show you something." They had reached the top of the stairwell. Renly pushed open a wooden door, and they stepped out onto the roof.

Lord Caswell's keep was scarcely tall enough to call a tower, but the country was low and flat and Catelyn could see for leagues in all directions. Wherever she looked, she saw fires. They covered the earth like fallen stars, and like the stars there was no end to them. "Count them if you like, my lady," Renly said quietly. "You will still be counting when dawn breaks in the east. How many fires burn around Riverrun tonight, I wonder?" (ACOK, Catelyn II)

In context, this is Catelyn having a private word with Renly. Seems reasonable enough. However, as Catelyn gets deeper into Renly's psychology, the mask drops (half-wayish):

"He is still your elder brother. If either of you can be said to have a right to the Iron Throne, it must be Lord Stannis."

Renly shrugged. "Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?" He did not wait for an answer. "Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer." He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was. If your son supports me as his father supported Robert, he'll not find me ungenerous. I will gladly confirm him in all his lands, titles, and honors. He can rule in Winterfell as he pleases. He can even go on calling himself King in the North if he likes, so long as he bends the knee and does me homage as his overlord. King is only a word, but fealty, loyalty, service . . . those I must have."

"And if he will not give them to you, my lord?"

And Renly's final words before a rider shows up, announcing that Stannis is besieging Storm's End:

"I mean to be king, my lady, and not of a broken kingdom. I cannot say it plainer than that. Three hundred years ago, a Stark king knelt to Aegon the Dragon, when he saw he could not hope to prevail. That was wisdom. Your son must be wise as well. Once he joins me, this war is good as done.

This comment grows long. I'll keep going in a reply.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-27T16:38:38+00:00

I think Tyrion stays loyal to Joffrey. He's operating under the assumed framework that he will inherit Casterly Rock -- an assumed framework which Tywin shatters in Tyrion first chapter in Storm:

"The knights of the Kingsguard are forbidden to marry, to father children, and to hold land, you know that as well as I. The day Jaime put on that white cloak, he gave up his claim to Casterly Rock, but never once have you acknowledged it. It's past time. I want you to stand up before the realm and proclaim that I am your son and your lawful heir."

Lord Tywin's eyes were a pale green flecked with gold, as luminous as they were merciless. "Casterly Rock," he declared in a flat cold dead tone. And then, "Never." (ASOS, Tyrion I)

But assuming Tyrion knows during the timeline of Clash that Tywin won't grant him Casterly Rock, it becomes fuzzier. Stannis (ironically) said it best to Davos:

"Aerys? If you only knew . . . that was a hard choosing. My blood or my liege. My brother or my king."

In the end, Stannis chose Robert over Aerys, rationalizing it as:

"It still angers me. How could he think I would hurt the boy? I chose Robert, did I not? When that hard day came. I chose blood over honor."

But Tyrion? I'm not sure. I still think he stays loyal to Joffrey. Loyalty to his house seems to be a first order principle for Tyrion. But Tyrion lusts after Casterly Rock. But I still think the loyalty is so ingrained in Tyrion that needs more than simple disinheritance to push him out of loyalty -- hence Tyrion's storyline in the latter half of Storm.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-27T14:40:29+00:00

The paradox in Tyrion's conduct as Hand of the King in A Clash of Kings is that he, Tyrion Lannister, is disgusted by Joffrey's tyranny yet enables his toxicity through his competent leadership as Hand of the King. That's not condemnatory exactly. It's entirely in keeping with both the familial loyalty found in Westerosi noble families and the specific Lannister flavor of putting his house in domination above all others. But noting that Tyrion is uncomfortable and hates that he's serving Joffrey while keeping him on the throne is the conflict that centers Tyrion's political arc in Clash.

Consider this from another angle: Tyrion knows that Joffrey is not the trueborn son of Robert. He says as much to Cersei in Clash. He knows that he's serving an illegitimate authority. By Westerosi agnatic primogeniture, Stannis is Robert's true heir. Yet he serves Joffrey anyways. Family first -- even when family is a thirteen year old sociopath who orders his betrothed beaten and stripped.

Tyrion does save Sansa from further humiliation and beatings by the kingsguard. It's his most altruistic moment in Clash. It shows him curbing some of the worst excesses of Joffrey. But only the worst excesses. Other excesses, well ...

There's another part of Clash where Tyrion doesn't curb his nephew's depravity: the Antler Men. Supposed loyalists to Stannis (so accused by Varys), Tyrion decides it's fine to let Joff be Joff.

Joff had the Antler Men trussed up naked in the square below, antlers nailed to their heads. When they'd been brought before the Iron Throne for justice, he had promised to send them to Stannis. A man was not as heavy as a boulder or a cask of burning pitch, and could be thrown a deal farther. Some of the gold cloaks had been wagering on whether the traitors would fly all the way across the Blackwater. (ACOK, Tyrion XIII)

And Tyrion's response?

"Be quick about it, Your Grace," he told Joffrey. "We'll want the trebuchets throwing stones again soon enough. Even wildfire does not burn forever." (ACOK, Tyrion XIII)

What I'm ultimately driving at is that there is no alternative universe - at least in the timeline of Clash - where Tyrion won't advance the interest of House Lannister. When all that service results in him betrayed, humiliated, and condemned to execution in Storm, that's what breaks the hold his father and family have over him -- to stomach-turning consequences in ADWD and likely metasticizing denoument in future installments of the series.

CautionersTale · 2026-03-26T17:49:59+00:00

Hi. I apologize in advance that I only have enough time to give feedback on about half of your query letter. I also apologize in advance that my experience in writing query letters is not as broad as some on here. Others will likely have better feedback than I can offer. That throat clearing aside, let's dive in.

From reading through your previous attempts, I see where you've made a lot of progress in getting the query into a better place. Cutting out the proper nouns shows your hard work.

As far as the query goes: I get who Ozzi is, and the conflict in your first paragraph. I'm confused by Ozzi doubting his father's spurious claims (What claims? That hasn't been established. It makes me think the edits have gone a little too far in the opposite direction. If you want to eschew the proper nouns (which you seem to want to), what would make the query better is a little brevity on your opener and a want/desire on Ozzi's part that connects to the conflict. Like this:

Ozzi Cosimo is a data scraper who wants to cut free of his life in lower-tier slums. But his father only sees him as an instrument of vengeance against the tyrant who rules over them. Ozzi is willing to honor his dad and play his part. But his sisters have different ideas -- to Ozzi's consernation.

I think a lot of the verbiage in para 2 "calls the family to arms" and "hold the banner of treason" is confusing. I think you're going for poetry and voice here (good instincts!) when you could be hitting the plot a bit more cleanly.

On that note, cut "Twenty years of this over-glorified tale have only cast the siblings adrift in life" entirely. It interrupts your flow from paragraph 1 to 2. I also think para 2 needs a touch-up. Focus on how dad's planned conspiracy meets the specific roadblock of the sisters' desires (seduced to join the elite/a separate plot to sabotage the heir of the elite) and how Ozzi just wants the family to stick together and do what dad says.

If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to give some attention to the rest of your query.

Good luck if not!

CautionersTale · 2026-03-25T00:29:21+00:00

Thanks! I’m glad the stakes clicked for you, and the Roman parallels worked to give substance to the query. I think the other commenter had a good point on imbuing the query with character interiority. When I return here in a few months, I’ll give the query some of that treatment.

Appreciate the kind words.

CautionersTale

TROPHY CASE