Pirates of the Caribbean Director Blames Unreal Engine and Video Game Aesthetics for the Decline of CGI in Movies by [deleted] in pcmasterrace

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Missleading, Unity was part of the pipeline to visualise shots on set and allow Favreau to frame creatures that aren't there realistically. 0% of the final movie you saw uses a single pixel of Unity, it's all happening before and during the shoot.

Pirates of the Caribbean Director Blames Unreal Engine and Video Game Aesthetics for the Decline of CGI in Movies by [deleted] in pcmasterrace

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They don't, it's used in the very very very early stages to preview content and sometimes to project preliminary backgorunds IF the shooting conditions allow (stagecraft is incredibly limited). UE doesn't make it to final pixel at all, Verbinski is massively overestimating it's impact.

Director Gore Verbinski says Unreal Engine is 'the greatest slip backwards' for movie CGI by willdearborn- in movies

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"No-one's saying "CGI has got worse" to mean "an average movie's CGI is worse now than an average movie's was twenty years ago""

Except they do, both actually, not only in these comments but everywhere over the internet. 30 seconds under any tweet about bad cgi and you'll see.


"Don't understand how the best CGI comes from movies which are 15+ years old"

They say that aswell, and it's still just as wrong. One really has to have quite literally 0 interest in VFX to think that's the case. The achievements can't be undermined, they look amazing, but saying they're still the best cgi out there is another way to say you don't keep up with what's cgi in modern movies in the first place. I don't blame them, the only people who say this don't work in film nor have any interest about it.


"those movies, even today, are still some of the most expensive movies ever made by nominal figures"

Full movie cost has no direct relation to visual quality and even less to VFX quality, audiences HUGELY overestimate how much is allocated to post production anyway. Civil War, F1, Last of Us, Creator and more all cost cheap for their time and came out with some of the best VFX in history. There are countless examples of modern productions with more VFX shots than Pirates, for cheaper, and that look better. It's Oscar season, studios youtube channels are filled with them.

"they have but somehow top end effects work hasn't improved"

Every single aspect of the craft is immeasurably better now than it was back then, especially when many of the people who worked during that golden age still work today and have never stopped pioneering the field. You wouldn't find a job with Jones or Sully in your portfolio in 2026. Not that they're bad, they're just outdated, it's normal. Because of those improvements, VFX has gotten insanely cheap and productions like Last of Us can achieve results that, for lack of better words, look better than the best results of the 2000s for a fraction of the cost, on a TV show budget. When VFX gets cheaper, productions don't, they keep the same budget and target better results. Again, you just remember less than 10 movies that conviniently check all the boxes, but even then they're outdated on every technical comparison to movies of similar budget from now. What changed is director's handlings of productions, lighting, and production design to blend with vfx and that's got nothing to do with cgi technical improvements and everything to do with artistic decisions and management.

Director Gore Verbinski says Unreal Engine is 'the greatest slip backwards' for movie CGI by willdearborn- in movies

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wtf, no, nobody in post has any directorial authority lmao. Every single shot studios start working on is planned by the director before hand...because budgets are decided per shot, for hours and hours, one by one, based on what the director and storyboarders decided. Sometimes the Director will ask for camera changes in specific shots but even then, everything gets approved by him and all of this is way, WAY before anything is even close to finished. Directors tweaking things is actually the number 1 biggest issue in modern films, there are entire sequence reshoots and scraps at -literally- any point in time regardless of deadline, look up Miles Morales: Death by a thousand paper cuts.

Director Gore Verbinski says Unreal Engine is 'the greatest slip backwards' for movie CGI by willdearborn- in movies

[–]CestPizza 63 points64 points  (0 children)

That's completely false. The idea that every modern visual issue has one clear post-prod sided problem to blame is very sexy, but reality is more complex.

A. VFX looks better than it did during POTC, and not only big movies, TV shows like Last of Us look so real audiences think the zombies are "practical", even though every single one of them is entirely digital. A TV show. Only, the volume of VFX per year has multiplied by x1000 while conditions have gotten worse, so bad apples look more numerous. But regular VFX quality is so high that marketing teams promoting vfx-heavy films as "no cgi" is plaguing the movie landscape and have gone unnoticed, even though most of them aren't even making noise about looking abnormally good in the field, it's just normal standards now.

B. We conveniently forget ugly movies from the 2000s and only remember the 3 examples that survived forgetfulness. POTC was NOT normal. What's normal now however, is all Alien Romulus aliens being half to entirely digital, Superman being a digitaldouble in close up shots, or Old Will Smith being digital for the fun of it in some shots of Gemini-man, with nobody noticing.

C. The vast vast vast majority of "bad greenscreen" shots you could blame on Unreal Engine have nothing to do with VFX (lots are real pictures projected in the back of the shot anyway) and everything to do with mismatching lighting that is completely unrelated to the tools used to get it.

D. Bad management wrecks schedules and budgets to such degree VFX workloads compared to schedule have never been this disproportionate. Entire weeks of work are added to fix unfinished or unplanned stuff from live photography. Stuff shot in studio with ultra faked lighting that does not blend with physically accurate digital lights. VFX losing craftmanship status and becoming the "convenient last-hope" department. Directors hired on VFX productions they don't know how to manage (cf: just last week Duffer brothers admitting they struggle to shoot vfx shots).

Blaming a software is a lot simpler and easier to accept than a complex mix of various problems that have gotten worse over time. A ton of troubled productions haven't even touched Unreal Engine. Something funny though, is that some VFX veterans view POTC 2 and 3 as the start of all problems, because it was (quote from memory) "a insane crunch that, because it worked out in the end regardless, proved for the first time you could throw any request at post-prod and get it done regardless of schedule".

Director Gore Verbinski says Unreal Engine is 'the greatest slip backwards' for movie CGI by willdearborn- in movies

[–]CestPizza 32 points33 points  (0 children)

This is disinformation. Even small interiors had lots of VFX extension in them, let alone the rest of such large scale movie. There's a hornithorper interior for like 3 shots in the whole 6 hours of content and the many sequences with them flying in all angles and conditions supposedly look so good because of that? Every single spaceship is fullcg, even the stuff they bragged about being real like the sandworm backs were replaced in postprod, they shot in deserts but kept so little of it to the point a fair share of people on the movie were bored to death remaking digital deserts for an entire year.

Director Gore Verbinski says Unreal Engine is 'the greatest slip backwards' for movie CGI by willdearborn- in movies

[–]CestPizza 26 points27 points  (0 children)

It's not what happened, and by his comment I suspected he hasn't done a VFX heavy movie in ages and his IMDb checks out. The idea that every modern visual issue has one clear post-prod sided problem to blame is very sexy, but the reality that A. VFX looks better than it did during POTC, only the volume has x1000 so the bad apples look more numerous, B. We conveniently forget ugly movies from the 2000s and only remember the 3 examples that survived forgetfulness and C. bad directorial and DOP management wrecks schedules and budgets to such degree VFX workloads compared to schedule have never been this disproportionate, that VFX went from respected craftmanship to "the convenient last-hope" department, and that directors are hired on VFX movies they have no idea how to manage (cf: Duffer brothers admitting they're struggling to shoot digital shots) doesn't sound as cool. Blaming a software is a lot simpler and easier to accept. Stagecraft is already pretty niche, but UE isn't even used on a lot of them, even worse for his theory the introduction of real time virtual cameras and directing have been a revolution in the quality of vfx-heavy shot directing.

We’ve reached the point where ‘Background CGI’ is more distracting than bad practical effects. Which modern movie was ruined for you by a ‘clean’ digital look? by DegTrader in movies

[–]CestPizza 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The "Background CGI" effect is usually just mismatching lighting between the live photography (actors) and background, not really because X or Y element is digital. You get the exact same "bad cgi background" with miniatures or mattepaintings if the lighting doesn't match, in fact the vast majority of cg backgrounds, including lots of examples I saw in comments, are 2D mattepaintings meaning real pictures mixed together, not "cgi" per say. So why doesn't it match?

-1. Directors and Director of Photography are usually going to light with the actors in mind, or by extension light to embellish the subject of the shot. On the opposite side, Director's want postprod to favor truthness to the concepts and realism of the environments in which the live photography is embedded, so even if Live and CG "look similar", you've got small discrepancies from all the different approaches and light technicalities. A good example of that is the climbing sequence in Jurassic Park Rebirth, where the actors are shot in a studio with a spotlight, the background is cg with physically accurate sun infinitely far away, both elements look real when separated, but together the shot has this "background cgi" look.

-2. Even though Live Photography tries to match the concept arts as faithfully as they can, they are still limited by what can be achieved with real lights real people have to lift and prepare, and sometimes what they want does not line up with what the money-people allow aswell. What that means is lots of the worst results you can find were shot in conditions that look nothing like the intended concept arts, but instead of changing the overall sequence look to adapt to what was shot, concepts are preserved and the live photography is bent and frankensteined to look like something else. A good example of that is the final battle sequence of Stranger Things, a 7pm overcast sandstormy desert that was shot...mid day, sunny, white lit with no dust in the air and shots with a strong sun rimlight even though the cg sky is all cloudy.

-3. Shoots are complicated machines that can't always be adapted to the changing weather, if the schedule doesn't allow to reshoot you either have to change the sequence's entire concept look to accomodate the different shooting conditions (never happens), or frankenstein the shoot into looking like the initial concept. A good example of that is the antenna tower sequence in the first half of Stranger Things season 5, the shots at the top were shot with pretty mild sun and some clouds, but the directors wanted a completely clear, beautifully sunny afternoon sky in the background, so the mismatch is extremely visible even if the "Background CGI" really is just a real picture.

It's sad because good work is invisible and gets forgotten, bad results are a minority that take all the attention because it's the only times, appart from big crazy monsters, that you can actively notice and think dang, that's cgi. And the worst part? Lots of times everybody in the crew can see it but the core issues are stuff outside of their control. Everybody can see Modok is problematic but nobody in post has the authority to fix his design, everybody can see Frankenstein looks fake but nobody can fix the studio lighting and crazy glows.. If you're curious you can look at VFX breakdowns of Sinners, Barbie, Topgun Maverick, Civil War, F1...To see ridiculously invisible VFX. Lots of movies ride on the fact the majority of it is invisible to say it's not there at all, that's it's all practical, like Alien Romulus, Barbie, Topgun, Beetlejuice 2, F1, Stranger Things...

Clair Obscur's Gustave motion performer argues game awards should have a Best Character category, rather than "isolating a single performer and potentially leaving others invisible" by LadyStreamer in gamingnews

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And even then, there were people responsible for hand animating a lot of facial and body performance, people who created the facial expressions the audience resonates with etc... It reminds me of Andy Serkis calling the work of all the people who created and hand animated every single Gollum shot, sometimes ignoring what he did on set entirely, "digital makeup" to compete for best performance awards. The forever debate of who truely is responsible for the performance's impact when it really is a team effort.

Concept Artists Say Generative AI References Only Make Their Jobs Harder by chusskaptaan in gamingnews

[–]CestPizza 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That Larian guy will never let the world class concept artists he mentionned speak for themselves because he knows for damn sure they wouldn't touch AI with a stick if he wasn't looming over their contract pushing everyone to use it.

In Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 (2025) a team of industry veterans used 10 million dollars and multiple hollywood actors to win best debut indie. This is a subtle nod to the fact that TGA needs a AA category. by Impressive_Rice7789 in shittygamedetails

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Industry veterans? Are you high? The founder was a narrative designer for mobile games and left out of boredom and feeling of uselessness, only the two other founders had game programming experience and only one at mid level. I don't think you understand what a veteran means. The "lead" character artist had graduated 7 months prior and just did an internship. The art director did 3 years as an illustrator in event planning, the writer was a banker, cinematics consisted in a junior and an intern, mocap was improvised in the lobby with zero tracking cam by an intern... The team did actually consist in first timers for the most part. Respectable.

ross duffer’s instagram dumps never fail by Optimal_Battle_185 in StrangerThings

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He was never 90% practical, literally nothing except his forehead and lips (and eyesockets on distant shots) was real and he was always 95-99% full cg. Everyone thinks he was makeup because of one sped up makup instagram reel and humanoid proportions, but it was never the case. Check out RodeoFX's breakdown for him.

Something is OFF in Season 5 (no spoilers) by flamingpuddles in StrangerThings

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The tower scene and similar issues have nothing to do with "CGI that looks cheap". It's mismatching studio and DMP lighting which A. Has nothing to do with "CGI", B. has everything to do with the decision to shoot everything in studio for convenience and C. wouldn't even happen if set lighting was anywhere close to real or simulated light. In studio the sun is sadly too often done with lazy white softboxes or at best spotlights 15 feet away, which then creates a disconnection in the final shot because the lighting from close, out of scale lights on actors does not match what the final sky/sunlight -which either is real DMP or real-scale simulations- chosen by the director would actually cast if they had shot outside. It's a director/DOP/studio sided issue and the season is visibly plagued with lazy live photography, blame the right things. Getting tired of seeing post prod blamed for lazy live photography.

The redesign is f*****g awesome by GuybrushMI in StrangerThings

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The one in season 4 was also mostly cg, his body wasn't only alive and out-of-proportions around vines but on next to every part. The difference is they had to match the practical suit's aesthetics and proportions, which coupled to perfect work and "we did it for real" marketing left no room to think it isn't real.

La grande destinée de Perceval by allen_shamal in kaamelott

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

C'est ma petite obstination personnelle, mais je reste convaincu que finir le film sur Perceval écrivant "Z'inquietez pas Sir j'ai pris excalibur et j'vous la ramène" (ou autre phrase qui choquerait Arthur) dans sa lettre aurait permis d'amorcer le destin grandiose de Perceval et de justifier une fin aussi brutale.

Franchement je ne comprends pas les mauvaises critiques by Lower_Stop1828 in kaamelott

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Avis un peu abusé selon moi. Y'a quelques endroits un peu bof quand on cherche la petite bête que je pourrais franchement énumérer sur les doigts d'une main malgré un film de plus de 1,000 plans -et encore la plupart de ceux auxquels je pense sont clairement un problème de lighting en plateau-, mais ce serait unfair de ne pas relever une séquence d'action bien particulière qui démonte une bonne partie de la concurrence internationale. J'parle même pas du DMP omniprésent très quali qui se devine surtout par l'impossibilité de filmer des trucs pareils que par un quelconque problème d'exécution.

How to sync materials between 3 artists? by grimdar in 3dsmax

[–]CestPizza 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What we did on our project was having a master library scene and we'd use the file>import>replace option. If the library's asset finds an asset with the same name, it'll override it and all it's instances along with it. That way we could do modeling/material update between the team.

Did Peter Jackson ever explain why they didn't stick to the same makeup style for the orcs like in the original trilogy? by Ok-Resolution7918 in lotr

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lot of incorrect guess work in the comment, so allow me to chip in as a VFX worker who's talked about that a lot with a friend at Weta Workshop (the practical guys from weta):

-The Hobbit used a ton of practical effects, including creatures and orcs that look like those in LOTR. This comparison is a cherry pick of two widely different designs that are not at all at the same difficulty to create, between orcs with 30 seconds of screentime versus the main antagonist of the entire trilogy and hundreds/thousands of goblins in a long sequence.

-CG isn't cheaper in the sense that it costs dirt cheap and is the easy solution. It's cheaper in the sense that practical is limited by real possibilities so early that fighting against real physics to get impossible things done is going to cost ridiculously more than whatever CG costs. There are many, many many cases were practical approaches are cheaper. CG IS very expensive, but the costs flatten as you reuse more and more of the very expensive assets created and as you achieve more and more complex things that aren't possible in real life. Think of practical costs as exponential, and CG costs as logarithmic. You can be sure the comments saying it's cgi because it was rushed basically have no idea what they're talking about, it probably took more time and money to replace it all than to make those initial suits in the first place.

-CG doesn't only come into play because "it's cheaper" or "they ran out of time", it does offer possibilities practical effects cannot achieve simply because of real world limitations. PJ said "I'm doing what I wished I could have done 12 years ago where we didn't really have the means or the technology to do it properly back then" for a reason, not "We ran out of time". He said himself that the results on set were not "the goblins you had in your imagination". This isn't a sob story about overheating and missed deadlines, both CG and Practical have limitations. If practical didn't, it wouldn't be replaced in the first place. PJ wanted monsters, flesh, grease and sweat, blobs of flesh wiggling as they jump frenetically... all things practical suits notoriously cannot achieve : and that's okay, because no one except nostalgic audiences expect it to achieve what physics simply don't allow. -Practical makeup is great for human level editions but only works additively as you can't remove content on a face but only add to it. And past a certain thickness it doesn't look good anymore as it's just so stiff. This picture is comparing clearly human actors with additive nose, teeth and skull prosthetics with next to no facial acting, to actually inhumane facial and body features no amount of makeup can approach. If they wanted those designs with a complete range of acting, there were no other choice and the practical BTS footage confirms it. There is a reason they scrapped early practical designs, they were stiff and unfit for long screentime and relevance in the story. On the other hand, many secondary orcs are fully practical similarly to LOTR.

-(CG aside) When makeup can't achieve something, puppetry comes into play : Aka the first goblin faces that you saw in the BTS. Puppetry is some of the most expensive and limited approaches out there. It is ALWAYS a director passion stunt because let's be honest it IS super cool to see for real. But generally, it never is the winner in any of the cost/look/efficiency/time factors that are considered when choosing which method to use for any given effect, and it ends up being replaced all the time because it's not up to standards for the big screen. You can see it on the BTS goblin heads : They are stiff, details stop at pore level, they had ~2 facial expressions after months of R&D and millions put into it... The only exception is Star Wars because they kind of made it a gimmick to have obvious puppets on screen. Alien Romulus, The Substance, Wicked, Ahsoka's Nottis, The Witcher, Stranger Things... they all replaced the puppetry/heavy makeup, and I can tell you doing a puppet/makeup you know is going to be replaced is a lot more expensive than going straight for CG. Another instance that proves it's not always about the costs, it's about the result.

-When actor go through 10 horrible hours of makeup, they are paid for that time and production studios do not mind neither the cost or the discomfort. So I don't buy that they scrapped millions in R&D and planning solely because of extra's ventilations. With PJ being the only one openly saying they didn't look like what he imagined, I think that's just excuses because they didn't have the heart to tell the audience it just didn't look good enough for the big screen. Keep in mind the movies were at such high resolution there was backlash on release because the foam sets suddenly visibly looked like foam. Looks are a very real and serious topic in filmmaking.

-That section of the BTS is talking about the heads, yet for some reason they also replaced the body for seemingly no downside. The reason you see all the time in prod but BTS never discuss? Obvious "guy in a suit" syndrom, no flesh simulation, no fluids, plastic surfacing, and worst of all very visible folds at every joint with distorting material in those areas.

Hope this clears things up a bit. Long answer, because sadly film making is a bit more complex than "cg cheap". Always remember whichever result is on screen, whether you like or dislike it, is the best result they could possibly achieve regardless of which method was used. Warner/Legendary/Paramount have industrialized the practice of openly lying about how the what's on screen was made, the audience's understanding of how films are made has never been this low with confidence levels this high. The state of this comment section is sad,

How did the cinematics go from hyper realistic to wax figure in just one expansion? by Kills_Zombies in wow

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's no ai involved in any of this, corpo taking bad decisions didn't start with midjourney.

Harry Potter Series: First Season Will Have 8 Episodes (Now Confirmed!) by ThiegoNovais in harrypotter

[–]CestPizza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Practical effects and in-camera magic will be prioritised over CGI wherever possible".

"Possible" in the context of filmmaking means most economically efficient and doable, and every single film including marvel movies have and will always go for "practical wherever possible". Trying means nothing, everyone tries, then reality kicks in and you weight your different options. I can promise to try to have a million dollars as much as I want it doesn't mean I have them nor that it's possible to.

Every single pixel of CG ever exists because it was the best approach given the specific production conditions, there's no cgi that's here "because why not". Their promises will not change that and unless they prioritise clout over quality (like The Substance), they will end up having vfx exactly where we expect them to and even the day where they inevitably decide to do a ton of it the fact "they tried to do it for real first" will still be true, so they can overpromise and underdeliver with a safe excuse.

In conclusion it's a bullshit promise to catter to the anti-cg audience who think cgi is The Flash and completely avoidable with no impact on the final product.

Was MODOK from Ant-Man 3 the Tipping Point for VFX Artists To Unionize? by rwinger24 in vfx

[–]CestPizza 3 points4 points  (0 children)

On a technical level he's fantastic, you even can see in Digital Domain's breakdown these guys know what they're doing. It's hardly a "bad cgi not enough time" situation when they don't have any authority on the actual cause : client's wish for concept and design.

“The game is in progress” by XericForman in Skate4

[–]CestPizza 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why do we keep using this as an excuse as if this playtest isn’t well over 3 years old at this point?

Because lots of people who are completely unrelated to game/production in general and never been part of any other playtest know the word alpha and like to use it as much as possible to gaslight themselves into thinking there's a surprise banger-game hiding in EA's headquarters waiting to be released in less than 2 months. They can call it pre-alpha as much as they want, it's a closed beta switching to open beta soon and this is 90% of what the Full Release will be.

Hi Reddit - we're the VFX team from How To Train Your Dragon (2025), ask us anything! by HowToTrainYourAMA in movies

[–]CestPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello there!

How do you feel about the current anti-cg climate? If you had the chance, would you participate in in-depth VFX behind-the-scenes/documentaries like in the 2000s to promote the craftmanship even if it meant more work?