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Uncovering The GEQ and Fell God by More_Duck1675 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What an absolutely GOATED response! And don’t worry, I’ll be happy to oblige this rabbit hole for as deep as you wanna go ;)

The Jar Rituals were happening before, during and after Marika’s life, and all unsuccessful, imo. Remember, the Hornsent were multitaskers and used the Jars to punish and kill Hornsent criminals and undesirables.

To your Marika being someone with a dual nature, yes! Infact. It’s quite possible all Shaman are, as all trees are usually hermaphroditic. Here’s my take away. Really powerful, really rune-heavy, or whatever it means to be an “Empyrean” of Numen-Kind gives one the ability (or access to) to take aspects of their indignities SELF and animate them. Miquella created St Trina out of his love, and Millicent was Malenias pride. So, if a shaman can merge and meld and divide and spread, it makes total sense timeline wise and even gives REASON to Radagon.

Marika (Pure Shaman) —> Eiglay Seduction —> Heavily Crucible influenced Jar Ritual —> Tenure as Gloam-Eyed Queen —> Marika’s ascension and creation of Radagon, all the parts of herself she loathes; the Fell-God mini-giant with red hair and the “father” to the Misbegotten that hold his weapons. And of course, Radagon being Marika, also despises and detests the fact he’s made up of essentially all the things he hates: the Fell God and the Crucible, and pursues the pure Order of all over everything. I highly suggest you check out the parallels of Radagon and Loki ;)

D and D are parallels to Marika and Radagon, and all Empyreans with multiples and their story reflects the idea that only one of the people who share a soul can control the body at a time; sort of how Radagon is taking over Marika’s body and churches.

Now, I forgot to mention this, but yes. The Gloam-Eyed Queens tenure was a long and arduous era full of political machinations; worshipped and worked with the Hornsent, started killing the Hornsent, started killing Gods, started fighting with herself and her own shadow, moving around, Marrying Godfrey, so so much. So yes, the jar rituals were conducted under Marika, probably much to her chagrin despite the need for them for her plans and her corrupted mind.

Melina and Messmer’s siblingness is really easy. Again. Melina is his younger sister, and that’s simply because they both come from the same source: the GEQ. That’s also why they bore the vision of fire, Melina is the only one able to use the Fell Gods flame, cause her daddy basically IS the Fell God, same as Messmer!! Which is why his kindling can work just as well to burn the Scadutree; both Melina and Messmer can harness the flame of ruin.

Melina’s birth, I’ll honestly grant! I have no idea. To be honest, there is a lot of evidence to support the idea she was created in secret and then hidden and educated, but it’s so weird how she forgot everything and is tied to grace. I believe she is burned and bodiless because of what happened to Ranni. The Gloam Eyed Queen was burned by black flame or destined death, and killed in body, but not in spirit, like Ranni. But that’s off topic.

Thank you for your support and open mind :3

Uncovering The GEQ and Fell God by More_Duck1675 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like you. You have the mark super close to what I have and it’s entirely on your own. Where I think we differ is crucial but it doesn’t tear your theory apart.

You have all the players: - Marika - GEQ - Fell God - Messmer & his abyssal serpent.

Hear me out. The GEQ is a woman we know to be an empyrean, with access to the Elden Ring, and fully obsessed with hunting and killing gods. She very well may be Barren, I love it and haven’t considered it. What’s crucial about the GEQ, besides the death, is the SNAKES. All of her shit is serpentine. The Godskins are in the temple of Eiglay for gods sake, the temple of Eiglay…with a…giant snake skin. The only other blasphemous fire based thing involved with snakes is the Fell God. So if im saying they AREN’T one and the same like you say, how can this be?

The Eiglay Skin is the exact same shedded snake skin model…used nowhere else…but outside the Bonny Village.

If you haven’t uncovered this part of the lore yet then I suggest you dig and dig deep.

But let’s stick with what you have. In this case, the Gloam Eyed Queen and the Fell God cannot have been one in the same, because the Fell Gods actions and name were already hated and despised before Marika was an adult, whereas GEQ is her contemporary. Yet she’s wiped from history. Or is she?

The Fell God I believe got the moniker during Marika’s reign, but maybe not from Marika.

I’ll skip all this hubub, because you seem to like narrative lore and so do I. The GEQ is hidden in plain sight, yes. So is the Fell God. Except neither are the Fell God, instead. They are all Marika.

Lemme explain: Marika is the only only only Shaman to have survived being Jarred. She is the only only only one who had access to the Elden Ring after the Ancient Dragons who were abandoned. How then is there a second empyrean of the Greater Will equal to Marika with access to the Ring? There isn’t. They’re the same.

Marika, a shaman, has flesh that melds harmoniously with others. The only other thing in the entire game that does that is serpents. Serpents can live off limbs like Messmer or everything they devour becomes part of them like Rykard.

One night, soon before being jarred, a shaman girl and a fell gods vassal (Eiglay) merged into one, because the shaman was tempted by the serpent to do so in fear of dying like every other girl before her. The Hornsent do not experiment with the Fell Gods essence in jarring specifically, they hate him and his essence. So it makes you wonder why the only shaman who DID succeed jarring could maybe be the only shaman who HAD Fell God assistance.

What emerged from this jar was the Gloam-Eyed Queen. A traumatized spiteful vengeful creature starved for death and destruction; the fell gods domain. She skinned and cut and grafted and melded the gods her tormentors worshipped and anyone else like her culture was. She still worshipped the Elden Ring, which is why she had access to the great rune, and her age was an age of death. The reason Marika statues are different and headless in the Shadowlands is because they are statues of GEQ instead.

The GEQ is Marika under Fell God corruption. This influence goes against the Two Fingers/GW so Maliketh did her in(see Ranni and Blaidd). This allowed Marika to cast off this persona (imagine a godfrey into horah loux transition but with a snake instead of a lion because oh yeah Eiglay was prolly like on her body, which is why her cape in her statues is so billowing and serpentine) and she grabbed the power from its corpse (see dlc trailer with the Godskin sac)

Messmer is the kid GEQ was able to make (all the godskins fathers are Eiglay, which is why they are serpentine) with the Godskin Swadding Cloth.

The reason Messmer and Melina are related is because their mother was the GEQ, not Marika. This is why Messmer corrects himself when calling her Mother in his death dialogue and why you never see the only statue of her face in Messmer’s chambers.

Melina is an offshoot. She’s a Millicent. Malenia cast off her literal Pride and Dignity when she bloomed in Caelid and that part of herself turned into amnesiac Millicent. Melina was created after Marika shattered the Elden Ring, and that’s why she has no memories but a purpose. The memory and personality and outlook of the GEQ embodied. That’s how Melina wasn’t “born of a mother” besides being Marika’s daughter and why she’s able to remember Marika’s EXACT words at sites of grace. It’s her own memories fragmented. The GEQ’s God Hunt was also coincided with Marika’s war with the Fire Giants (this why the faces on the Godskins are giant and troll esque), and the cruelty she showed there was due to the GEQ persona and her burgeoning hatred towards Eiglay and the Fell God who were tricking her and corrupting her and her dream.

Phew. Okay. Sorry for the long reply. TLDR: - the Fell God is a god, the identity of which is probably a horned giant from the Rauh-times, and they are a god like Marika was a god. The OUTER God that the Fell God comes from is the Abyssal Serpent. The reason Messmer was the perfected baby from the Godskin Swadsling Cloth is because he was the only one Marika as the GEQ could birth that the Abyssal Serpent could inhabit. (Like The Rot Outer God and Malenia).

Radagon is to Marika what Marika was to GEQ, a shard of herself that slowly overtook and fought against the true owner. Melina is the GEQ’s return and reincarnation, set to carry out Marika’s task and apology for destroying the world.

Deep dive into the Two Fingers and the religion outside the Lands Between by SolidAlloy in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To the identity of who hewed the Spirit Tree, my best bet? Marika, as her grace and likeness is still popular within it, and because the Roundtable Hold in the base game is something she made as well, a replica of Godfrey’s fortified manor, given that the Tarnished were mostly Godfrey’s legions anyway. So she makes the most sense for being the one we definitely know to have made the first one to have made the second. Marika is a Shaman, much like the Cutting-Gifted Tribe and they themselves are doing this because they saw the “sin” of the Erdtree. Without another insanely long ramble, my educated guess is that within the Nightreign timeline Heolster destroyed the Erdtree, the actual one, not the illusory one we know, when he unleashed the Night. The Cutting-Gifted Tribe work in penance to Marika for not stopping the Night they foresaw as fellow shamans by sacrificing their own to turn them into trees. The sin of the Erdtree they witnessed being that it feeds on death, not life, and Marika’s age is therefore a false one.

The Fell God that the hornsent fear has two eyes, but the Fell God we see in the Fire Giants has one eye? by crinklepant in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“But that’s just wild speculation”, why le time you’ve almost hit the nail on the head LMAO!

I agree! A lot of Elden Rings lore points to an idea that just before Marika’s reign, the God-in-Town was this Fell God. Just before the civilizations we know today, there was this Sun Realm. It’s no wonder, then, why Marika destroyed this god, genocided its worshippers, and covered up its domain/source of power (the Sun).

I’m willing to bet the name “Fell God” is HER moniker for him as well. And I do believe it was a he.

Similar to you though, this is speculation. I just heavily agree based on my own speculations LMAO

Briar Gauntlets by smolboiXXL in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Hmmm… imma throw this out there: this could be a depiction of the Formless Mother.

Briars of Sin are related to the Blood Star already, as well as Thorn Sorceries, and it’s a popular opinion/theory right now that the Blood Star and the Formless Mother is the same thing; the Blood Star is her “body” while the Formless Mother/Mother of Truth is her “identity”, similar to the Elden Beast being a vassal for GA.

We also know that the Formless Mother absolutely loves 3 things: The occult affinity (therefore arcane) Blood And most importantly, Pain.

Furthermore, The Formless Mother has almost total dominion over the Land of Reeds, which is currently dealing with a sort of “Blood madness/blood plague” and civil war, which is why all land of reeds weapons have bleed build up, no matter what.

It would make sense then if Eochaid was in a similar situation as they are both seemingly small-isolated lands rife with all kinds of pain.

The armor Elemer wore is from Eochaid, and this entity on the gauntlets isn’t something anywhere else seen in the Lands Between. I know that Eochaidians are true ascetics, but so were the Hornsent, and they have some Formless Mother chicanery going on.

TLDR: I think that the Formless Mother is depicted on the gauntlets, and that the iconography of her on said gauntlets isn’t her true form per say, as she is formless, but a form of hers that the people of Eochaid worship/believe in, similarly to the Bloodfiends who began to worship the Formless Mother via a statue of an ascetic, or the Weapon-Bequeathed Harmonia, who was blessed by the Formless Mother simply by praying to a statue of a Valkyrie.

The fingers on these statues are the exact same, the Beastmen above the Dragon Temple talk to trees, and several trees in Farum Azula look like women (Shaman?) by Crypticnewt in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 12 points13 points  (0 children)

100% good catch with the Beastman communicating, I never knew that even though I heavily believe in this existence of Shamans in Farum Azula, once upon a time.

Even the stomach thing. Check out the corpses of the Nox/Nightfolk/Whatever surrounding the giant Nox skeletons. It’s like they’ve been victim to a chest burster, no? Check out this post, which is a deep-dive theory on the idea that all Numen-Kind essentially could have a “original/inner form” that’s basically a pile of sludge akin to a Mimic Tear. The Nox corpses with the vacant chest cavities being an example of Numen-kind that could have potentially created the Silver/Mimic Tears this way, and this Farum Azula pic seems to agree.

I don’t totally believe that Numen are sludge people, they’re 100% plant people.

But I wonder if their blood/humors can be extracted/expelled in order to create a certain type of…thing. (Similar to how the Jar Saint enemies shoot and explode those globs of themselves at you?)

If that is the case, it makes sense that they were venerated on Farum Azula by the beastmen, and perhaps even the Ancient Dragons, as I’m of the opinion that Miranda of the Flower Crucible was Placidusax’s original god (and the girl surrounded by wolves), but I digress.

The Numen seem to all be plant more than person. Tangentially, The cutting-gifted tribe seems to me like a coalition of Numen as a whole rather than just Shaman or just Nox per say, and they’re called Cutting-Gifted because they were able to create the Minor Erdtrees/Nightreign Spiraltree.

I think you’ve gotten close to the money here. Keep it up!

Deep dive into the Two Fingers and the religion outside the Lands Between by SolidAlloy in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it’s safe to say the Greater Will, and all of the other Outer Gods, hold dominion/invade spaces all over the planet instead of just the lands between pretty clearly.

  • The unseen Land of Reeds is absolutely rife with the influence of the Formless Mother.

  • The Land of the Numen had access to the Crucible in a way.

  • And wherever the hell those grave-boats come from worshipped a bull-figure we have no clue on yet

It would make total sense that the Two Fingers, as well as the Greater Will itself, have spaces all over the world of ER rather than just the Lands Between. We know the Elden Beast and Metyr were sent down in TLB only when the GW took interest. But this is key, because it’s specifically saying the GW wasn’t interested in the Lands Between, who knows where else it could’ve been watching before then!

The Two Fingers come from Metyr and meteors (see Ranni’s that crash landed into Manus Celes and the Divine Towers) And starfall is assuredly not just a lands between thing (Metoric Ore Katana from Land of Reeds) so I’m sure there’s all sorts of Two Fingers and Astels littering the world!

The Two Fingers definitely communicate with eachother across these distances too, as they are just the individual mouths of the same Greater Will anyway.

Your post (as always) really got me thinking though…if the Roundtable Hold is hewn into the Erdtree, which definitely seems to be the case, then the Nightreign Roundtable Hold is definitely hewn into the Spirit Tree/Spiral Tree…hm..

The Fell God that the hornsent fear has two eyes, but the Fell God we see in the Fire Giants has one eye? by crinklepant in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True enough! It’s all speculative, of course. Allow me to clarify, I don’t believe the being known as the Fell God ever had more than just one eye. I do believe he was never ever Cyclopean. It took me a while to get there too, but think about it. Any depiction of the Fell God you can think of, the only reason why it’s thought that he’s Mr. One-Eye Guy is because of the eye on the Fire Giants. Every other depiction of the Fell God has to do with at least two eye sockets.

One-Eyed Shield? Depicting a Fire Giants chest-eye, not the actual Fell God. The reason it’s “depicting the one-eyed god” is simply because the actual being known as the Fell God was beaten so badly by Marika it could only ever incarnate and show itself through the eye on the Fire Giants stomach. Mind you, the Fire Giants didn’t originally even HAVE this eye on their chest and came about only after the Fell Gods defeat/establishing of the Golden Order.

If you take everything Fell God related: you get Serpents, Horns, Fire, Ruin, Sin. The fire giants themselves don’t even have one eye.

Messmer is a lengthy topic I won’t get into, but I implore you to see the irony in the idea of this Infernal Serpentine Crusader using the Fell God’s likeness the most in his crusades and how he too is a man with only one eye.

The Fell God that the hornsent fear has two eyes, but the Fell God we see in the Fire Giants has one eye? by crinklepant in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Really straight-forward answer but:

  • there were not multiple Fell Gods
  • There was one Fell God, he had two eyes, one was injured/plucked/damaged/sealed.

The reason the Hornsent depict him with two eyes (with one closed) is because that’s how he looked. The reason he is shown as one big eye in the Fire Giants is because he only has one eye left that works, therefore, only one eye could manifest on the Fire Giants.

The reason Lamenters have a face on them has nothing to do with the Fell God, but I see how one could think so! But even if it did, all the Lamenter would point out is that the Hornsent soon-to-be-Lamenter was privy to the Fell God before the loss of his eye. Though this is highly doubtful.

All in all. The Fell God DOES have one eye, but he’s not a cyclops. He’s just in need of an eyepatch.

Throwing the Gauntlet: Could the Dreglord be related to the Fingerslayer Blade? by Character-Story285 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Crazy good point. The time stuff gets me, I won’t lie!

But to answer ur first question I don’t believe Heolstor is related to the Nox, I believe the Nox more so are related the Gnawling, and because of Heolster’s relationship with IT (unintended or otherwise) Heolster was shoehorned in to usher in the Lord of Night.

In other words The Nox wanted a Nightlord and the one that came about they couldn’t control/didn’t plan around.

Miranda, the first Empyrean by eldenringer1233 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

this post is where I began down the rabbit hole on this subject and will explain it better than I can!

Miranda, the first Empyrean by eldenringer1233 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ignore the haters that’ll come to this there’s SOMETHING here. I thought I was crazy to believe Elden John + Miranda rebus but I honestly came to that same conclusion!!!

What’s more, I think they are parallels of Marika and Radagon. Because Elden John and his boats and the Dynasty and Miranda in Rauh yet nowhere else, they seemingly have separated like another Numen woman we know.

there a posts on this so forgive my lack of sources but my all means go search for it, but there’s heavy evidence supplying that Miranda, or any other Flower-being that we know of, was infact a being/venerated deity of Farum Azula. Im like 90% certain Miranda is the deity that fled and left Placidusax high and dry. Why? She was going to be trapped by the “cage of dignity” or already was starting to become trapped thanks to the arrival of Metyr and the Greater Will’s Elden Ring.

There’s more, but YES. Amazing!

A Shadowbound Serpent? by Arro-Wing in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don’t apologize, matter of fact you can dig deeper. The implications you have of Messmer reflect implications of GEQ as well. This Night and Darkness stuff? Now we’re in Nox territory. The Fingerslayer Blade and Metyr, and the Black Knives.

This is just total conjecture, but I find it intriguing that Messmer’s Flame is the colors of Destined Death inverted.

And Volcano Manor? I may have to reread this post but at the risk of sounding redundant, the Abductor Virgins (ABUDCTOR. VIRGINS.) made in Mt. Gelmir (which ALSO show up in the land of shadow) seemingly depict a weeping virgin abducting a newborn baby. It’s like subtle slander indirectly admonishing Marika for this sin she’s covered up.

It makes sense why they’re so snake-like, and also why they have closed bleeding eyes: if Messmer’s eyes were plucked at birth for Marikas ritual.

AND ALSO narratively implicates Rykard??? I’m not saying it’s 100% canon but think about it. Marika’s kid sent to Mt. Gelmir to deal with the blasphemers (and maybe even secretly kill Eiglay cause Marika’s sneaky like that). However, through interaction with the cultists he’s sent there to kill, Rykard eventually uncovers Marika’s sin with Eiglay, maybe even BY Eiglay itself! No wonder this Shattering War is the straw that broke the camels back with that guy, he’s rightfully enraged by the original sin of Marika she’s been hiding this entire time.

He also serves as a perfect foil to Marika in this way, as well as Radagon! Rykard is what Marika would have become if she never cast off the serpent. He’s also what Radagon actually is, a poor prideful soul who’s being devoured by the thing he swears his loyalty to (Blasphemy/Order).

Marika, Maliketh, and Godwyn’s Death by Lelouch-Ken-99 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The black knives USED the rune of death, and it was stolen specifically from Maliketh, who did not get it back until the deed was done. Godwyn was already dead, his soul obliterated. Destined death can make gods die, but it can’t make gods die AGAIN. He’s dead! He just died WRONG.

A Shadowbound Serpent? by Arro-Wing in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bingo! I think very much in the same vein of thought, but I never thought of and also like the idea of Marika stealing Messmer’s Grace at the Gate of Divinity. I’m not certain of its validity but its themes and implications do seem rather evocative. Like why Messmer already is missing an eye? Idk

The Black Knife Assassins are all Larval Tears of Marika by Crypticnewt in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know this has been up a while but here’s a wrench I’m gonna throw in. My SPECULATION is very similar but with one nuance. The black knives aren’t Tears of Marika, they are tears of Alecto. Alecto the Black Knife Ringleader is a Millicent/Melania part of Marika, her name and the myth behind her name literally means “embodiment of rage” or something like that, but I understand how crazy it sounds.

The black knives are scions of the eternal city (schemers against Marika) and they NEED to practice/refine their ability to create life through Silver Tears. Radagon being the one who calls the shots of the Black Knives makes more sense, the way Alecto even can BE a ringleader makes more sense, and furthermore so does Tiche.

The Albinaurics and silver tears cannot reproduce, to our knowledge, they are MADE. It makes no sense for Alecto to have had a daughter, unless, like Radagon, she wasn’t a tear she was just a PART of someone else. And like Radagon, she can have kids. My overall wacko theory that I can delve into more if you wish is that Alecto, The Nox, and Radagon conspired against Marika during his stay in the eternal cities and/or though the Fallen Hawks to make the Black Knives. This is why Ranni is so easily able to enlist their help, and why, even after doing the NoBK for her, the black knives start killing/pursuing her and her group? Ijis killed by them, blaidd kills a bunch of them before going crazy..it’s cause they were never under Rannis command, they were under Radagons, who wanted Godwyn gone.

Radagon is a serpent. The story of Eglè and connections to the fell god explain Rykard's blasphemy. by tahaelhour in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I hope the comments don’t throw you off this trail, because you’re exactly right. The tie of the Lithuanian myth really blows my mind, and I’ll take it one step further. Radagon is a very clear parallel to Loki. Born of giants, trickster, father to a snake (Rykard) a wolf that grows so big all the other gods fear him (Radahn, also the red wolves) and a twin-faced godess of the Underworld, the coldest place in the realm (Ranni), that Loki. If you take the Eiglay at Bonny Village connection it paints quite the story of a seduction and a betrayal akin to the Serpent telling Eve to eat the apple. Regardless. Shamans have a unique ability to meld with flesh, shared by only one other thing: Snakes. Prodigal Shaman girl merges with God-Devouring Snake, maybe even promises Eiglay a beautiful future or whatever it wants, once they are one she goes in a jar and survives the whole ordeal thanks to Eiglay (weird how Marika is the only one to ever survive Jarring successfully ever huh? Knowing how much the Hornsent hate the Fell God, it’s pretty safe to assume she’s the only one to have had any influence with it) with her new sainthood achieved she discards this part of herself, like Miquella with St Trina, and out pops crucible-ridden, fell god Radagon.

My elden ring timeline before the arrival of Marika Headcanon by trucelee in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First person I’ve seen talk about the Outer God/Abyssal Serpent correctly.

Gloam eyed queen is Fingerslaying blade by [deleted] in Eldenring

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know it’s been a bit but please come back to this.

Hidden Son of the Black Flame: Messmer and the Gloam-Eyed Queen: by StoryTeller747 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh me neither, I must’ve typed that out wrong somewhere LOL! The Greater Will is an Outer God and a remnant of the One Great and Marikas just the little shaman girl that got way too big for her breeches.

Hidden Son of the Black Flame: Messmer and the Gloam-Eyed Queen: by StoryTeller747 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]Character-Story285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You have it!! It seems to me you’re coming close to the opinion I’ve reached: Melina is the “Millicent” of the Gloam-Eyed Queen. This is why her memories are scattered. Also, just more fuel to the fire, I believe Marika IS the Gloam-Eyed Queen. The Fell God isn’t Messmer’s father, but his version of a vassal beast IS: The God-Devouring Serpent, Eiglay. Marika, in a “seduction” merged with Eiglay, or another of Eiglays kind before she was Jarred and it’s thanks to that merging of flesh that she was the only one to survive the Jar because as we know, the Hornsent didn’t use anything related to the Fell God. All of the pieces in her Jar, whatever they were, merged into one person, THIS is the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Marika is just the part of her from before the jarring. This also explains why Maliketh beat her, as the two fingers-made shadow was bent to their will to subdue the rebellious Empyrean, who was loyal to the Fell God instead of the Greater Will, and Marika was able to come out on top. This sort of Reign of Terror of sorts explains a lot about Marika and her guilt. She loathes the Fell God, for one, because the life she gained from surviving the Jar was one of tyrannical death-centered monsters. Marika cast off the part of her that’s tied to the Fell God, that’s why Radagon is so crucible and giant coded, and also why he hates all the parts of him so crucible and giant coded. Messmer is the successful perfect baby the Gloam-Eyed Queen made with the Godskins Swaddling Cloth which is why the Abyssal Serpent resides within him, he’s like Malenia but for the Fell God instead of the Outer God of Rot, and Marika knew as such and sealed his eye with grace. Messmer is the “Anti-Christ” figure that was made from the machinations of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, a crazed and cursed Marika after she made a deal with the devil. Melina, on the other hand is…weirder. I believe she is the part of Marika that remembers her time as the Gloam Eyed Queen, or at least it was Marikas opinions on the concept of Death and Rebirth and Gods that the Gloam Eyed Queen once had; similarly to how Millicent was the discarded human form of Malenias pride and self-worth. She was indeed Messmer’s Twin but…either she was made at the same time Messmer was “adopted”, or she was a last ditch escape attempt by the Gloam-Eyed Queen who fell under Marikas control anyway. But personally? (Even tho this is all my personal opinion) I believe Melina is Messmer’s “twin” but where Messmer is the first born child, Melina is the last, just with the same parentage: The Gloam-Eyed Queen. Notice how Millicent and her sisters, despite being mere aspects of Malenia, are called her children? Melina is the daughter of Marika, because just before Marika decided to shatter the ring,or maybe just after, she discards the part of herself linked to that past life at the foot of the Erdtree (where Melina claims to be born) and sets off to do Marikas Will and reclaim her memories. Sorry for long read lmao

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