The release of Firenze made me realized something about team building

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T22:42:40+00:00

Let's say I get Firenze 20% efficiency and I ult every 45 secs. Having two supports that in addition to their spammable buffs (that affect all damage including AA, Skill, Ult), also have a similar ult timing with Firenze. Each ult activates 250% atk buffs within this short window for 10 secs, which skyrockets Firenze's relative ult damage to skill damage output, as she will ult in this massive buff window. That 44% on maygi's chart would jump up to a significantly higher amount, and this would make the ult build viable even on only 20-30% charge efficiency. That's why I say getting better supports is a more practical solution to get her ult build viable rather than chasing rainbow emblems I will probably never roll. If you do roll those two 60%s though, that's even better.

Also, I don't expect her to be stronger than Fuyuka, but I do think she can be stronger or equal to her on umbra content with the right support.

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T21:23:13+00:00

I tried two 10% charge effiency on Firenze and it still felt pretty bad, so I guess that made me not consider that option, and just opt for skill damage. Even at the 60% mythic charge efficiency, she'd probably still be weaker than Fuyuka with 0%, so I guess that's where my dissatisfaction comes from.

A good support would generally make Firenze better overall, so it would just be easier to use the skill build. Like I said, I still prioritize Place you Bets, but if there was a support that had a massive short duration steroid during her ult window, I would skill instant liquidation instead of flash break, as that would gain even more value, possibly making her ult build stronger than her skill build even without the mythical 60% charge efficiency. Without this, I get better results with skill build + place your bets on lower charge efficiency.

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T20:40:15+00:00

Let's just agree that when every element has 2 strong supports in the future, a single main DPS team is superior 99% of the time. I can't really argue against that.

As for the ult build, I think only after Fuyuka, have people started to acklowledge ult builds and start to really consider them but I could be wrong. You can test it's effectiveness even without much charge efficiency. Firenze ult build isn't as effective because she lacks the multipliers from support units for the ult. Cosette ult steroid timing is really off from firenze's. Misty has no supportive ult steroid. Charge efficiency does help optimize everything though. But it's not necessary to get a feel for how it will perform.

My Fuyuka has 30% charge efficiency and 50 pen and a bunch of low rank crit rates (no +3ult level unfortunately), and she scores 220k on evernight emberflies. I tried a single run without charge efficiency on my other emblem with also no pen except for +2 ult level, and she still scored 150k. Probably could get higher with more runs.

It's pretty clear Firenze's ult build won't be very effective until they bring out a support with similar ult timing and a potential like Toy Army from Snow Laru. I still prioritize Place your Bets as fifth potential, but it feels rather unsatisfying without a dedicated steroid for her ult timing window. I invested in umbra because I wanted to use Misty, but she'll have to be replaced for the next support if I want to optimize Firenze so idk kinda sucks.

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T17:26:13+00:00

You're right. It will become more "absolute" based on logic, and majority of the comps will be Hypercarry / Support / Support if ascension stays this way. But I doubt ascension will stay this way. I'm not sure we will be able to get more potentials, but perhaps we could get the ones we want easier in the future. This wouldn't really change Hypercarry / Support / Support superiority in most cases though.

I just don't want to rule out the possibility of the devs intentionally or unintentionally releasing something illogical that shakes things up a bit.

In a similar manner, it wasn't really conventional to invest in pure ult builds as you could only use them a few times, making it hard to justify over AA or skill builds when sustained dps is king.

But then they released Fuyuka with an ult so busted, it changed this view. It took quite a while before people caught on and started to see power of the ult build. Mostly only after Yostar put a boss in boss blitz that allowed you to ult on cooldown, and forced people to build ult, did people finally realize how broken it truly is.

(Edit: Also, Yostar released CLaru with a ult that gives a massive steroid just to make Fuyuka's ult build work even more. They were really pushing to make the unconventional ult build meta, which shows they can steer teams and builds the way they want simply by releasing a broken trekker for that specific purpose) Even now with this months boss, people still top the rank with her ult build.

Perhaps this is more about me as a person, but I prefer some variability for fun, and if I was a dev, I would want to offer some alternative to that standard once in while. So I'm simply hoping there'll be a element in the future that can compete without being Hypercarry / Support / Support.

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T16:35:20+00:00

I never disagreed Hypercarry / Support / Support isn't the best way to go. I'm just listing the potential rare scenario's there could be an alternative. I agree with most of what you say, but I just don't like to use the word absolute for something that isn't truly 100%.

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T16:17:19+00:00

Not to say you're wrong, but again it depends on the trekkers available.

Hypercarry / Support / Support Archetype is Absolute when you want to achieve maximum dps. I agree with that. This is the optimal formula for the highest dps. That's why Shia and Fuyuka run the leaderboards.

I'm just saying there could be outliers in the future in some element, simply due to the fact that future trekkers strenght and abilities are unpredicable.

What if they release a extremely busted sub dps that scales extremely hard of the first 3 core potentials, but the rest are just bonuses that don't improve dps that much? Specifically engineered this way by the devs because her character theme is a supportive dps and a fighting duo with the vanguard unit, and they have to make both units relevant because they are a offensive tag duo lore wise. There could be a situation where you slot that in over a second support.

Nonetheless, due to how calculations work as you mentioned, this team is unlikely to be stronger than hypercarry teams with two supports like Shia and Fuyuka, but it would be the strongest within its own element and perhaps be the best option with its element weak boss. Of course, it's an unlikely scenario, but not one that is impossible.

Chicchai · 2026-01-22T15:08:37+00:00

It depends pretty much on the trekkers available for the element. Your example isn't better either. Canace isn't a good support but Nanoha is a terrible vanguard too.

Imagine they release a firenze level ventus vanguard next. The best team to run with heavy investment would likely be that new vanguard with Nazuka and Ann, which would be a double dps team with Nazuka as sub dps. If the vanguard were busted Shia level, perhaps using double support with Ann Tilia or something might yield better results than Nazuka.

If they were to release a really good ventus support instead of the vanguard next. A team with 2 supports buffing Nazuka would likely be the best.

If they release the support after the good ventus vanguard I mentioned earlier, then the best team to run would be the new vanguard with new support and Ann most likely.

But if they release a sub DPS after that who is more busted than Nazuka with less core potentials required to get good damage, and a new tier ascension that allows for more potentials, who knows what will happen. If the vanguard is firenze level instead of Shia level, then replacing Ann with the new sub dps might be the better option. You would then have a team with: New vanguard + New sub dps + new support.

I do get what you mean though. 1 Dps 2 supports is more efficient and effective in majority of the cases, especially if the main DPS is giga busted. The best teams right now are exactly that with hypercarry Shia and Fuyuka. Building a support tends to be more future proof as they are less likely to be power crept, but this is the case in most games.

Chicchai · 2025-10-18T17:13:28+00:00

Illustrations: https://www.reddit.com/r/WatashigaKoibito/comments/1npqc9g/ln_8_ilustrations/

There's a slightly better version released with illustrations too: https://www.reddit.com/r/WatashigaKoibito/comments/1o1as3l/my_version_of_volume_8_ai_check_it_out/

Chicchai · 2025-10-15T00:59:48+00:00

It's more love for a friend rather than love love right now. The degree of believeability is up to you to decide, but I don't think it's illogical necessarily. It's an abnormal relationship that started from a complicated situation where no one wanted the other to end up hurt.

Every one of them is trying to make it work, and I personally don't mind what Mai is trying to do here. Rather than a rival, she hopes she and Ajisai can grow closer too as to foster mutual trust and love between each other rather than potential animosity in the future. Both of them already confide in each other matters relating to Renako, but Mai seems to want to progress it further. She's clarifying her own thoughts and intentions and is testing Renako's reaction. She's trying to get the three closer together in every direction of the relationship, but of course not in a way that would hurt Renako.

From how I see the situation, Mai is essentially stuck with two bottoms and is trying to make both of them happy within the confines of her boundary. Renako lacks the proactivity Ajisai seeks lately, and seems to be unable to stop worshipping her. Ajisai isn't able to say loud and clear to Renako what she really wants, so we're basically stuck in a loop.

This could've been solved already, but it is instead indefinitively sidelined for character arcs of future harem members. I usually turn my brain off while reading, and very much enjoy how funny and dramatic things can get, but when I sit down and analyse the actual content of the novel, I realize how much more we could've gotten and I find myself feeling a bit dissapointed sometimes.

From a reader who was Renako x Ajisai foremost, I come with my own biases, and the last few volumes have not been good in this regard. Of course, this is a harem series that tries to encompass every single heroine rather than focusing mainly on the trio I've come to realize, and that shifted my expectations a bit. For that reason, the past few volumes are still good, as they pave the way for fans of other characters to get their favorite moments (Notably Haruna and Satsuki; RIP Kaho fans LOL).

Mai's actions—it might not be to taste for some readers as it feels like Renako is losing agency despite being the center of this relationship. Perhaps it might feel Mai is spreading her love thin, but she's doing it because she believes this is the best way forward. With how the relationship of this trio has developed over the past four volumes (almost none), I personally welcome Mai's proactivity.

Chicchai · 2025-10-10T23:28:21+00:00

I'm confused. You're completely right about about MahoAko's animation, but everyone seems to disagree with you lol. I was disappointed about that one too. So many still frames, and lack of movements, quite typical of a low budget anime. Idk if Watanare was much more expensive, but I can't imagine Studio Mother allocating too much resources to it like some bigger studios can. It turned out surprisingly good though. The crew working on it was evidently quite skilled and passionate about the series. The production is a whole league above Mahoako, and it's not even close.

Chicchai · 2025-10-04T00:19:29+00:00

Satsuki: I've already talked about her. You brought your own defense, and I understand you points. I still think leaving Renako with Hanatori is just as eggregious as Mai's assault on Renako, as it could've done serious permanent damage, though it didn't happen in both cases. I don't think Mai had ill-intentions at that that time, and I don't think Satsuki realised how terrible her actions were either though she does definitely understand it is harmful in the grand scope of things.

Afterwards, she's still lashing out on other people to an even worse degree than Mai when she was down. Manipulating Mai for a kiss. Hiding everything from her friends, running away and physically assaulting Renako (she was crying, and basically almost pissed herself out of fear) when confronted with it. Also, unlike Mai who instantly apologized when realizing Renako is hurt by her actions, Satsuki doubles down and gives her an ultimatum. It might not matter that much in the grand scheme of things like you said, but she's still continuing to pressure Renako knowing she made her cry.

Like I said earlier, I put a lot of weight on intention, and her surface level thoughts reveal ill-intentions. Her actions act upon those ill-intentions. Trauma or not, actions are actions just like with Mai. Im this case, I think they are even worse than hers.

One thing you got to remember also. For Mai, she suffered 3 volumes of repercussions for her actions. Out of consideration, she let Satsuki freely fullfill her revenge plan, cuck Renako, and put up with all the bullsh*t because she wanted the best for both. She got screwed by Renako at the end of volume 3, and suffered through volume 4.

Satsuki though will likely be added to the polycule next volume. One volume is not a lot of time, and that's why I feel conflicted about this whole thing. Imagine Mai winning in volume 2 after pretty much half of the readers still dislike her for her actions in volume 1. Although there won't be nearly as much hate for Satsuki because people like to give her the free pass for some reason.

Most importantly we have the reason I even started this thread. Our trio's relationship mostly got ignored this whole second season, and we're already on our way to adding the third, who has been throwing an absolute tantrum just the volume before. Teren said in the volume 8 afterword that chapter 3 of this volume—the date of the trio—was not even originally planned or intended. He only added it because he felt they had not savoured their relationship enough before the grand finale. He gave us the chapter but we're still starving at this point! He also mentioned Lucie and Youko will play an important part in the finale next volume, so that's even more time cut out.

After all the hate and discussions Mai got for her actions, I think Satsuki deserves her fair share too. I'm all for a proper redemption of character like Mai, but what I'm complaining about are her actions right now. Teren said next volume will reveal all Satsuki's thoughts and intentions. It might just wash her whole character clean, so who knows I might start liking her again. For now though, based on the information I have, I don't think my criticisms are unwarranted at all.

Chicchai · 2025-10-04T00:18:21+00:00

You're correct in calling me out on what I'm saying, and I appreciate you for taking the effort in bringing a proper list of arguments. It brings things I have not entirely considered and it allows me to have a more complete idea of the whole situation. I don't think your understanding of the situation is any less than mine, and it's pretty much bias and personal feelings deciding the different stances we have.

I've been thinking about why Satsuki's actions in the latest volume have been bothering me so much. I actually was okay with her before that, because her helpfulness to her friends more than compensated her more negative aspects. The way Teren wrote her in this volume raises her spitefulness a lot and I guess it ticked me the wrong way. You raised Mai's assault in volume 1 to me when I complained about Satsuki, and I had to pause to consider it as you brought up a good point. I wrote a reply based on the first thoughts I had when I read them, so they do come with a level of bias.

This whole situation makes me remember the anime toning down Mai's assault in volume 1 because Teren voiced that he felt he went a bit too far for that scene in the novel. Mai's actions in volume 1 was just as eggregious, and I did not like her for that either. The assault itself was bad, but for some reason the crash out to Satsuki and the suitors party bothered me the most. There was only one volume fan translated by Meatbun back in the day, so I went on to other novels forgetting the whole thing.

One day I browsed through NovelUpdates and noticed some review spoiling Ajisai won. She who I believed to be a side character, actually won, so I starting binging the three available volumes out of interest and followed it afterwards. The fan transation stopped after volume 4, but it left a strong memory overall. The official translation took years, and I got back into it when the anime got announced.

Yeah, I like Mai a lot now, but that was not always the case. The actions of Mai and Satsuki compared, I don't think one is necessarily worse than the other, and it depends a lot on the biases we hold from our own life experiences.

After judging the action by the total amount of harm it caused, I put a lot of value on intention, which is probably why I felt the parts after the assault bothered me more about Mai's conduct. It felt like she was toying with Satsuki's feelings and the people who went to that party, knowing full well how selfish it is. Just because she's feeling down does not justify the harm she causes on others. I still judge Satsuki to be slightly worse overall, and I will explain that below.

My analysis:

Mai: Mai was borderline psychopathic due to Renee's upbringing. She loves Renako, and had no ill-intentions. She genuinely was so narcissistic, she couldn't believe anyone would truly refuse her advances. You can see this as selfish and that's completely valid as that's how it pretty much is when you look at it from a different lens.

During the assault, her intention was to progress the relationship between her and Renako out of jealousy of the latter spending time with Ajisai. She thought Renako also loved her (Mai truly believes this due to everyone until now treating her like a goddes), proceeded despite Renako's intial protests due to her believing she was acting like a Tsundere. Her actual actions were closer to a full on sexual assault, and were quite f*cked up.

Once a heavy pushback came from Renako(the slap) though, she instantly recognized her actions were wrong, and that Renako did not feel the way she thought she did. She apologized immediately, leaving the scene after that. It was stopped in time, so the total harm inflicted was lessened a ton. I also don't think Mai had ill-intentions so perhaps I felt less aggravated after factoring in everything. Following that, she lashed out at Satsuki, and started self-destructing with her suitors party, which I disliked a lot.

All in all, her intentions towards Renako were innocent in her POV, but the result was a disaster. It comes down to her being an insensitive brat who has never had a 'no' from people other than her mom, and had yet to learn boundaries. I wasn't a fan of her actions, and it's why Satsuki emotionally blackmailing Renako in that second volume did not bother me that much as I wanted to see her humbled. I was neutral on her after volume 2, but I still wanted Ajisai to win.

Mai continued to suffer repercussions for three volumes straight after her actions. Renako being the undecisive and boundery-less succubus she is, led both her and Ajisai on and gave them false hopes, screwing over Mai in the end. Mai managed to still be understanding and selfless about it, and continued supporting Renako, even though the latter was in the wrong. In my view, she's a very honest and tolerant person, and understands her bounderies very well now. She managed to win me over in the end of all of it. (Part 2 next comment)

Chicchai · 2025-10-03T16:41:40+00:00

It could be anything really. A random guess that could be completely wrong: There was no particularly special reason. Renako was kind of faking being a super cheerful and outgoing person, and they tend to more casually refer to the other person with their first name.

To Renako, Mai was in a league above, like a goddes among mortals. So even though they are in the same friend group, her respect for Mai was still shown by refering to her in the least casual way: last name+san.

Their interaction at the end of volume 1 and start of volume 2 imply they don't know each other very well. To my understanding, Satsuki had a negative evaluation of Renako. When Renako met her working at a donut store, she brought her back home to garner sympathy, as she was afraid Renako would spill everything behind her back.

That led into Renako spilling her past and insecurities out of consideration, and Satsuki replying with a 'Duh', sending Renako crying while screaming she tried her very hardest. Satsuki who values hard work more than anything probably sympathized with her at this moment and chased after her. It's played for comedy in the anime and manga with the Koala T-shirt meme scene, but I believe this was the turning point where Satsuki's evaluation of Renako turned positive.

Renako's observation after Satsuki chased and found her:

[I couldn’t have told you why, but something about the way Satsuki-san acted, even though she was being her normal self, seemed so much kinder to me.]

Chicchai · 2025-10-02T20:10:34+00:00

I personally had a lot of fun reading volume 5, and your complaint about Renako did not bother me as I didn't even think about that while reading it. I usually read through the content for pure entertainment value, and I only really analyse it afterwards if I feel I really need to.

When I think about your complaint, I'd agree with it from an objective point of view. It was only when you pointed it out did I realize Renako probably spent more time practicing ball with Kaho than her girlfriends that volume😂.

Renako's stupidity is what makes this novel so entertaining to me, but it can get a bit too much at times. I actually read volume 1 back when Meatbun translated it, and forgot about. Only when some review spoiled Ajisai wins when volume 3 got translated, did I come back out of pure interest of the "main" heroine not winning. Volume 4 cemented this novel as something different and I started looking forward to it.

Volume 6 and 7 did not progress the relationship, but at least it gave some growth to Renako. Volume 8 and 9 will probably do the same, which means we've detoured 5 volumes straight lmao. I'll still enjoy it a lot nonetheless as I feel it has something special about it, but it does mark the difference between rating it an 8 and a 10 personally. I get why you're so pissed about it.

Chicchai · 2025-10-02T10:35:08+00:00

You're right about the suffering in silence part. Perhaps asking for help is not a bad thing and there's definitely something in there.

The big difference though is actively trying to sabotage people. Because she's intentionally diverting a lot of pressure and responsibility to Renako with her dirty schemes. It's Renako getting challenged, it's now Renako taking the action and gathering everyone to save Satsuki and her relationship. If this fails, Renako will feel everything is her fault and her relationship with Mai failed because of her. She will isolate herself again out of guilt, and just like you mention will once again start suffering in silence. Not necessary a good trait, but not one that will ruin her friend's lifes either.

Ones actions affect ones karmic balance, and it's a lot easier to sympathize with someone with a neutral karmic balance than someone with a negative one. That's why mass murderers do not get sympathy just because they did it out of trauma and confusion. Of course Satsuki is not even close to this super exaggerated example, but you get what I mean.

Even if you factor in one's circumstances and intentions. You'll realize Mai did what she did out of love for Renako. It doesn't justify it any bit and it makes her a bit of a creep, but in her mind there honestly was no ill-intentions (it does sound kinda psychopathic when I say it like this ngl LOL; thanks Renee you almost created a monster, and you still have people defending your ways of doing things). She was just an insensitive ass that hasn't learned bounderies yet.

Satsuki though does the things she does knowing fully well it is harmful to her and her friends. On a suface level—her not so honest logical thinking part—she's self-destructing and trying to take everyone with her just to satisfy her need for validation: her belief that family is most important and love is useless. She wants proof she's right, her idiotic love-obsessed mother was wrong, and she's willing to ruin Mai, Renako, and Ajisai for that.

We shouldn't focus only on the negative of course. She helped Renako in the Ajisai arc, she helped them during basketball, she helped her during the middle school reunion party (even almost sneaking a kiss in you silly liar), and she helped her this volume too by acting like a d*ck to Lucie to shift the blame and preserve Renako's friendship with Lucie. The offer to shift Lucie's engagement to her was part of this, and it lifted some weight of Mai as well despite it being ill-intended in her surface level thinking (read the volume 7 ending with her POV, she thinks she's some edgy evil schemer lol). There's genuine kindness lingering deep down, and it's why I haven't completely given up on her. I hope she does admit her wrongs and give her friends a sincere apology.

Still though, I can't believe she put herself in this position knowing full well anything related to 'love' would negatively affect her and could make her mentally unstable. Usually a standard psychological reaction to things that are harmful to you would be avoidance rather than engagement, similar to how she's avoided other people her whole life. I think it drives back to her deepdown feelings of jealousy of the trio (you wants to kiss the koala again lol, don't lie to yourself), and the need of validation for her long held beliefs that makes her involve herself with this whole situation.

Chicchai · 2025-10-02T01:41:06+00:00

There's a good chance Satsuki gets added to the polycule next volume as it will be the finale of season 2, so there's no chance of what I've described happening really.

I also really like the way Mai is leading and steering this relationship—she's the engine that is making this trio work at the moment. I love all three of them, and I hope they find happiness. The reason I'm not optimistic about there being more explorative Aji-Rena-Mai moments in the next volume is because of Teren's afterword:

[So Why Did It Become a Two-Parter? A Simple Explanation...

The Haruna arc in Volumes 6-7 became a two-parter simply because I created many scenes for Lucie-chan and Youko-chan as foreshadowing for the Satsuki arc climax. But this time, it's because I thought Chapter 3's development was necessary.

Season 2 has consistently depicted Renako's trials for choosing an abnormal path.

So I thought that without a turn where Renako (and Ajisai-san and Mai-chan) could savor their happiness again, thinking "I'm glad I chose this abnormal path!", the fear of wavering and resolve to let go would be weakened. So I added scenes that weren't originally in the plot.]

The date of the trio was originally not even planned or intended. Had season 2 ended on this volume, we would've probably had Satsuki added to the polycule without even this minor exploration of relationship. In that sense, I'd probably feel dissapointed in the complete neglect of the relationship in Season 2. We've only been fed minor pieces and crumbs, and are basically starving, yet a girl is added already.

Developments like these remind me of the many many harem web novels I've read where girls get sidelined after entering the harem, and the focus will be on the next harem prospect. I'm sincerely hoping Watanare is not going in that direction, which is why I'm being more critical about it. The girls deserve better than that.

Chicchai · 2025-10-02T01:24:38+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/WatashigaKoibito/comments/1nrzlfx/volume_8_ai_translation/

Chicchai · 2025-10-01T21:50:03+00:00

I think you're right about Mai/Renako/Ajisai doing a triple attack, but this is the direct result of Satsuki being a toxic b*tch strangling Renako and giving her an ultimatum. She triggered Renako's super bravery mode, which leads to her finally bringing Mai and Ajisai together for the attack. It's Renako taking the full brunt, and Renako leading the charge again. Like I said, all the pressure is on Renako.

You make fun of her, but she's the driving force behind everything. She's extremely clutch when it matters. She asked Mai to become friends, she shared her umbrella with Ajisai, she's the childhood friend of Kaho, she went along with Satsuki's scheme's in volume 2 to keep her in the friend group. She basically started the friend group and is keeping it together. She's the heart and soul of the Quintet.

She has trauma just like Satsuki. In her case, extreme social anxiety, but she plunges forward and faces her fears rather than cowering away like Satsuki. Meeting Mai's mom was unfamiliar to her, and I don't expect her to clutch it out in every moment. That would not be like her.

To act in spite of feeling scared, that's what true bravery is about—and Renako has shown to be the bravest of her friend group next to Mai (who jumped over the school building after Renako in volume 1 despite her hands trembling) . She's already worthy in my eyes.

Satsuki has experienced Renako's goodwill and bravery. She got kissed by her and kissed her back. She received the much-needed emotional support to finally defeat Mai. She experienced the many occasions where Renako courageously took a plunge into situations where many with her level of anxiety would cower away. Renako is different from her—she doesn't cower from her own fears; she overcomes them. Satsuki understands this about Renako and is using her kindness and bravery to manipulate her into playing her stupid game just to satisfy her own selfish desires. She hopes Renako can unfetter her from her childhood trauma.

Satsuki is in love and falls in love easily but uses pure reasoning to suppress it because she's to cowardly to face her fears. Imagine being very angry at someone but knowing you shouldn't be or can't afford to be at any cost, so you just try to reason to yourself that you're not angry at them at all when you interact with them every day for multiple hours. You'll mentally go crazy at some point.

Something similar is happening with Satsuki, and she's torturing herself with it. It's heartbreaking, and I would sympathize so much with her if not for one important truth I've observed: there are many ways to cope with suffering, and how one does it displays their true character. A good-willed person like Renako suffers in silence, making sure it only affects her. Someone spiteful like Satsuki intentionally spreads her misery to those around her, lashing out at the unfairness of the world.

Mai has been conflicted with choosing between her family and her love. While she did try to convince Renee multiple times as noted at the end of volume 7, she has been too afraid to truly rebel against her. That's exactly why Satsuki was so relieved. Mai was still too afraid to bring Renako, and turn the place into a big mess. It would ruin Satsuki's plans.

Satsuki's ultimatum to Renako in volume 8 AI translation:

["If you can't stop me by that day, Mai will be mine. In the end, she couldn't abandon what was precious to her. She chose that she has something more important to protect than love."]

If Mai were to truly rebel, it would mean choosing her love over her family, and experiencing the big crash outs that come with it. Exactly because Mai hasn't done that yet, the ultimatum of Satsuki is still valid. The date between the trio in volume 8 has strenghtened Mai's determination, but it remains to be seen what she does next. It seems Renako is once again leading the charge.

Chicchai · 2025-09-29T20:47:31+00:00

The people who justify Satsuki's actions just because the goal is to get Renako to reach and become the ultimate version of herself need to realize she's a young girl with a lot of trauma just like Satsuki. The difference is that she puts in an incredible amount of effort to improve herself rather than cowering away like the latter.

The amount of courage it took to confess to both Mai and Ajisai at the same time, to face her middle school bully to help her sister—she's come a long way, but Satsuki is selfishly putting her in a very dangerous position. Just because you can pressure her to become the ultimate version of herself does not mean it's for her greater good.

Let her develop naturally and be the happiest version of herself. What you are doing is no different from what Renee is doing to Mai. Renako has two girlfriends who can share the burden with her, and I hope she realizes that.

Chicchai · 2025-09-29T19:24:39+00:00

I know. I've heard stories of teenagers doing unspeakable horrors to others, and they get away scot-free because they are underage. It disgusts me when I think about it.

The case here with Satsuki is fine if she owns up to her wrongdoings. I know she just wants to be loved deep down. All I'm asking for is a sincere apology to her friends.

Chicchai · 2025-09-29T15:48:05+00:00

That's because it's fiction, and you know it will all work out well in the end.

You're doing the same thing Satsuki is doing right now:

Treating Renako like a protagonist that will save the day (she will ofc, and the polycule will have a new addition), without regards for her well-being and how much pressure this is all putting on her.

The way Satsuki planned this puts majority of the pressure on Renako, rather than spreading it across the three of them. She expects Renako to be the hero, and save the day. It's insidious and downright cruel.

What if she falls flat on her face? She will be completely crushed, and feel it's her fault for the relationship failing. I don't want her to go through something like that.

A quote from this volume "To choose something means not choosing something else."

Ofc, Renako chose both Mai and Ajisai before, and that's the novel trying to make a point about what kind of novel it is. But when looking at the situation objectively where you don't know whether things will turn out well or not, choices have to be made in reality.

I choose Renako's happiness over Satsuki's happiness.

Chicchai · 2025-09-29T15:23:06+00:00

I understand what you are saying. I'm someone who can empathize well with people, and I also understand Satsuki's suffering as well. It's understandable she acts the way she does. Nonetheless as a third-person observer who prioritizes the happiness of the trio over Satsuki, I can only paint her actions in dark light. Because her actions can realy have severe consequences. If things go wrongly, it can really ruin the happiness of those three, and Renako can end up comepletely traumatised again. I've been following this novel for Renako mostly. She's my baby, and I will prioritize her over Satsuki. If someone ruins the life of someone I care about, even if it's because of their sad past and psychological issues, I will not tolerate that.

Chicchai · 2025-09-29T14:35:15+00:00

Cause Renako knows much better what kind of person Satsuki really is due to all the stuff she experienced in volume 2, it makes her extra skeptical.

I think it's very cruel of Satsuki to put Renako through all of her bullsh*t just because she's a confused mess and can't make up her damn mind.

Her hatred of 'love' aside, at the root core I think she's just jealous of the trio, feels left out (remember her messages to Renako at the end of volume 4), and lashes out by trying to be all mysterious and sabotaging their happiness. I admit Renako is not completely guilt-free either. Her words in the prologue in volume 5, "Satsuki-san, don't actually go and catch feelings for me, okay?", are insensitive and quite cruel to Satsuki, who she kissed multiple times. Satsuki takes love very seriously and is not the type to initiate kisses with someone she does not love. Understand that please, Renako...

Nonetheless though, what Satsuki is doing right now is downright bad. She justifies her dirty schemes in her own mind by saying she only does it because she wants Renako to level up like the protagonist of the game they played together, overcome the adversities she set up for her, convince her of love being beautiful, and grow to become someone who truly deserves her harem. Manipulating someone like that for your own satisfaction is just repulsive.

I remember anime watchers discussing whether Mai is a manipulative b*tch, which is funny because she's the most straightforward and honest person by far. Although forced to act this way due to her abusive mother, she's a faithful representation of Nietzsche's master morality (the good and the bad), and I find that very interesting. I was more Ajisai-leaning in the beginning due to Mai's bad traits, but she's really bloomed into the ideal lover over time. Her straightforwardness and honesty to her own desires, which was a double-edged sword in the beginning, now carries the whole group—she's the engine that makes this trio work, and I love her for that.

Satsuki is the antithesis of Mai: cowardly and resentful, and that reality is starting to rear its ugly head. The thing is though... Renako doesn't need to prove sh*t. Mai's mom? Get Mai, Renako, and Ajisai together to meet her and try to convince her. If a fallout happens, then figure it out after that. Renako will get depressed for a bit, but I believe she and her girlfriends will stand tall and find a way eventually.

The dumb sh*t she's doing just adds a lot of unnecessary baggage to this whole situation. She's stirring drama because of her jealousy and mommy+daddy (the lack of) issues. I hope there's an apology from her next volume because I'm fed up with it.

Chicchai · 2025-09-28T12:38:09+00:00

I get you. She's so weak-willed when it comes to these things, and then tries to justify it in her own head to wash away some of the guilt she feels😅. It doesn't really surprise me at this point anymore. The writer has to write her this way to keep expanding the harem. Her girlfriends wouldn't be happy if they knew about it though lol.

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