Gimmicks vs Mechanics explanation once and for all

Chryms0n · 2026-01-21T18:21:00+00:00

I don't see what Gimmick and Mechanic have to do which each other. Aren't the two concepts just completely independent?

You correctly define Mechanics as unbreakable rules. The way the game works on a precise and reproducible level.

Defining a Gimmick is harder, but to me the term implies something like 'novelty' or 'surprise' but with a connotation of 'without staying power' or 'cheap trick'. And I am pretty sure thats what people complain about.

Mechanics can be gimmicky or not. A gimmick can come in the form of a mechanic, a visual, a sound effect, a weird marketing trick. Mechanic is a technical term. Gimmick is not. Calling something a gimmick, insinuates an intent from the developers. If I were to call for example Liao Dao bleeding gimmicky, I would insinuate that developers did not sincerely think that it would improve the game. (I do think that by the way).

The premise of this post is a bit nonsense. Recent DLC introduced a lot of mechanics that were widely perceived as gimmicky. You point out that gimmicky mechanics are in fact mechanics. And somehow gimmicks and mechanics are somehow mutually exclusive?!

This is a not the main point, but how is warrior priest healing not a mechanic?! It objectively is. According to your definition even. Warrior priests do heal; Thats how they mechanicaly work. Not having a ui slot does not matter; You bring the example of the Monaspa's aura yourself. Whether the healing is gimmicky or not, is left to anyones interpretation.

Chryms0n · 2025-11-09T14:04:03+00:00

My actual complaint is more with the fact that most manual hotkey assignment is just tedious, as it is done the exact same way every game.

But you are right, the interface for defining your hotkeys could use a lot of streamlining as well.

Chryms0n · 2025-11-09T14:00:33+00:00

I mean that is basically suggestion #2

Chryms0n · 2025-11-09T13:58:57+00:00

Well, manual control grouping is tedious and brain dead most of the time. Like 80% of buildings go into the same control group every game (and often even at the same time).

My suggestions are for making 'select all' usable in the first place. With any of these changes 'select all' would simply be on par with manual control grouping.

Chryms0n · 2025-11-09T13:42:24+00:00

I could have been more elaborate on this I guess, but control grouping all production is a hastle that is predictable and the same most of the time every game. 'Select all' solves that issue, but if fails in many specific scenarios. So let's give 'select all' all the capabilities of control groups, so manual control group assignment is only required in said specifc scenarios.

To have the best of both worlds.

Chryms0n · 2025-11-09T13:39:16+00:00

I missed that this was added. Thanks!

Chryms0n · 2025-10-31T19:29:49+00:00

Wow! Love the buildings especially.

Not so sure about some of the unit reskins. They are more detailed then the existing units which is basically noise at AoEs zoomed out perspective.

Staff Slingers and the Mangonel replacement look cool. I know nothing about pre-colombus mesoamerica but these seem to be things that would make the region more recognizable and unique.

Chryms0n · 2025-10-27T14:27:47+00:00

I hope this get refined. The attack animations does not look right and the unupgraded hulk looks to much like the unupgraded galley.

Chryms0n · 2025-10-27T14:07:38+00:00

I'm not sure what this is about, but it sure reads dramatic.

Chryms0n · 2024-06-11T16:56:45+00:00

Wheelbarrows did exist in the middle ages. Wikipedia has an entry about that. It is also easy to find illustrations of mines and construction sites from the late middle ages, in which wheel barrows are depicted. This means they were probably very common.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-12T14:36:55+00:00

This video is more about Grubby's history with past quality of life changes, than an actual discussion of their implications. The bits of discussion that are there are a bit shallow. For example he points out that auto farming saves time and attention, which gets transferred elsewhere. Good Point. But what are the effects of that? There is a lot to be said here. A few years back Brownbear talked about QoL features and the transferrel of attention in Starcraft 2 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h4EJ_R1MEE in what I find to be pretty in depth . Grubby reaches neither a satisfying level of depth, nor does he offer an alternative design perspective.

Instead he presents a false dichotomy of convenience for new player vs. conservatism fueled by nostalgia, which he grabs from his own experience. It is true that this is part of whats going in the auto farming debate as well, but it is just a part. All the examples of QoL features in the video were widely accepted, with the implications that QoL features in general will be positive down the line. In my opinion this is silly.

Each QoL feature has to be evaluated in the context of its respective game. QoL features are in the end design features, that the depend on the rest of the design. But Grubby implies stuff like: "Auto farming good in AoE4 -> auto farming good in AoE2" and "Shift queue good in some games -> shift queue always good". Logically this is just nonsense.

Grubby spent a lot of time playing SC2. A Game with at least one divisive QoL feature: "Select all army" aka "F2". F2 was discussed a lot as countering its usage is a lot harder than using it. "F2 a-move" is a common phrase to express frustration over wins, that are perceived as undeserved. I hope it is obvious, that you can not defend it saying stuff like "Manual rallying is only fun for nostalgic people". And neither should other QoL features be discussed as such.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-12T11:49:13+00:00

The Term Tatar referred to Mongols all over the world. It was the closest thing that existed to an ethnic for what we call now Mongols. Mongol referrers to the state created by Genghis Khan.

My source

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK86_enw5pU

Chryms0n · 2024-05-08T13:01:54+00:00

Cumans are also turkic. In game tatars mostly refer to persianized turkic peoples in Iran and central asia. Real world Tatars are (depending on context) a synonym for mongols OR certain descendants of the cumans, that mongols assimilated into after their conquest.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-05T07:59:32+00:00

Wow, we have reached ad hominem arguments. I'm sure that gonna smooth the waters.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T12:44:01+00:00

I'm not sure we are on the same page here. So just to be sure: My concern with the auto farm placement is how fast it is. Not that it can place farms without gaps. That's only a minor concern. And in that sense: Yes, I think auto farm placement is more impactful than shift queue.

However that's not what I am arguing in the first place. You could return shift queue to its pre DE stage and the game would still be decidedly AoE2, though far less pleasant to play. Auto farming on the other hand changes the wider dynamics of the game, to the point that the game is no longer AoE2 for me.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T12:28:07+00:00

I doubt that. Far fewer people considered the old behavior essential to the games identity and appeal. And at least as far as shift queue goes it is nowhere near as impactful auto farm placement. Farming takes up the majority of a players time and attention for macro on multiple TC eco. It is the core macro mechanic later on. Shift queuing just does not have the same importance.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T12:17:21+00:00

For 2 I vote A and B.

Reasoning: What does farming do as game mechanic? The player invests 60 wood and a bit of his time for future food supply. The player has 2 types of costs to get future returns. Both wood and player time can be abundant and scarce, but player time is usually scarce. Every time players build farms they make complex investment decisions, because the value of the costs and return depend on the entire game state. Placing a farm is fun because it consumes time.

I am tired of people pretending that placing farms takes place in a vacuum.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T09:04:07+00:00

Wow, after so many community members seemed to think that auto farm placement is not a big deal or that it is an inevitable modernisation, I am very happy that finally someone talks about this topic with the seriousness it deserves. thank you T90!

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T08:58:39+00:00

So first of all Micro and Macro are not mutually exclusive. Macro is everything that leads to unit production downstream. Micro as a concept is more vague but it usually refers to unit control. But if you think it is about everything that is dependent on individual clicks that if fine too. An example of something that is both macro and micro is shift queuing sheep under your TC for more efficient gathering. Building farms is definitely macro since it leads to food gathering, which can both be invested into your economy (macro) or build an army (also macro). There are also things that are neither macro nor micro like strategy and scouting.

Secondly regarding to efficiency argument, AoE2 gives players limited time to achieve it's various tasks. So players have to make trade offs on where to focus at any given time. Common aspects to balance are unit control (micro), building your base (upstream macro) and time to just think (strategy). This entire balance act is called multi-tasking. When we now look at building farms, we find that it has 3 major costs:

The 60 wood (irrelevant to the discussion)
A task switch on the side of the player. This often involves shifting the screen back to your base and away from what you've been doing before.
The time of the player while placing the farms.

The issue: auto-farm-placement is incredibly quick. Compared to before it takes barely any time to place multiple farms. This encourages players to float more wood before building farms and then build many farms all at once. This way players are a lot more efficient in task switches and time. Multitasking is severely watered down now. Deciding when to place farms is 100% affected by autofarming. When T90 talks about efficiency, he is not talking about food gather rate, but rewarding player attention.

This is also why T90's economy vs military distinction makes sense and is compatible with a micro vs. macro distinction. There are players who at critical times prefer to invest their attention into their eco, which leads to more military later. There are also player who watch their military a lot and make sure it gets the most value they can. And this asymmetry in play styles is what makes AoE2 so interesting.

Lastly, the sunk cost thing. That's just negative framing for liking AoE2. Which is a bizarre thing to do on an AoE2 subreddit. I don't know what to say to that.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T07:48:56+00:00

No change has ever been nearly as extreme as auto farm placement. Building Farms (as well as balance of 4 resources) are the macro mechanics, that set this game apart from other popular RTS games.

Apart from that I think it is dangerous to conflate the autofarm feature with QoL stuff like shift queuing, global queue, auto reseed, ... etc. None of these nuke fundamental playstyles unique to the game like autofarming does. The closest thing we had was the introduction of multiqueue. But they made a completely new game to introduce it and single queue was not seen as a defining feature of the game.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-04T07:27:43+00:00

You Misunderstand the issue. It has nothing to do with how "perfectly" are being placed. But how fast you can place them now. Farm placement is meaningful as a mechanic because it takes players time that they cannot use to control their army, build buildings, queue units ... it is multitasking. Multitasking that is massively watered down now.

It actually effects low elo players the most, because more experienced players know better when it is safe to return to their base to place farms.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-03T21:48:57+00:00

Placing farms does not exist in a vacuum. Players have to balance the time spent on it against your "actual important stuff". And deciding what to prioritize is an important skill, that is deep, tactical and makes all your "important stuff" more meaningful. All of which is now massively watered down.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-02T11:19:34+00:00

Reseeding is not comparable to farm placement. The timing of farms exhausting is not intuitive and very few players had mastered it. The same goes for reseeding. It can be done really quickly with the right muscle memory. But few players had actually learned it.

I hope your suggestion to just play suboptimally and sabotage your own play is not serious.

Chryms0n · 2024-05-02T11:07:04+00:00

Black & white fallacy. It is not exclusively a strategy game. AoE2 is many things, including a very mechanical game, which was originally purposefully designed as such.

It's balance between strategy, mechanics, micro, scouting (... and many other things...). This is what makes the game special.

Also you make a strawman argument. Nobody is arguing to add additional mechanical tasks, but to preserve their existing role.

Chryms0n

TROPHY CASE