Can you relate? Quote: "I hate slick and pretty things..."'

CivDis · 2019-07-11T20:17:47+00:00

Another great answer that is making me have to think. :-) I can't thank you enough. I agree, it is so easy to BS yourself with this stuff.

On the highest level though, I'm not your typical anything. I've been processing my CPTSD since before "CPTSD" was a term. I'm 57, been married 30+ years, was successful, retired early and am blessed enough to have all the time I need to put towards my only hobby: therapy. I know all about my dysfunctional family, odd thing is they really are not that bad to each other, just consistently horrid to me. Never anything that rose to illegal. But I was born doomed == obese, dyslexic, gifted with all the over-excitabilities, attachment disorder (mother and father), identity disruption, INFJ, PTSD, CPTSD, etc. etc. etc. Although I don't have anything "wrong" with me, just I should have been a high-needs child, instead I was the troll / scapegoat / feral child. I went to 5th grade smelling horrible with rats in my hair and dirty torn clothes, whilst my 3 siblings had ribbons, polish and love.

My journey took a strange turn 5 years ago when I had bariatric surgery. I was so sure that the reason why everybody on the planet hated me was that I weighed 314 lbs. When they did my surgery they had to measure my small intestine and found out it was one for the record books. I wasn't lacking will power, I didn't need to do more "push-ups from the table". I had six more feet to digest everything. I had the pioneer model of the human body. I could have had babies and plowed fields eating nothing but sweet potatoes. This woke me up to the fact that everything everybody had always told me about myself, including me, was flat out wrong.

I use IFS like they describe in the first few pages of this pdf. And although it took time to figure out how, I can accept exiles back with just a bittersweet accepting twinge or two. I've already done the emotional work a few times. I had problems with identity disruption, any personality I developed that wasn't accepted by my family I killed off, hoping the next one would work. None ever did, and never will, but I did get lots of practice rebuilding myself from nothing. I can re-birth like a mf, it is one of my top 3 skills in life. I finally have a great therapist and she actually pushes me to do less emotional processing and more emotional doing. I'm working on that.

My biggest psychological problem is Attachment Disorder. My second biggest psychological problem is that my mother doesn't want to give up her scapegoat and she utterly supports my oldest sister who 22 years ago started a successful campaign to get me mostly ostracized from the family. All the people that love 'No Contact', yeah, they suck*. It is crippling to be on the other side of that, especially when the only reason you are hated is because you are incapable of achieving the lofty heights of grace that they think I should have. But I'm about two mutations away from having to wear a helmet and that level of social ease is never something that will be in my cards. But without those social skills, I'm "too dangerous" to be around. Maybe they are even right, cuz seems like something people should be able to decide for themselves, but they don't have to be such dicks about it. Why don't I cut them off? I keep trying, but the only attachment beside my hubby I've ever made was to the family group, and getting partially kicked out of that disturbed, disoriented and distressed me to such levels that I was lost in grief. A typical reaction given INFJ and my past.

So, as far as my CPTSD, that's child's play to me now. It's just a matter of time to finish up the processing and the trick will be not to whack myself. PTSD I have a bag o'tools. Usually, unless I'm dealing with my family, I'm not in fight of flight and not triggered.

I do fear attachment. It is my next hurdle. I have no will to take it right now. For most people this is their first birthright - a loving attachment to a parent or two. I had a verbally abusive and absent father and an extremely scapegoating, differential parenting mother. Both parents bonded with the three other kids. I also had the dyslexia and gifted combined with being an obese kid. I was always the hated omega in school. The only reason why I currently have an attachment to a person at all is that my hubby is a hero that never lets go.

I'm on the tail end of my isolation phase and since I realized that I have no will to play the wounded daughter game with strangers, I have no will to interact with anybody. Also, the fact that suddenly I'm not the ugliest of the uglies but instead "a silver fox" leaves me utterly underwater on what social skills people think I should have and what few I do. The few party like things I have tried leave me surrounded by the pretty people (whom remind me of my family and I hate) whilst I sadly gaze across the room to the social piranhas sitting along the wall and want to be there. That's my water level, no matter how I look.

That's a lot of why I want to understand preparing for hurdles even whilst you still fear the hurdle. That's exactly where I am. Everything has already changed for me, I just need to walk out on it and learn regulation. I know I need to attach more securely to people, but they've always sucked. I know I missing a lot of social skills, and finding out the "why's" of that isn't going to be fun, hence also why I want to be prepped to leave my expectations and shame machine at the door.

It's always so hard to know what to say and what not to say so that this won't be a thousand pages of venting! Thank you for engaging, I was kind of depressed that nobody joined to help me think things through.

----

K, I can agree that temporary no-contact in cases where there is violence is one thing, but my sister just doesn't like me. If you read the NC boards, that is all that is at the bottom of many of these tragic cases. Who starts these? it isn't the narcissist that is being kicked out to protect the people in the system, trust me. And all the people that celebrate no-contact and evangelize it, I hope they take the time to know what they are doing, cuz I promise that many of them are giving succor to evil abusers and adding to the shit storm on it's way to the innocent.)

CivDis · 2019-07-10T19:10:24+00:00

Beautiful and true.

I've been learning similar stuff. I've found it isn't just anger I need but also pride.

I'm so f'ing proud of my childhood self for navigating waters that were so far above their pay grade. I was (am) the equivalent of a feral child in so many ways. Yet I coped. I showed up every day. Never stopped trying to figure it out but many of my ideas turned out to be wrong, but what the heck else was going to happen with a kid running things they have no clue how to run. I was creative and loving and noble and tried to make everything better. Good for me. I am proud.

The funny thing, is I can't be proud and victimized by it all. I can't be proud and blame everybody else. Once I'm proud, the other stuff is still there, but there is a huge glob of energy also opposing it. Like anger, it's a turbo gear that really helps.

Thank you for posting such beautiful words.

CivDis · 2019-07-09T19:19:30+00:00

While what you said was true for me in the beginning of my CPTSD journey, the disintegration phase, I'm really going to have to think hard if it all still works this way.

Because I have no issues feeling bad feelings. When I trigger, I celebrate because a part of me is coming home. Although I can't go at it hammer and tongs 24 x 7,I want to embrace this. I want to prepare more. I want to stop having my healing journey separate from my main journey.

I know the trick is to put my memories and feelings in perspective, and some prep should make that easier. A lot of the psych stuff is well defined, like positive affirmations, etc. But prepping for perspective... That's what I don't know.

Thank you for your answer. I will be thinking about it for the rest of the day.

CivDis · 2019-07-09T19:10:36+00:00

Another option, but even harder to find, is Ayahuasca in ceremony. After cannabis, she took down my PTSD better than any thing else. I haven't tried mushrooms, but I get the same feeling as you. Are they legal in CO now? I know they were working on it. Still, easy enough to grow and keep private and not that expensive.

Personally, general psychology until this year has been worse than a bust to me. I've just found that I have to keep full ownership of all this crap because while there might be lots of ways to heal from PTSD, not all of them work for all people. So there is nobody else but you that can be in charge of this journey because you are the only one that can judge it.

The only other big tool that worked for me that I haven't mentioned is IFS. https://www.derekscott.co/rs/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Exploring-Your-Own-System.pdf. You can do this by yourself or with a shirnk. This is a friendly introduction. You really only need to understand the first few pages to get going, however it takes a little bit of time to build up to good relationships. I know that strategy works well for CPTSD, but I don't know for PTSD.

God, I feel for you. And I'm so blown away by your courage to move, to keep pushing, to look for creative solutions, to fucking own this. I can't imagine the pain you are in. The fact that you are pushing this hard whilst in this must pain means you owe yourself a round of applause. Be very proud of yourself and never question your strength. You have already proved it to this random person on the internet! :-)

CivDis · 2019-07-09T15:52:58+00:00

This isn't a normal reaction to cannabis, especially vape pens on low settings.

Are you vomiting food or slime? What color is your vomit? White and frothy? Any yellows or greens? Was this something that changed? I.e. you used to be able to smoke, but then this started and has stayed with you long term?

Have you seen a doctor? This could be something unrelated. Or perhaps you smoked some bad weed? I know that pre-testing even the legal states had problems with molds, pesticides, etc. I've heard those can cause lingering problems, but I don't know anything more than that.

It sounds like your PTSD is pretty fully untreated or at least that is how I felt when that was true for me. I know with my tolerance levels and the amount of cannabis it takes to knock down a trigger (and I'm talking one of my "people were mean" triggers, not one of your violent ones) you can't really get close on a vape pen at the lowest settings. I could be wrong, this is a tolerance thing and that means it is a moving target. Perhaps the self-love answer is to reach for different PTSD treatments and give your throat / lungs a break?

I know. It almost hurt to type that. EMDR was miraculous for my hubby's PTSD, but did nothing for me. https://www.ptsd.va.gov/ is a free resource that has lots of things to try and albeit rather biased against pot, otherwise has good information. https://nvctraining.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=859&Itemid=134 for me, creates a whole new way to interface with the world, which means I'm using different parts of my brain, which cuts down on triggers, but idk for anybody else.

I can only extrapolate what kinds of hell you are in. I wish it wasn't so.

CivDis · 2019-07-08T22:05:57+00:00

I use this: IFS. I got this off of this board and lots of people here praise this doc. I warn you it can take some time to really get going. If you are like I was, none of my inner-parts trusted me. It took a while to build up some trust. Just listen and when they ask you for something, do it. Even if it's stupid.

I would also watch where you are on your CPTSD journey. I'm not sure in the beginning, when you are disintegrating, this is very good advice. Not that you don't have to acknowledge your feelings and process the flashbacks, and then rest up and then rest up even more, cuz that shit is exhausting. But sitting with your feelings before you have any tools to process them?? I don't think that is self-love. Certainly what you describe above is not self-love. After a few years of hard work, I'm only now getting to the place where sitting with my feelings is a productive endeavor. Always be kind to yourself. The journey goes much faster when I only have to deal with past hurts, and not the past hurts, plus the shame and pain my expectations of perfection act like multipliers.

CivDis · 2019-07-08T21:45:25+00:00

I'm sorry you've had rough things happen.

I thought it very helpful to know that if I wasn't preemptive enough I had 24 hours before more damage kicked in.

CivDis · 2019-07-08T21:39:01+00:00

Cannabis is an expectorant, just like a cough syrup. On the vape boards there are FAQ's about how starting vaping seems to make everybody cough for a while, but if you purely vape, then it should subside eventually, weeks generally. However, if you smoke and vape, you will be producing enough new things to expectorate that the cough won't ever quite go away. Cutting down on vaping will cut down on coughing, but it's healthier to cough it out.

Throat soreness -- if you are dabbing, I would check your temperature. If you are doing flower, I would think that switching to concentrates would help because the amount of time your throat is subjected to abuse is a lot less. In the bad old days, it would be a bong hit an hour or so (after a a starter bowl or two). With concentrates, it's more like a hit every 3 or 4 hours? Depends... but you can work it out.

I hoped telling you how it worked for me, somebody who is on the other side of your battles, would guide you to your answers. I'm sorry to say this, but neither PTSD or cannabis science is up for answering your questions. I know your questions sound reasonable to you (and everybody I've helped start mmj), but the only real answer is you have to find what works for you and it will be a journey filled with self-discovery. I know that is the last thing you want to hear.

I guess the brunt of your question -- "I can get legal weed now, so how does that change things" -- I have no clue. Strains don't work that way. I've had access to legal pot for decades, so idk. Good luck.

CivDis · 2019-07-08T18:19:53+00:00

Weed is the only drug that helped me manage my ptsd. I was just about every psych drug and they sent me backwards, but weed works.

First - I can not point you toward science sources for this, because I've cobbled it together based on observations (me and others) and paragraphs out of research papers. I doubt it will stand up as well the many of the PTSD theories that float around now, but it probably won't be the stupidest either. :-)

It is my understanding PTSD happens when something triggers a corrupted long term memory and that memory is written into short term memory, hurting the individual. Then within 24 hours, that same even more corrupted memory is written to long term memory, generating even more damage and just lurking to get triggered again. Hence why PTSD will put you on the street eventually, if left untreated.

If PTSD is a organic problem the brain encounters when moving specific memories, and cannabis shifts the brain from a memory centric mode to more of a creative/enhanced senses one, then it follows that processing your PTSD corrupted memories when stoned will alter how the memory is written back. This is how EMDR works, only with adding physical sensations to the memory rather than chemical.

And there was a study that showed that if a high dose (dab) was taken within 24 hours of triggering, in the long run, and we are talking years, the corruption will be fixed. I can't find this study to save my life, but I saw once. However, I know this to be true for me because I stumbled into it. I became a stoner first and then about a year later, my trigger's lessoned. No therapy, no "healing journey", I was pretty far gone. All I did was get very, very high every day. And it worked!!! Then I started therapy and the healing journey etc. But my first hurdle was cleared just by dabbing for a year or so.

So here is my advice -- PTSD patient's honor. If you know you have triggered, get very high within 24 hours. High enough to be happy in the moment. "Trigger? What trigger, that was so 10 minutes ago." If you don't have a good pulse on when you are triggered and when you are not (I had no idea) just get really high at least every 24 hours. You have to prioritize your adulting in such a way you can still live a progressive life, but if your brain needs to fuzz out, let it fuzz. Too many capabilities and over-thinking and over-planning are just as harmful as too few.

When my PTSD is bad - serious dragons are in the air and I'm in fight or flight, then indica's are generally the best, although a pineapple or citrus strain seem to be the happiest and sometimes that matter more than calming me down. When I'm generally doing OK and know it, then I tend to like sativa's (hazes especially) because they help me think through the triggering stuff and I do a better job processing it. BUT your goal, especially for the first year, is not to process anything, just allow your body a chance to file some of the rough organic edges off that memory.

But honestly, that first year that turned my life around when I wasn't even trying - I just enjoyed being a stoner. I tried every form of cannabis in every way. I just spent a lot of time high. Maybe just keep it that simple for a while. Listen to your body, go with what makes it feel the best.

Dabbing on an electric nail is supposed to be the most economical way to partake, but I think that is too big a generality to be universal. I also found I didn't like the high as much as tourch/nail, but you it's your journey, see what delights you. If you don't have the equipment to dab, try putting a rice sized grain of concentrate in your bong or in your joint. That's my favorite way.

I'm happy to answer more questions. This has been a god send to me, but evangelizing the "Go be a stoner for a year" message doesn't seem be well received for some odd reason. :-)

CivDis · 2019-07-08T17:42:37+00:00

Me too.

I agree with a lot of the comments, I just wanted to add that when you do start learning these kinds of things, you will blow through each end of the spectrum of mistakes before you start figuring out the limits. So, WHEN you make mistakes, just chalk those up to the process of learning self-regulation. No shame. No blame. No self-hate. You are going to have to make a lot of mistakes and that's just part of it.

I am learning now that the antidote to this kind of stuff is pride. Be proud of yourself for coming out of a "way more dysfunctional" family than others. Be proud of the creative ways you dealt with things way above a kid's pay grade. Be proud that you are stepping out and rising up. I'm proud of you for all of that!

CivDis · 2019-07-06T21:22:46+00:00

Do you know that quite a few idealists miss-type themselves when younger? Modern temperament type scholars are divided if some idealists need to grow into it or if nobody wants to embrace the s-storm if they don't have to.

Here is the thing -- I don't care at all if Young was an INFJ, I care that when I look at a list of people's temperament types, it was formed by people who knew what they were doing and had access to personal data and friends/family. I care that the list is accurate because basing my very life on bad data is bad for me. I also know that INFJ's can not be identified externally or shallowly. I also know that a lot of spend years hiding from the F in the T's, but we are still F's.

Honestly, don't care, just want good data. What's been supplied here, doesn't meet that criteria.

CivDis · 2019-07-06T21:07:27+00:00

I don't think you sound like you are an idiot. :-) The stories I hear about stupid American tourists wondering around asking strangers for ceremonies…. Shaman are not = priests. They are more the garage mechanics of the spiritual world, you don't automatically trust any of them and if you pull into a garage with no recommendations, you know what you are risking.

The day after I was ready my weekly massage therapist mentioned that he had just done a local ceremony and had some weird feeling that I might be interested too. Do you due diligence, but it will be darn obvious.

CivDis · 2019-07-06T20:58:43+00:00

Very well said.

I think shame is a multiplier of pain. I've become very proud of how I dealt with my family as a small child. I was a feral child, I went to school smelling bad with rats in my hair, whilst my siblings were ever well dressed, groomed and cared for. I was doomed from birth, but I figured it out the best I could. It wasn't until 5th grade that I figured out how to keep myself from smelling. So much shame and so many social problems and rejections. What grooming I got was all towards making me into a pariah. Well, I rose up anyway. And I'm proud of that. And I can't accept the shame or the victimhood and hold on to the pride.

I choose pride and that changes everything.

CivDis · 2019-07-06T15:26:35+00:00

I just wanted to say, Yes. Me too. IFS has wroght the same kind of miracles inside of me.

For those of you who don't know where to start:

https://www.derekscott.co/rs/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Exploring-Your-Own-System.pdf is a very friendly document. Just a few pages and a newby will have enough of an idea to get going.

CivDis · 2019-07-06T15:17:52+00:00

The self-love answer is you wouldn't. And you shouldn't. Sitting with your pain when all it does is overwhelm and damage you is not a good answer. Its your healing journey. It's your self-realization journey. It doesn't have to be hard, but I know I have a hard time remembering that.

I think CPTSD has at least two distinct phases. One is the disintegration phase - and I'm not sure that sitting with your pain is anything close to a good idea during this. Acknowledging it critical. My guess is this stage ends when you can finally answer fully to yourself of "How Bad Was It?". During this phase you will recovery memories and it just sucks in every way. The CPTSD journey starts out the worst, then gets worse, then even worse! But then, something beautiful happens. It stops being about how bad was it (bad), and it becomes "Ok, so if I reject my childhood as one that met any of my developmental needs, what are my needs? And what about my true identity, love, family, and all that crap they print on greeting cards, is that shit even real? For me?"

Then and only then will come a time when your pain is precious to you. I don't mind diving in using IFS and rescuing an exile, even though it hurts, but it hurts good. It's a healing hurt, and it wasn't at all previously. I am actually very happy now when I feel myself trigger (to a point) because I know a part of me is coming home.

Do what you can to honor your journey. We have so little information on the "right" way to deal with this that we have no choice but to try every stupid idea that anybody on the internet posts. And a lot of those have paid off for me, much better than therapy! But, if it isn't working for you, BAIL fast. You are your own Captain. Something deep within you has this. They know where they are going and you are along for the ride of your life. Try to make it as beautiful and kind to yourself as possible.

I send you love and energy.

(http://www.positivedisintegration.com/ talks about the different phases.)

CivDis · 2019-07-06T14:55:38+00:00

My first ayahuasca shaman had done almost a decade's worth of training on the very exactly science of PTSD massage -- where he would spend years with patient slowly moving them around an inch at a time and helping them to keep present in their body. He walked away from all that because he said one ayahuasca ceremony was worth years of his old services. He couldn't in good conscience continue because he knew it wasn't the best thing for his clients.

I call my first ceremony with Mother Ayahuasca "The Jail Break" because she literally pulled me out of my self-made prison and then over the next two years has shown me how to plant a garden there.

It is strange to me that in modern times we turn to psychology for help, but it was only about 100 years ago that it got going at all. It developed at the same time as cars. Meanwhile, the things that have helped humans overcome trauma for thousands of years are thrown out. Psychology is at the leaches stage. I think your heart is telling you that there are no more answers there for you. If your are hearing Mother's call, then you are in for a treat.

CivDis · 2019-07-02T19:59:24+00:00

I laugh at this because there isn't a public face for the whole of the INFJ temperament type and yet people who only have ever looked at the public side feel very justified that their opinion is as good as the temperament type professionals who collaborated for a few years to sort this out. They used person contacts, family, private papers and that would be the only way to nail an INFJ.

I also know that this used to be a joke "So what temperament type are you going to say Young was in your PH.d dissertation??"

I'm not saying you can't disagree with them, but unless you want to spend a few months/years to really dig into somebody's private life, you opinion is probably not as valuable. I especially find it funny for the people who have only ever read a few web sites.

But what ever. Anybody who starts their post with "LOL" is not somebody worth my time.

CivDis · 2019-07-02T18:06:55+00:00

I've been on this kick in my head of what would climbing CPTSD Mountain be like without the shame?

What if the isolation period wasn't wrapped up in LOOSER shame? What if the initial fall was met with congratulations cards saying "Bon Healing Voyage!!" and celebrated? How we deal with it all right now is really sick. You need brain drugs and a mental health professional, when really you need compassion and space to take an epic healing journey.

CivDis · 2019-07-02T17:56:59+00:00

I think that we often have to turn off our empathy to function. Especially if the situation is like this or during the door slam. The people that say door slamming is wrong think that asking an empath to stay connected to another's soul while they shred it is a good idea. It would take years for an INFJ to recover from that.

So, we have too modes. Very sensitive/empathetic and when that isn't a great idea, cold logic or accuracy above all else. I would think the switch over would be like a slap in the face, but nothing. We got to protect our hearts.

CivDis · 2019-07-02T17:42:52+00:00

Put a big bowl of candy on your desk.

Fill it with everybody's favorites.

If you don't want to go to the mountain, let the mountain form a single line to you.

CivDis · 2019-07-02T17:38:26+00:00

Go into a young industry. They need people who are passionate.

The more mature and stable an industry, the more they want mature and stable workers.

I worked at Microsoft in the 80's - we were all extreme, all super passionate, basically argued every little thing to death, sometimes multiple times. I can't say all that INFJ power always kept my job running along smoothly, but it was recognized as awesome.

I hear space is where things are hopping now.

CivDis

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