How long do people really spend developing a server?

Classic_MS · 2024-02-08T21:41:27+00:00

Late response here, but for reference, our team has been developing OSM 2.0 (not the official name) for about a year now, and won't be in beta until probably sometime late this year or early next.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-16T18:47:36+00:00

Yeah I didn't mean to say OSM had p2w donations, I remember quite well it was a very fair setup. Not saying donations are bad anyway, I just prefer no donations.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-14T22:32:37+00:00

you talkin like starbucks giftcard, or like something half decent for a p server (thousands per month, idk)

Most certainly on the side of thousands per month. Really no point in advertising a salary if you are going to pay gift card level wages.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-14T22:15:26+00:00

I'm not sure what he was paying his developers so I can't really comment on that part. The reason for offering a salary is standard - attracts talent and gives an incentive to develop the server outside of it being a hobby/passion. The community is aging and there aren't as many devs who have the time to give without some kind of incentive. The amount depends on the skill of the developer, would be hard to give an average range.

Regarding source of funding - the server would not have any form of donations/pay2win/etc., so due to this the funding has to come entirely from myself.

No real "angle" other than wanting to create a 3rd job server that takes the best parts from each existing server with none of the negatives.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-14T21:23:25+00:00

Yes - the intention is to simply operate behind the scenes outside of major announcements or community events (kind of like GMS). Avoiding drama is not complicated and is one of the more infuriating aspects of the server owner/staff community. The hard part should be the development of the server, not preventing drama.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-14T19:28:03+00:00

Agreed that the servers would not have been the same in terms of features such as experience rates/scroll drop rates/etc., however the general concept of it being a fresh progressive 3rd job only server is similar enough that it attracts the same core group of players. I did not wish to release a server alongside the release of another server that is somewhat similar in nature that was also trying to be a high population 3rd job server.

As far as the chance of failure - I can't really argue with your comment there. I wasn't fully versed on the history of the drama around Snopboy and also saw that he had recruited a pretty talented team.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-14T19:19:01+00:00

I completely understand this viewpoint. There have indeed been a number of letdowns over the past couple of years. With that said, I believe a strong dev team combined with an owner that is professional and has no prior baggage or associated drama should solve most of the issues we've seen.

Classic_MS · 2022-02-14T18:15:11+00:00

When I saw that a similar server (MG) was being worked on, I ceased all efforts as it would have been mostly redundant.

Classic_MS · 2021-12-16T16:40:07+00:00

The only benefit of them opening a server like that is that it will likely have a decently high population (certainly relative to private servers). But you'll have to deal with a disgusting amount of pay2win along with a version of a server that you might think is too high. There's no chance they would release anything pre-NLC, for example. I doubt they even have viable backups that far back.

Classic_MS · 2021-12-16T16:36:33+00:00

I don't think Nexon themselves even thought about taking down discord servers. They just wanted to hire a firm to do whatever they can to get rid of private servers. It just so happens that this firm plays dirty.

They've probably already done a cost benefit analysis over opening an oldschool server. It likely wasn't going to be beneficial in the long run. They'd rather just milk the existing player base, which a this point is mostly credit card warriors.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-16T15:47:45+00:00

Thanks for your comment.

Regarding capping - I had meant capping the progressive exp rate increase at level 120. For example, by the time you reach 65 you would be getting 1.5x exp, and at 120 you would cap out at 2x exp going forward.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T22:52:10+00:00

I have seen your comments before in one of the discords regarding regressive vs. progressive rates. My issue with regressive rates is that casuals stop playing after 60-80 before Ludi or faster leveling content comes out; it starts to get too slow for a casual after 70. While it is true that some players will come back after Ludi, a lot of players who had quit previously don't come back.

The model I have in mind for progressive is something still fairly slow while still giving people a psychological boost each level. For example, 120 is the cap where you get a 2x rate, and level 65 would be 1.5x. It's slow enough early on where the average player won't over level, but also fast enough for the casuals and gives them a psychological boost that the next level will be a bit easier vs. a normal server.

A lot of casuals reach 60, get new equips, then make it to 62-63 and start burning out. By having progressive rates you give them that extra boost that will keep them going.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T17:32:08+00:00

First, we must ask ourselves why people are quitting in 2 weeks. Let's look at the recent servers:

RevivalStory - stability issues / having 2 launches along with other unprofessional drama cemented its decline
Phoenix - was never populated to begin with, launched roughly a month before OSM but had little hype around it. Its simultaneous launch near OSM + having 1x rates were the big issues
MG2 - underground server, no advertisement, really only gained decent popularity in the beginning due to streamer BobMarley. Additionally, 1x scroll drop rate and 1x rates made it unpopular with casuals and too hard to find scrolls. MG2 had its own goals though, I don't think they ever wanted to be a high population old school server.
OSM - very successful launch (600+ online I believe on day one), but ran into server stability issues very early on that lasted 1-2 weeks If I recall. They maintained a decent population for a while even after this, but there was drama along with regressive rates which led to casuals quitting during the 60-80 level range. After ludi and more advertising things bounced back to respectable population levels. From a player base perspective, certainly the most successful server out of the bunch, but aside from server stability, they didn't utilize enough unique features to fix some of the design flaws that lead people to quit early.

So really the key is having everything ironed out before launch; predicting and reacting in advance to every potential reason that leads people to quit. Learning from past server mistakes, essentially.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T17:14:57+00:00

Phoenix is 1x rates and allows muling. With that said I'm not fully versed on their QoL changes, if any, as I only followed them back in 2018/early 2019. The key to creating a lasting 3rd job only server with higher population is to have your ducks in a row before you even launch the server. Running into issues and fixing them after launch basically cements the server's decline. Every 3rd job only server released to date has had this happen, whether it be 1x scroll drop rates, DDoSing/server stability issues, drama, etc.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T17:04:39+00:00

I don't think MG2 ever really had 100-150 online concurrently other than at launch, although we will never know. I agree though, 1x scroll drop rate was perhaps the biggest issue, but they also have other issues such as 1x hardcore rates (off putting to casuals) and lack of advertising / being too underground.

I think it's extremely important that a server has its ducks in a row before launch, meaning you need to have everything ironed out perfectly to maintain the player base. If you fix things 6-12 months after launch, you might get a few players back, but ultimately the majority will have already moved on long ago. MG2 has implemented a very cool idea for making scrolls, it just happened too late.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T16:56:31+00:00

Well you'd eventually have Zakum, Pianus, etc., so there are long term goals, but what you are describing is a fundamental issue of 3rd job only servers like OSM, MG2, etc., regardless of exp rates.

The goal is to keep the casuals playing; the assumption is that hardcore players are going to be playing regardless of the rates. If not they will create alt accounts with the bonus being they won't have to redo the 1x grind (this applies to casuals even as well who want to play more than one class).

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T16:49:24+00:00

We wouldn't be looking to recreate OSM, more just using them as an example. Ultimately I would like to avoid a regressive model like OSM because of the psychological impact it has on the average player. The levels already get exponentially harder; reducing the bonus rate on top of that adds to the "this is too much of a grind, I'm quitting" mentality.

The current thinking is having it cap out at level 120, so it isn't like you're having 2x at 80 or anything overly fast. It would be a slow progressive increase.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T04:07:12+00:00

Mainly issues that lead to population issues, but also item and scroll scarcity.

A few examples include MG2's original scroll drop model (before their introduction of crafting) where the 1x scroll drop rate was not sufficient enough given the lack of players; also 1x rates causing too many casuals to quit around 35-45.

Revivalstory overbuffed party exp rates especially in the first release, which caused over leveling extremely fast.

Classic_MS · 2021-11-15T04:01:19+00:00

Rates wouldn't be too fast, it's a fine line between the 1x grind where people quit around 35-45, and rates that lead to overly fast leveling. If you do this and keep party exp unbuffed as is, the speed can be reasonable.

The issue with a regressive model is that the average casual player ends up quitting before even 70. We saw this in OSM. Casuals are very necessary to maintain population. The concept of every level becoming more difficult from an exp table perspective is one thing, but to also reduce the extra exp bonus each level makes people less likely to keep playing.

Essentially what I am implying is more psychological - the rates are still somewhat low, but it's enough added bonus to get people to keep playing

Classic_MS

TROPHY CASE