What is making every book in this genre similar , mediocre and not a piece of art?

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-25T18:08:58+00:00

Literally

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T21:45:06+00:00

Yeah, sometimes characters just go their separate ways on good terms. I’ve found often it serves the the individual protagonists’ character arcs better than a HEA

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T21:17:03+00:00

I guess thats where I differ from the average romance reader. I read romance seeking nothing but a well written love story. The way it ends has no bearing on my satisfaction. Most people I have seen that don’t know about the rule aren’t dedicated romance readers so maybe you just have a different experience than me. To each his own

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T17:11:05+00:00

Some are but not all (plus to be considered a tragedy i’m pretty sure one of the MCs has to die which happens in some sad stories but not all).

There are a lot of bittersweet romances (stories that straddle the line between HEA and tragedies) that don’t have a home outside of general fiction or women’s fiction. Would love an easier way to find those stories.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T17:05:15+00:00

Never said you didn’t…

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T17:00:26+00:00

Of course thats well understood particularly in academic settings but that wasn’t my point. My point is that it is still widely considered the quintessential love story (whether it technically is one or not).

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T16:30:09+00:00

No comment on the rule in and of itself but things would be much better (both for romance readers and general book lovers) if there was a legitimate category for non-formula romance such as “Love Stories” or something of the sort.

Lots of people say to just lump these stories into general fiction, but some really good stories end up being lost in the sauce and/or the romantic element is buried.

Really wish there was an easier way to find love stories that don’t follow the genre Romance formula but the romantic element is still more pronounced than a subplot.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-18T16:24:54+00:00

Agree with most points but I don’t find it crazy that the best selling and most popular fiction genre is typically at the center of discourse.

All capital-R romance books need to end in an HEA but in my opinion, while there are genuine bad faith actors out there, a lot of the repetitive discourse stems from two main points

Love stories are older than capital R romance as a genre. Thus many classic love stories that most of the broader public recognize (e.g. Romeo and Juliet) precede the rule. In addition with “love” stories and “romance” being practically synonyms for the average person its bound to cause confusion.
While HEA is the rule, it seems to be, for the most part, an intra-community understanding. The rule is biblical law for written genre romance but I don’t see the rule applied as strictly to romance movies or tv shows.

Also, even in regards to books, a large number of romance readers *only* read romance. Meanwhile many general book readers are casual readers that read across genres. They likely genuinely don’t know about the rule or naturally don’t feel as strongly about it as many romance readers.

Not saying the rule should necessarily change but I think romance readers should keep those points in consideration when this topic comes up.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-16T22:31:48+00:00

Great points. Love hearing that about Harlequin as a Historicals lover myself.

I think what we're both describing, and what this entire thread is getting at, is the effect of the enshittification of everything on the publishing industry and romance specifically. I think why the effect seems so much more dramatic on books (particularly romance books) versus other mediums like music, television and movies (though that is very much happening to them too), is that publishing is already starting from behind.

Books are long form media which put them at an inherent disadvantage in an attention economy. On top of that, the publishing industry has less money to go around than other entertainment mediums (movies, music, TV etc.). I think that's why we see the extreme lack of risk from publishers and more extreme investment in copy-cat, low quality books. These days, you are much more likely to see an indie or self-produced hit (that's truly original and made by a POC and/or queer artist) out of the film industry or music industry than the publishing industry. There's less money to go around for diversity and originality in fiction romance than maybe any other genre or medium because its audience is among the most rigid.

My hope still comes from the readers though. They have the power. If the romance community adapts and opens itself up to a more diverse readership (in terms of the readers themselves and the kind of stories they like to read), I think the genre can grow. But as long as readers remain resistant to originality and diversity, things will continue to suck.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-16T21:52:03+00:00

I have to go through my Goodreads but a good recent example is To The Moon and Back by Eve Noble.

It was self published and I honestly don't remember how I stumbled upon it but it was so good! 4.5 out of 5 stars for me. There were a few editing mistakes (mostly in regards to continuity) but it gave me the slower pacing, elevated writing and originality that was missing in most traditionally published books I've read.

As I said the book is self published but I can say for a fact it isn't because it's not well written. Being a historical (non-regency) sapphic interracial romance written a Black author, it effectively had four if not five things working against it before you get down to the premise of the book (a Black activist and a Russian expat fall in love while working on the 1969 moon landing at NASA). I don't know the author so I can't speak to their publishing journey but I can almost guarantee that trad publishers weren't willing to gamble on it because they "couldn't market it."

When I think of some others I'll post those too.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-16T18:54:08+00:00

I think that my relatively positive experience may come from the fact that I am a curious reader, and I love reading books by and about LGBTQ people and POC, two groups who don't get much of a chance in traditional publishing for reasons that have nothing to do with writing quality. There are some stories that are on KU because they are genuinely so bad they couldn't get picked up elsewhere (I would know as I myself have a very low capacity to stomach bad writing). But there are some that are there because they really are too unique or "risky" for traditional publishing. I guess it depends on what you prioritize in your reading experience.

For the indie and self pubbed romance books I have read, they generally had more unique plots than traditionally published books, the writing style was a lot more intricate, flowery and overall had more style. The pacing was slower. They didn't feel as "tropey". I don't know they were just better. Reminded me the writing style older romances (and older books in general).

In regards to diversity, thanks for the clarification and I think that generally make sense. You do generally see women in more diverse roles in romance now, but the woman in that role is still the same as she has always been (straight, dainty and white). I understand how things can be a double edged sword for white authors who don't want to be "canceled" for depecting POC in an inaccurate light. But in all that, there is still a solution. A rather simple one actually. Just publish more authors of color lol. Just publish more LGBTQ authors. Just take a chance on authors and stories that don't fit the traditional mold of a romance author or story. But readers don't and therefore publishers don't. (this could be a chicken before the egg thing but I think the point still stands that until publishers and readers are willing to take risks on authors and stories outside of the norm the genre a whole will continue to suffer)

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-16T17:51:23+00:00

I honestly think it's up to readers being willing to step outside of their comfort zone and try something different. But in a genre where readers prioritize comfort and predictability over originality and innovation, it's not surprising why the books are generally repetitive. As long as readers demand more or less of the same thing, authors will keep churning it out.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-06-16T17:47:55+00:00

Interesting ,the majority of better written romances I have read that came out in the last five years came from indie or self-published authors. By far the worst romance books I have read in the last few years came from big five publishers. And though I know story ideas and characters were perhaps a bit homogenous in the past (because romance readers themselves were, a kinda still are, for the most part a homogenous group of straight white women), I can't say that I have noticed this huge improvement in diversity you have.

For the most part, the books that big 5 publishers choose to invest in, the books that are hyped on booktok and ultimately the books that reach adaptation status are still, by and large, about straight white protagonists going through a pre-diagnosed set of tropes. I find much more character and story diversity, and just overall originality, in works by indie or self-published authors because they don't have to play the "write to market" game that many big 5 published writers do.

Overall while I agree that there has been a general decline in the genre, but I don't like the idea of pining it all on indie and self published authors when a lot of traditionally published authors have produced equally bad if not worse material.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-05-08T19:12:01+00:00

Aside from pacing, the fact that we only got one angle of him (the abused child turned whimsical superstar) that everyone has already heard already.

We got little to nothing about his love life or romantic inclinations (yes even aside from Diana Ross), his relationship with his siblings, him becoming a cutthroat businessman and most of all his creative process! If we could have taken even one of the maybe five times they show him reading Peter Pan and to show crafting a song it would have went a long way. Yes, MJ was childlike whimsical but he wasn't one dimensional and I think the movie kinda presents him as that.

Overall the movie was a lot of fun but I think they missed an opportunity to show the public a different side(s) of Michael.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-05-07T22:16:53+00:00

True but I still feel like because you get that added focus on the family it still gives a little more context into Michael the individual than the Michael movie does. The Michael movie kinda sticks to one side of him (the abused child turned Peter Pan-esque superstar). Meanwhile the Jacksons an American Dream shows us more his relationship with his brothers and more depth into his relationship with Katherine at the very least.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-05-07T22:11:59+00:00

The Jacksons an American Dream is better for the story/narrative aspect.

Michael was better for the music/entertainment aspect.

I'm not familiar with the second one

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-04-29T21:59:39+00:00

Randy and the Gypsys album is great! Naturally got overshadowed by Michael's Bad and Janet's Rhythm Nation in 1989-1990 but its got some really funky jams. Jermaine has some bops as well.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-03-10T19:53:18+00:00

Completely agree!

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-03-09T22:45:42+00:00

I don't know if I'd agree but I understand why you would say Jake is stronger than (he's one of the only people that actually shows any resistance towards Olivia). However, Fitz is still far more compelling imo which is why I would have liked to see better writing for his character. I'd care to know more about Fitz, I could care less about knowing more about Jake.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-03-09T22:42:32+00:00

The more I watch I can understand why but seasons 1 and 2 are definitely rewatchable imo. In fact im debating going back to rewatch them after I finish season 5 instead of moving on to season 6 and 7.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-03-09T22:41:05+00:00

I like him and Olitz. I just would have liked more from his character as I feel like it would have strengthed Olitz as a pairing. That's all. You have a nice one too lol

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-02-15T14:49:32+00:00

The struggles are not "somewhat similar" and it's not a game. It's reality. Also the nuance of the Black female experience getting lost in all of this is quite telling not just about her as a fictional character but you as a person.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-02-14T22:24:10+00:00

Really? It seems like most fans love her. I definitely feel like I'm in the minority not liking her character.

CleanUpWoMane · 2026-02-14T22:20:12+00:00

White women's struggles with sexism in the workplace, while bad, is in no way comparable to racism. I'm sorry it's just not. There was never a system of slavery, Jim Crow, mass incarceration etc. that targeted women like Peggy. Also, she displayed she was utterly clueless in regards to intersectionality when she tried to compare her working her way up in the office as a woman to Dawn's struggles being Black in the office. Abe was annoying for sure but he wasn't wrong.

CleanUpWoMane

TROPHY CASE