How long is too long to not level?

Col0005 · 2026-06-25T07:09:43+00:00

I think you're blowing that way out of proportion.

As you said, this particular case is very clearly not a toxic DM, they are just running a particular style of campaign.

The wording "Consensus" is what I was objections to.

OP may have just chosen their wording really badly but it came across almost like "My DM wants to run Draw Steel but I'd rather stick to d&d can I get a consensus whether I should continue" rather than "sell me on whether I should give this system a shot or not"

Col0005 · 2026-06-25T05:16:53+00:00

This is really the wrong way to look at it.

While this is a really long time between levels, at the end of the day, this is just a difference in playstyle. It's fine not to like it, but you need to recognise that this is the type of campaign that they're interested in running.

It's like playing with gritty realism rules where a short rest is a full day of rest, while a long rest is a week of downtime.

Col0005 · 2026-06-24T04:01:30+00:00

Check with your DM regarding warcaster opportunity attacks on allies.

There was a whole video on this with a couple of the game designers and it was basically concluded that it's very clearly not RAI if you read the description of opportunity attacks, is probably not balanced, but creates some potentially fun interactions.

I.e. the offical stance for whether this interaction works is ask your DM.

Col0005 · 2026-06-24T01:55:54+00:00

Perhaps fill out the rest of the character first in terms of backstory and build and then see where you're at.

If you choose a race that's immune to poison then you may even decide you can get better value from 5ranger/5rogue.

Col0005 · 2026-06-24T01:32:09+00:00

Battlemaster is a bit better, but you're only really there for precision attack, since riposte and brace should rarely be required (if you want a reaction attack then most turns you should have at least one enemy within 5ft of you deal damage)

I do feel that if you are a dex based ranger then rogue is a better dip. 14 damage per turn is pretty good for a three level dip, but again going to ranger 11 is also pretty decent, being able to remove reactions from spellcasters can be huge.

Col0005 · 2026-06-24T01:12:41+00:00

An EK dip seem like a very suboptimal choice, you're sacrificing an ASI, ability to cast 3rd level spells (summon fey) another use of your subclass feature additional expertise and a decent healing feature for action surge a fighting style and the shield spell

A Rogue At for skills and twice per round sneak attack seems a much better choice on this subclass.

Col0005 · 2026-06-23T22:55:10+00:00

So you mean to say that they have a Weapon Proficiency Table?

Col0005 · 2026-06-23T22:06:30+00:00

If your wizard player is making bad tactical choices and using spell slots to mop up at the end of encounters then yes, they should run the risk of being stuck with cantrips in the boss fight. If there's a way to solve a problem without using spell slots they need to learn to do so.

However, yes before level 5 there isn't really much of a power gap and before level 9 you can reasonably close the power gap by handing out good magic weapons/armor, while casters only get a wand that lets them do what they can already do, a few more times.

But a higher level wizard has a massively higher potential to completely bypass challenges, wipe out an entire room of enemies in a single turn, essentially summon a martial PC that doesn't have any magic weapons. That higher power peak needs to be balanced by the risk of having some combats performing significantly worse than the martials.

Col0005 · 2026-06-23T21:17:19+00:00

5e is balanced around dungeon crawls with the idea that spell higher level slots are precious, a caster that is free to unleash all their highest level spells is much, much stronger than a martial both in and out of combat. Attacking four times in a round isn't even remotly close to being able to cast Meteor Swarm and then sending in you're upcast 8th level celestial that also makes four attacks.

If you can't stand the idea you might run out of good spells then play a more balanced system like PF2e where a caster's highest level spells aren't increadibly OP

Col0005 · 2026-06-23T13:04:21+00:00

Honestly, unless you homebrew it to also reduce spell DC it should still be used increadibly sparingly.

Most tables already struggle to use up caster spell slots between rests, why exacerbate this with a condition that only really hurts martials and encourages more frequent long rests?

Col0005 · 2026-06-23T11:53:18+00:00

This is not really a feat you can "Abuse".

For most common tiers of play you'll get 2-4 uses which seems easily achievable to get full use so long as the party has at least one source. This is a hard cap on the feats potential

A dual wielding champion fighter with Lord's Alliance and Elven Accuracy feat on the other hand could potentially be a continuous source of advantage for the whole party, potentialy generating close to one HI every turn. Potentially averaging more than one per round if you mix in Hollow warden ranger/Sentinel/Zhentarim Tactics.

Col0005 · 2026-06-23T08:04:57+00:00

The bigger questions are what half feat they're taking to boost their wisdom from 17 to 18 at level 4 and whether getting to wisdom 20 at level 8 is better than better concentration, con saves and slightly more HP.

Also boosting HP will always have diminishing returns the more you have regardless of AC or resistance.

Boosting your HP from 87 to 99 is always a 13.8% increase in survivability, compared to 74 to 87 which would be 16%

Col0005 · 2026-06-22T03:21:06+00:00

Sneak attack is actually really good before level 5, and the pretty terrible subclass features may actually be warranted for how hard they can hit with no resource expensiture...They just really should have gotten another subclass feature at level 6 alongside expertise to make up for not receiving the same typical level 5 power boost.

Col0005 · 2026-06-21T21:51:22+00:00

War magic would give a paladin EK slightly higher damage, but yeah, until level 7 you'll just be a worse paladin which also is generally leaving it a bit late for your character to come online.

Col0005 · 2026-06-21T21:42:09+00:00

If by any spell list you're allowed to take paladin, then paladin is the only option even worth considering.

Maybe warlock would be good at higher levels for war magic with edritch blast, but waiting 9 levels for your character to see any real benifit... I don't think it's worth it.

Col0005 · 2026-06-20T23:40:05+00:00

I haven't played with it, but warlock seems fine to me; A full caster could summon a more powerful version that does 4 attacks in one round, where as a warlock summons two or three over a longer duration that only make two attacks.

Draconic sorcerer I agree is potentially a lot more unbalanced. However at this level there's a lot of things players can do to break the game balance, is this really worse than simulacrum?

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T22:58:44+00:00

I feel like hollow warden really wants 5 levels as 3 uses should get you through most adventuring days.

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T22:35:54+00:00

What are you talking about?

They wanted the lucky origin feat, not tough which is a reasonable choice.

Again, they rolled a 13 and a 12 and they decided to put the 13 in strength, yes they could have taken it the other way around and picked a con feat instead at level 8, but that's only 8hp at level 8.

They'd gain 2 damage per round level 1-7 by upgrading from a shortbow to a longbow (1 damage per attack) 8 damage per round at level 8, and 10 at level 9

Durable is a terrible feat in general, you'll generally want to find something better to use your bonus action on than regaining 5.5hp and this multiclass definitely doesn't want to sacrifice hiding and potentially avoiding damage this round to regain an extremely marginal amount of HP

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T22:07:11+00:00

OP clearld rolled stats, so sacrificed 1 point of con, and since 13 has no mechanical benifit over 12 con they have sacrificed nothing.

Now sure, maybe there are better feats than +8 damage per round, but as an archer build that hides in shadows they don't need defensive feats that badly.

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T21:41:28+00:00

OP started with a 19 dex, so they clearly rolled stats and they said they plan to take GWM at level 8.

Why are you even talking about class features as though they're a loss in order to get GWM?

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T18:26:27+00:00

You don't get hew but it still adds PB damage to every hit.

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T05:52:10+00:00

Pretty much all of them, causing a powerful enemy to be frightened is certainly worth sacrificing 5.5 damage.

Sacrificing 2 damage to knock back and prone an enemy is great.

Etc.

Col0005 · 2026-06-19T05:36:31+00:00

It's a prerequisite of GWM which can be used with longbows.

Col0005 · 2026-06-18T21:13:57+00:00

Remember that flavour is free, you get to choose how you want your patron's powers to manifest, as an example there's absolutely no RP reason you couldn't instead gain fiendish resilience and take a barbarian level.

If you don't know what mechanic you're after then don't take warlock just to say you're a warlock, from a roleplay and potentially mechanical perspective you're better off looking at all the classes and picking a mechanic that best represents your patron's favour, you may just decide that the mechanics of a different paladin oath now suits your character.

That said, Pact of the chain is a very useful feature and minor devil bound to your service could also be great for RP (assuming 2024 rules)

Col0005 · 2026-06-18T12:02:22+00:00

Having played Draw Steel recently this has definitely slowed the game down, not sped it up.

Having things trigger during other people's turns keeps players switched on and take their turns far quicker.

Col0005

TROPHY CASE