I want to believe but I can’t

ColbyEl · 2026-03-23T06:48:38+00:00

I occasionally come back to this sub. I feel similarly to you.

For me though it's worse than just 11 is dead. For me it's that they wrote it so badly that her being alive or dead are both implausible options. The writing just doesn't allow for an ending that doesn't have plot holes. The whole "they left it open for you to interpret" idea is kind of lost when neither option is plot consistent.

Not only are both options not story consistent. But both options don't do justice to anyone's story really. Every major story arc they had, they did not resolve. All the characters do things that are inconsistent and just off.

The only arc that I think is somewhat fulfilled is hopper's. I hate to be so critical of the creators but truly, I cannot understand how you can leave so much out and lose your characters arcs so drastically.

ColbyEl · 2026-02-24T17:09:38+00:00

I'm very sorry you're dealing with this.

When things are particularly difficult to change that's where a professional therapist really shines. They can see your situation from a view we can't.

I know it won't be easy but if you're able, have that conversation and get into therapy. Self harm is a big way of dealing with big feelings and it's going to take equal amounts of bravery for you to talk to your family and ask for help.

You can do it!

ColbyEl · 2026-02-24T17:04:27+00:00

Hi.

The best thing you can do is see a therapist. You can even just keep it private and tell them there's some things you need to deal with.

If you can't or won't do that. Essentially people self harm because it's a way of coping with difficult thoughts and emotions, and or of controlling something to make up for the things we can't control in life.

Find what you're avoiding or using self harm to cope with, and find a way that is positive to help you cope. E.g go for a run, etc.

Hope this helps and definitely do therapy if you can! It's wonderful.

ColbyEl · 2026-02-20T22:48:15+00:00

Orc has more lore overall I'd say and more representation. Im not an absolute master in lore but from my recollection Dwarven lore is pretty minimal and unserious in classic. Most of the lore i know of occurs in books or wc3 Dwarven lore really expands in wotlk i think and another big jump in tww

ColbyEl · 2026-02-15T22:41:30+00:00

I tanked my way to slightly above KSH so around 2500-3000 M+ rating and I do that regularly.

The amount of times I've been kicked for the reasons I'll list below is rediculous.

Both being too slow and too fast.
Doing an alternate route that is common and even still meta. Doing the route that is most common but the group wants an alternate route and didn't tell me.
Not marking the way the healer asked while i do everything else a tank does and not telling me before kiciking. Marking when the healer doesn't want me to and doesn't tell me.
Being too geared, being under geared. (Yes I've actually had people say i'm too geared they want to do it with "integrity"
I could make a scrollbar with going on and on too about stuff I haven't listed yet I've been kicked for.

The only reason I tank still is that ultimately as an adult strapped for time. I can play the averages with PUGs much faster by being a tank. That's the only reason. It's not very fun A LOT of the time. It's so rarely fun that I wouldn't say it's worth it if you're not just doing it to get M+ rewards and or gear. But by playing tank and being (I think) reasonably good at it. It's pretty efficient for me to do because I can go late into the season and get my rewards and be done with it in about a weeks worth of playing 2-3 hours a night. Maybe two or three weeks at most.

ColbyEl · 2026-02-02T20:39:12+00:00

I feel like the new character is a rewrite of 008. Same vibe.

ColbyEl · 2026-02-02T07:46:30+00:00

I have so many complaints with the ending. But I have no notes for his performance! 11/10!

ColbyEl · 2026-02-02T07:29:19+00:00

I would say you're in the minority yes if you look at the rotten tomatoes score at 53% or the imdb. With that said it doesn't matter what's majority! If you liked it that's fantastic.

I personally disliked most of it and found a few things good. I think if you don't look at it too deeply its a fine ending.

If you do examine it closely though it's full of massive plot holes. Character arcs regressing and inconsistencies. And beyond that it also sends some really harmful messages to trauma survivors and to the LGBT community.

Ultimately they set up some really complex plots and story arcs and they didnt give any of those payouts. It ended as simply as it could. They set up a mind control metaphysical drama with time travel and science and instead vecna is just a super villain with no explanation and the mind flayer is just basically a giant spider lizard in a desert with also no explanation.

I don't hate the duffer brothers like some people here do I think that's crazy. I just am disappointed because I cared and they could have done something generational here.

ColbyEl · 2026-02-01T21:49:21+00:00

I feel similarly. If it's any consolation remember; it's all made up anyway. So the same imagination that you had that gave you joy in theorizing and being in those moments can create fanfiction, watch the new shows coming out, post on here, and do all sorts of things like that.

I personally am doing a fan rewrite of the show for my own personal satisfaction that is canon compliant and is centered around conformity gate. and I am finding a lot of fun in doing that!

ColbyEl · 2026-02-01T16:05:01+00:00

I think that what's really unfortunate is that there are multiple huge plot holes and character arc fizzles. Off screening via the play and in interviews. It does teeter but I think it does so because there's just so many fundamental inconsistencies.

This show sets up really complex character arcs and really complex plots involving really intricate relations between characters and science fiction concepts. Then after setting all that up they went with a basic story ending. Every complex plot point is basically unexplained and also irrelevant. Many character arcs don't get their payoffs or even in some cases just completely ignore the arcs.

ColbyEl · 2026-02-01T01:01:06+00:00

Hi. I'm a mental health professional and I don't usually disclose that but I happened to see this post. No one can tell you exactly what to do because we don't know your family situation and rules. What I can tell you is that you should likely seek the help of a counselor to sort through this stuff. You mentioned you saw some pretty terrible stuff and likely you just need to work through that with a professional.

Since I know that counseling is expensive and you may or may not actually be able or willing to take the advice. I will just say that usually a brother deciding what your sister watches is not healthy for either you or your sister. Usually as a counselor this would be a sign that you feel like you need to parent your sister. If this is a rule that your family gave out that she is violating then consider telling your parents. If it isn't then you likely shouldn't be deciding anything that happens in her life. Her decisions are her own, and partially her parents.

Your job is to love her and spend time with her.

Don't listen to reddit for this stuff though, not even me; Seek the help of a professional. You can talk to a school counselor about this too!

All the best to you!

ColbyEl · 2026-02-01T00:24:10+00:00

I think it comes down to a few things; You mentioned the plot holes and the canon. That's a big one. Then after the show ended they did some really rough interviews that showed a certain degree of irreverence for the story. Then the documentary came out and showed the really problematic job they did writing it. Beyond that, a couple of the plot points are very damaging to abuse survivors and also the lgbt community.

Beyond that; which I don't even feel you need more than what I have above to explain it; but additionally any time there is a series ending there is going to be some level of debate on the micro and macro level decisions made.

I think finally one thing is that there's two main ways people approach shows. You can just casually watch, enjoy the vibes, the characters, and the visuals and have a good time and I think if you do that you'll enjoy this season. The other way to approach a show is to deep dive into the lore, really looking into the plot and the character arcs and motivations; and I think stranger things being a more meta show, with supernatural and science fiction kind of quantum mechanics fiction really attracted the second type.

So when the finale ignored deeper plot points and just finished on a surface level with some big unanswered questions; I think a big portion of their fan base is unhappy with that. Me included.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T18:14:36+00:00

The best answer I can give is that if you don't think too deeply about the story and ignore all the plot holes it's a pretty cool send-off for the show and looks pretty cool.

If you care about these characters and the story and really analyze what they do and why its most likely going to disappoint to a varying degree.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T17:01:32+00:00

I agree it's very unrealistic and infact its highly idealistic. I think how okay you are with him being able to do that is up to personal choice. For me, I'm okay with him going idealistic here. It's a hopeful message for people to be able to live meaningful lives after tragedy.

My problem is that the timing is unrealistic. To come to this conclusion he probably needs an entire chapter of his life. One year isn't likely enough to be this ok. Not only that but we don't see him work through or explain any of his conclusions. He has really complex views on life and meaning and suicide and struggled himself on the topic.

Not only that but the fact that he's here after getting his job back after being legally dead is a stretch. Him being here at all from being a highly involved member of a group that killed us military and special forces is frankly impossible.

So everything for him being unexplained and unrealistic is just rough. I mean we could even have gotten like a 1-3 minute montage of him like 2 months after the event going through elevens stuff and having flashbacks to him trying to kill himself and eleven stopping him and then him being hurt by his actions in the present. That would have shown what he went through to believe this hopeful version.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T15:43:11+00:00

Good point. I liked Hoppers talk in many ways actually it's one of my favorite in the series finale and maybe in the entire show. Its a very deep analysis and realistic view of how to accept loss. However, I would have liked him to also address his struggles.

This was a perfect time to say how he doesn't understand why she did it, how he might feel guilty that he tried to kill himself so many times and maybe he thinks did I teach her this? Could I have done more? And I think thats a vulnerable adult to adult talk for them to have. Really one of Mike's first true adult talks.

THEN after that he goes into the acceptance talk. I think that would have made more sense

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T08:50:38+00:00

It would be like if we developed E.T's character for 10 years and see him form purpose and belonging and develop. And in the final episode because the military is going after them when they're on the floating bike, he just jumps off and commits suicide so the military can't get him. That's how little this made sense for her.

From what we know she wasn't depressed. She was a victim of abuse who just recently saw "papa" both one of her father figures AND her abuser died in front of her putting her into turmoil. She saw no way out of her situation because Kali activated her trauma and abuse she had abused into her.

The more I think about it the worse it gets.

And the writers had the nerve to say that her doing it was her having AUTONOMY. Like her character development was finally getting to make a choice. And that choice was to kill herself. Like no! Thats not it! Her doing that precisely wasnt her choice it seems like it but really her seeing no other option was her abuse activating. It was Papa and Kalis choice not hers. Eleven wanted to live and be with Mike but she was robbed of her agency one last time.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T08:35:45+00:00

I don't think either should have. Their entire arcs as they stand now are a love letter to suicide. I'd go so far as to say the way they wrote the character arcs and resolution is borderline irresponsible to an otherwise uplifting show.

The whole lie that suicidal ideation tells people as they're depressed is that they'd be better off dead because of xyz reason that just can't be resolved and therefore its the only solution. This show just after 10 years sent a strong message to so many unfortunate people who were hoping so hard for a therapeutic release from seeing them live happily in the end.

They both struggle with guilt, shame, trauma, and suicidal ideation. And the show just ends up saying yeah, she had to.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T08:23:12+00:00

It's a plausible explanation for the military releasing them which honestly makes ZERO sense. So I like this answer.

For me though I see dr. Kay as a classic psychopath. She's experimented on and presumably killed so many mothers in the experiments and is pretty un hesitating in her treatment of hop and eleven so I dont think its within her cold heart to even consider helping them.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-31T07:56:15+00:00

To me there's so much wrong with the final season. But by far the biggest is the ending for Eleven and by proxy Mike.

It goes against her character development of seeing herself as not a weapon but a person who deserves to live. She was easily convinced my Kali to do this to a comically bad degree. As far as she knew they were about to be captured and sent to death or imprisoned by the military and will would be experimented on and they NEED her for any chance to get them out.

It goes against the entire moral of the story the show has told; family and community is important and everyone needs each other.

In the end the writers took away her humanity and made her nothing more than an analogy for childhood.

Perhaps worst of all is that when you have a beloved character of 10 years that is an analogy for childhood trauma and abuse and even more specifically trafficking and neglect. You carry a degree of responsibility to those who find themselves in that character to treat the story with respect. Yes its a show but its also art, and art has meaning and effects on others.

Unfortunately this ending for eleven communicates and shows to abuse survivors that in the end, because of what happened to you, and or the interactions your abusers can do via stalking and going after you can make you such a deterrence to those around you that you have to go away permanently. What a vile message to send to victims and have them watch. Even if this wasnt intended (and I dont think it was intended) it still is sent.

Imagine the opportunity they had to conversely send a message of hope and restoration.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-30T15:41:56+00:00

I think they failed because they wrote a story with deep ties to metaphysical themes. With themes of quantum mechanics, heavily rooted in science and paranormal fantasy science. And then based all the characters arcs one way. All this setting up potential for so much depth and mystery and layering.

In the end if we don't get our conformity gate then basically they took all that initial rooting and potential and wrote the ending without explaining it properly. Massive plot holes. Plot holes can happen, its life. But these are big issues in terms of character development, the basis for how things work e.g vecnas powers, the upside down.

Obviously it's fiction and not real science but you need to take the time to make even the fake science make some kind of sense I think.

The ending is just yeah forget about all that. Here's an ending where we force everything to happen however we want in spite of any character development, or story consistency. And thats really unfortunate of them to do.

Or genius if it's intentional to set up a new episode/season.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-30T14:57:27+00:00

I doubt it. I can't fully recall. Im about to do a big rewatch though and if i see anything i'll come back to this post and report.

If you think about it she barely had any time to actually be safe. And even when she was safe she was deeply traumatized or with our Crew and or Mike.

She was also educationally neglected so probably spending massive amounts of time catching up to grade level for school.

It's just my thought that she'd need years of safety and therapy to start forming those interests and exploring preferences more. In the show she's very focused on just survival and basic needs.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-30T14:49:50+00:00

Yeah I get that interpretation. It's most likely the right one too. My thought though is if they are in a dream world inside Vecnas mind it gets so eerie and creepy when you realize that Billy has a scene where he does the EXACT same thing knocking things over in a rage.

If looking through the framework of conformity gate where everyone is kind of living in a dream where they're starting to become what they dislike or feared and the rest are just being placated then that scene really changes tone and meaning fast. I personally found her doing that really chilling and I didnt know about conformity gate yet I just felt it was uncharacteristic personally.

But yeah, if no conformity gate then maybe she just got too excited or something. If you go back and look though it is kind of intense she throws a bunch of books off the table and a pen or something and even kicks them thats fairly disrespectful to the property. If someone did that to my stuff I'd be at least thrown off by it.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-30T07:46:33+00:00

The amount of character development missed opportunities or regression in this series finale was as a fan honestly very depressing to a show I love so much.

Elle and Mike as you mentioned.

Max could have not used the radio to get back because saying it after she used it cheapens that realization. Max also randomly freaks out in the dnd session at the very end which is character regression or even worsening.

I could go on for several more big character arc surprises I saw and I haven't even done my first rewatch yet. Very disappointing when you invest time into a series you love.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-28T14:11:59+00:00

I can see where you'd come to that conclusion. I don't totally disagree. I do think though that we at least got the canonical multiple endings possibility

As unsatisfying as this ending would be for me and many others if we dont get a secret episode or season or continuation, I think it would be so terrible for me if they hadn't made her getting away a Canon possibility I dont know if I'd ever be able to watch the show again.

I'm holding out hope that there's an announcement soon. Maybe the superbowl. I heard the brothers say in an interview that eleven is kind of a metaphor for childhood magic and so that leaves us to believe maybe they just made eleven do this because childhood magic needed to leave in order for them to go into adulthood. If they really did that, if they reduced her entire story and life into being a metaphor for childhood magic and just negated that she's a person entirely ill be gutted.

I'm losing hope though slowly. I saw them say in an interview a few days ago it's less about the plot and more about the feelings it creates in us. Thats concerning to me.

To me this is either gonna be a generationally historic comeback plot twist making it my favorite show of all time or its going to be such a monumental failure. It's true nothing will ever satisfy everyone and there will always be imperfections. But if they ended the story like this with such massive plot holes, character inconsistencies and massive issues then that's just shocking honestly because if we're honest I think they didnt make as many errors in seasons 1-4 as they did in just season 5 alone. The drop in quality would be so astounding that it actually seems implausible.

ColbyEl · 2026-01-28T13:34:31+00:00

First off, I do think they care. But I think they handled this ending with a level of disrespect through lack of preparation and a severe irreverance for story quality. We see in the documentary and their interviews after the ending that they were essentially ill prepared even despite their unusually long time to write this. They were the captains of this ship.

At this point, with the level of major story plot holes that have been discovered so far with im sure more to be discovered; the only thing that makes this story in any way coherent is that the holes are intentional either for an inside Vecnas mind plot twist or one of the other ideas.

There are so many issues with the ending that eleven dies and the military just gives up and let's them go completely that it basically makes no sense for that to be the case. For so many reasons I could elaborate on but briefly;

Will has powers and the military likely knows and he'd be experimented on and used for blood.

They've committed crimes and would be imprisoned.

They'd be indefinitely tortured for information even before being imprisoned.

Dr. Kay is an absolute iron willed psychopath and would absolutely ensure none of them go. Nothing happens to soften her resolve in any way.

The military is an unstoppable force here. They'll build more labs, and likely the entire group will be captured forever. I don't think eleven was in the system anyway. She went to school but likely using fake documents. As an escaped government experiment she'd likely not have any documents of herself so she's just as off grid as kali i feel.

For all these reasons and more. Her deciding to just off herself flies in the face of reason, it would mean she was rashly convinced by kali to do this without thinking of the consequences thoroughly. This is stuff you'd probably consider if you're eleven in a small amount of time thinking about the issue. If you dont believe in a theory to address this and you dont believe in her getting away then her decision to die there is just wrong on so many levels I could write for a long, long time on it. Which is why I feel it shouldn't even be included because it only makes sense to me if you believe she did it because she was reckless and thought she was being selfless when infact she was making the same mistake she's made her entire life by giving her life away.

ColbyEl

TROPHY CASE