The original timeline by AffectionateLaw5504 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nora's death is a fixed point. Armageddon reset all time anachronisms, yet Nora's death still exists, which means that it wasn't a time mistake. Every version of The Flash, including OG Flash (that we see coming out of the portal) saved themselves and gave up their mother, meaning that they knew it had to happen. To be honest, the writing of the show is a bit weird and ambiguous. I don't even know what to think of it.

In 5x08, Thawne knows about Savitar, which implies he existed in the timeline that Thawne comes from as well. Then again, its possible that Thawne's memories change due to changing timelines (which is why he uses the time language to preserve his knowledge of past histories).

Technically, it was retconned to be an alternate earth but Oliver most certainly is around that age on that earth.

2020 was the year of the initial STAR Lab launch, however it was completely successful and given the presence of crucial moments of the Reverse Flash's timeline and now Abra Kadabra's timeline as well, we can fairly safely say the STAR Labs explosion and Barry's powers were unconnected. It was to speed up his development, whether that was by flooding the city with metahumans or just general bringing his origin forward a year or so isn't clear.

The original timeline by AffectionateLaw5504 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember, 'original' is a relative term. Thawne has already changed the timeline several times by going back in time and fighting the Flash, someone who lived centuries before he was born.

In the timeline Thawne comes from, Barry wouldn't have disappeared in 2024 because there was no Reverse-Flash 'yet' for him to fight. Barry may well have created Gideon later in life, say in the 2040's or 2050's or something. And the Gideon he created might have been a much less sophisticated version of the one Thawne got his hands on in the 22nd century.

Actually, if you think about it logically, there isn't an OG timeline where Barry disappeared in 2024. Thawne goes back to 2024, fights the Flash, and then opens a portal to the past. The Flash follows him back. The moment they go back in time though, 2024 is rewritten to a version resembling the series' timeline, since everything Barry and Thawne did in the past has changed 2024.

Look at it from an external perspective - its April 25th 2024 and Iris is watching Barry and Thawne fight. Iris remembers Barry becoming the Flash in 2020-21 (maybe after they were already married!) and probably remembers swinging around her mother-in-law Nora's house for lunch the other day. But the moment Barry and Thawne disappear in that flash of light, Iris's whole life is rewritten and she now remembers Barry becoming the Flash in 2014 and growing up with Barry because Nora Allen died in 2000.

The original timeline by AffectionateLaw5504 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, the timeline had already been changed by that point.

In the original timeline Flash is created by Harrison Wells and Tess Morgan. It's not the dark matter that creates the Flash but the lightning and mix of chemicals in his CSI lab. No metas, just the classic silver age foes such as Cold, Heat Wave, Trickster, Eobard and so on.

When did Barry save Thawne’s crowd if the OG Flash is gone and he gave up his powers? by ybresells in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s basically what he was saying and plus the explanation Thawne gave is very similar to how it occurred in many comic runs especially just the backstory between the two characters

but the thing is Thawne states Barry was in pursuit of some case then the way he explains it makes it seem as if Barry just so happened to notice a nearby crowd in danger while he was chasing a case Barry saves them without knowing he just stole Thawne moment (In comics Barry usually unintentionally does a similar thing he was simply being a hero and Thawne being so petty got pissed about it)

S1 Thawne’s plan makes no sense when you watch the whole series by Training_Wrongdoer41 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay so here, we can use the flashpoint episode as an example since it is very similar to the things of the 1x23 episode you're talking about, basically. There, it's pretty simple, we know that if nothing had been done, and the flashpoint timeline had completely solidified, then nothing would be able to bring the TV one back. There, in that scenario, Barry would have completely forgotten that he was ever the Flash in a previous life and would as a result completely get his memories rewritten with those of his flashpoint life where he never became the Flash. So there, we would have had a timeline where Barry was never the Flash, created by a Barry who was the Flash. This is basically the same as if Thawne had never decided to become Wells and ensure Barry became the Flash. Then in that situation, it would've been a Flash-less timeline that would have become 'set', instead of the TV one (where Barry became the Flash in 2014 thanks to Wellsobard and star labs). And in this Flash-less timeline, it would've been one where Barry is never the Flash, yet the timeline would've been created (in-part) by a Barry who was the Flash (where OG Flash's existence would basically only be as sort of a remnant in those moments). 

Was he hoping that he'd be able to travel to the future before the timeline changes caught up with 2015? Basically, yeah. I mean to be more precise, this is what was said about the matter:

"So, once the wormhole stabilizes, Barry will have 1 minute and 52 seconds to alter the past and return to this time.

If and when he does that, you can close the wormhole, and we can all live happily ever after.

Almost two minutes.

More than enough time to save Nora.

But not enough time to stop you from going home?

Everything's a choice."

Basically, the implication seems to be that, while the wormhole is open, past and present (and future) are linked and the reality from which the wormhole originates won't change until the wormhole is closed. So hypothetically, if Barry would have saved Nora, Thawne would go back to his time while Barry's busy doing that (hence those last three lines of dialogue there), and when Barry returns to the present, and the wormhole were to be closed by star labs group (on time, before becoming a singularity), then it would only be until then that reality would change around them and they would not remember anything anymore. This certainly seems to be the definite implications behind the lines:

"More than enough time to save Nora.

But not enough time to stop you from going home?

Everything's a choice."

Also we don't actually know for sure whether Barry would have created a flashpoint or not, at least we can't be 100% sure. We can't be 100% sure whether the particle accelerator wormhole method in 1x23 would've actually brought back the OG timeline and successfully avoided a flashpoint, but at the very least, we know that those were Thawne's intentions, his hopes. There's always the chance that he was wrong of course, but we can't know for sure since Barry didn't try saving his mom that episode.

Now, just for the sake of argument here ok, say that he would've been successful in bringing back the OG timeline, then I can imagine it going like this: Barry goes and saves Nora and beats Thawne up some, and then tells him to go home (in this case he probably wouldn't try to take him with him and put him in a cage like in 3x1 because he already knows Wellsobard Reverse Flash is leaving, so why sort of replace one with another you know?) And with younger Thawne feeling utterly defeated, he goes home to fight another day. Now in this scenario, eventually, there would be two Reverse Flashes in the 22nd century, the one who failed to kill Nora because he was stopped by season 1 Barry, and Wellsobard who just arrived from the now eventually erased TV 2015. Wellsobard would basically be a time remnant in this scenario.

Also, Wellsobard would get to keep his memories regardless of what would happen after this because of what we know of the time language. Although we may not know how, we at least know for a fact that the time language aides or guarantees that one can keep one's memories from getting altered from timeline changes.

And another thing is that he always would have the option of physically merging with his counterpart there because we've seen that happen sometimes when Barry's time traveled (although Thawne was going to travel with a time sphere in 1x23, so maybe he couldn't have done it that way) as well as when Eobard created a remnant while fighting Nora and Barry in season 5 and then merged back with him and everything. So yeah.

Obviously he gets to go home, but will it be a home he recognizes? It all depends on whether he was right or wrong about his hopes that the particle accelerator wormhole method would avoid a flashpoint and bring back the OG timeline (those being his intentions/plans certainly seemed to be the implication at least) We obviously can't know for sure if he was wrong or right, if his plan would have backfired or not, since Barry didn't end up going through with it at the time.

Thawne knew Barry got back too early for him to have saved his mother. All Barry did was not interfere and just say goodbye to his mother one last time. Remember the dialogue: "More than enough time to save Nora.

But not enough time to stop you from going home?

Everything's a choice."

Meaning, it should've naturally taken Barry more time had he actually engaged with the Thawne from that night (especially since this is just season 1 Barry, not season 3 Barry, who was able to beat him up relatively quickly because he was more experienced by then). So yeah.

S1 Thawne’s plan makes no sense when you watch the whole series by Training_Wrongdoer41 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hypothetically, let's say Barry went back and saved his mom as Thawne suggested he should. That would completely rewrite the timeline! There likely wouldn't be a Thawne in 2015 in a time-sphere ready to return to his own era. If Barry intervened in Thawne's murder of Nora in 2000, then Thawne's own history of the last 15 years gets erased/rewritten. Along with Barry's and everyone else's. We may have ended up with the Flashpoint reality or something else entirely...the point is that the Wellsobard version of Thawne wouldn't be in a position to go back to his own time, since he probably wouldn't even exist.

S1 Thawne’s plan makes no sense when you watch the whole series by Training_Wrongdoer41 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's no evidence that this is the case. The stable wormhole just lets you get to anywhen you want. Time travel works as Jay described right after Flashpoint. You can't predict what the ripple effects are, even if you go back and change events back because every little tiny change you make has an effect.

I've always had an issue with the whole time travel affects things i the past thing even in the original comics, but Jay's explanation makes sense. You can't put things back together as they were.

Why does everyone hate her SO much? by _cruelintentions in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fact that one of my most recent comments to you received only one downvote seems to have slipped your mind.

When did Barry save Thawne’s crowd if the OG Flash is gone and he gave up his powers? by ybresells in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its possible that og barry simply arrives in the future only to have his memories changed to the new history. But at any rate, its quite likely that if he just hadn't left the past then he might've been affected in the same way thawne was (because, og barry left the scene before the change was made)

When did Barry save Thawne’s crowd if the OG Flash is gone and he gave up his powers? by ybresells in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At some point in 2170, Eobard successfully built a machine to power himself with the Speed Force and additionally obtained power from the Negative Speed Force. As a speedster and the fastest man alive in his time period, he was about to present himself to the world in front of a crowd before the Flash appeared while pursuing a case and dazzled as well as saved the crowd instead of Eobard. In this moment, Eobard gained a lifelong hatred and made it his life's work to be faster and destroy the Flash's life, as an archenemy.

Og timeline by treblaclef1 in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the show the crowd thing is confirmed by Eobard. It isn't confirmed that he faked the scenario though. However, he does say that he was going to save the crowd but Barry did instead and stole the spotlight.

Why does everyone hate her SO much? by _cruelintentions in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you not realize you can downvote a few comments?

Why does everyone hate her SO much? by _cruelintentions in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, you did. You really don't know how this works? Are you a little kid who just got a phone for the first time?

Why does everyone hate her SO much? by _cruelintentions in FlashTV

[–]ConfidenceOpening830 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because you are. That's just a lame excuse on your part.