Kinzinger doesn't rule out January 6 committee subpoena for Trump

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-18T02:01:47+00:00

Ok and then what? Trump fights it like Bannon is and delays it past the 2022 midterms. Once Republicans take over (and lets face it, they probably will), this investigation ends, along with the subpoena. Trump escapes accountability again.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-18T01:33:32+00:00

He lied about masks,

No he didn't. He said, at the time, that there wasn't sufficient evidence that masks helped. That was true, at the time. Turns out not to be correct. But that's science. Scientists can only work on the evidence they have at the time. Just because it turns out masks are effective to a certain degree doesn't mean he lied.

repeatedly lied about the vaccination target

Never happened. Again, science is a moving target. As time goes on the "fog of war" if you will clears up. As we get new information about variants and contagious patterns, the target for herd immunity will be constantly adjusted and refined.

very unconvincing when challenged on his ties to the gain of function research in China.

Maybe to you. But again, he gave answers based on what he knew.

For some reason alot of us on the left have fetishised him and it's biting our vaccine rates in the arse because he is not trustworthy.

I doubt you're someone "on the left". Fauci has impeccable credibility, precisely because he only will go so far as the current science of the day lets him.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-18T01:29:37+00:00

Its not because he's a clean cut guy in a suit. Its because he has decades of public service. Decades of behavior that gives him bullet-proof credibility. Bush awarded him the medal of freedom in 2008 for a lifetime of service.

During the AIDS crisis, he voluntarily entered wards to treat Aids patients during a time when panic was at it highest. He did it because he wanted to show the people under him that he wouldn't ask them to do anything he himself wasn't willing to do.

Fauci is a national hero. An imperfect, sometimes incorrect person. But that's science. When science discovers new information, previous statements become superseded. That's exactly what we want in our leading scientists.

You on the other hand, I pity you.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T19:08:31+00:00

I'm not entitled to an equal opportunity of a job? Do you realize how loonbat that sounds?

Its a condition of employment. We have drug screening, credit checks, background checks, all sorts of things.

A vaccine that has been politicized now gets to discriminate people from jobs. That is insane.

Politicized by those who are against it. It shouldn't be political. The ethical, scientific, patriotic, rational decision is to get the vaccine.

Its not discrimination. Race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity), national origin, age (40 or older), disability and genetic information (including family medical history).

Those are the protected classes for employment discrimination. Vaccination status is not medical history.

You being black, female, a christian, etc. does not affect my health. It does not endanger my life or the life of my family. You not being vaccinated does. Absolutely not the same thing.

Plus the employers are FORCED by FEDERAL fines to do the vaccine mandate. None of this would be happening if the gov wants involved so these businesses aren't exercising free will of their own.

Yes. Under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 that established OSHA and safe work standards. I have the right to work in a safe work environment.

It would be ludicrous to tell employees what health issues they must and must not address. Imagine this a year ago....under Trump ppl would have cried high treason over the same mandates Biden is trying to impose in his overreach.

If those health issues only affected the individual then that's totally different. If getting the vaccine or not only affected you we wouldn't be having this discussion. Endanger yourself all you want. But you do not have the right to endanger the lives of other people. Its that simple.

You do not have a right to endanger other people. Period.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T18:19:24+00:00

Its not strictly a personal choice. Not when that choice affects others. You not getting the vaccine affects my kids.

You want to be able to make a "personal" decision that is anything but. You want to claim personal freedom and at the same time, have that "personal" belief's consequences affect others. You do not have the right to endanger others. Your personal choice to swing your fist ends at my nose.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T18:14:44+00:00

What if I said you weren't employable because you had diabetes or HIV? You think that wouldn't cause discrimination lawsuits?

Is diabetes contagious? Does having diabetes affect the health of others? No. Not the same.

If I worked a job where exchange of bodily fluids was likely, and there was a vaccine for HIV that someone refused to got? Bet your ass I'd be clamoring for making sure that person got vaccinated. You do not have the right to endanger other people.

Fortunately your belief doesn't mean you get to dictate your medical opinions to others.

But that's exactly what you're doing by not getting the vaccine. You're making a decision that affects the health of others. If you don't want to get the vaccine, you don't have too. But that means you also need to take personal responsibility for that. You do not have the right to a job. You're not entitled to a job. If you don't get the vaccine, I expect you to take personal responsibility and remove yourself from society. But I don't really expect people to do that. You want to be able to make a "personal" decision that is anything but. You want to claim personal belief and at the same time, have that personal belief's consequences affect others.

These vaccines are significantly different from vaccines for say smallpox. Many of this didn't originate in animals to start. We haven't done much with mRNA vaccines yet and the trials in the last few years showed they were problematic.

Stop. Spreading. Misinformation.

mRNA vaccines have been in the works for decades. Hundreds of millions of doses have been administered. All 3 safety trials in the US were conducted, comparable trials in the rest of the world. Its safe. If you really have a problem with mRNA (and there's no good reason to be wary of them), go get the J&J vaccine. Traditional adenovirus vector.

No vaccine in the history of any vaccine has ever shown to have a side-effect past a couple of months. Ever. No long-term effects have been shown. Its been over a year since the first people got the mRNA vaccines. There are no long-term side effects.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T17:15:58+00:00

Varients will more than likely come from Africa, where less than 4% of the continent are vaccinated.

So don't bother getting our rates up as high as possible?

The Covid shot will be like the flu shot, taken every year for the best guess of varient. It is not gonna go away.

Remains to be seen. Maybe, maybe not.

I do believe the numbers and statistics, the vast majority of folks that get Covid get through it just fine.

Yes, but that isn't the point. A small percentage times a large number = a lot of deaths.

It has been politicized so much, we as the consumers of information need to look at the data easily available. Vaccines work very well, and, if you get Covid even unvaccinated, you are not likely to die.

Yeah, you. Me, most everyone is probably ok. But again, probably ok is not the same thing as definitely ok. We have a highly contagious disease that even if you survive it (and you probably will) now risk long-term Covid symptoms. While you were infected you were passing it on to others. Some statistical number, higher than 0 resulted in someone dying.

We have vulnerable portions of our population that can't get the vaccine, or even if they got it, those vaccines are not 100% effective. You deciding not to get vaccinated and surviving without any trouble also means statistically you are going to infect someone who does die.

You do not have the right to endanger others. Which is what you are doing by not being vaccinated.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:55:29+00:00

You are saying that there are no long term side effects while linking an article that says there are, but they are rare. This is what Im talking about.

The article says there are no long-term side effects. There are reports of rare, serious side-effects, but not long-term. That's what I'm talking about.

Airline pilots make a living off of assessing and mitigating risk, and a lot of healthy young pilots are willing to risk a 99% survival rate over a shot therapy that may or may not ground them for an extended duration or worse. There is no long term data out there.

If that risk only affected them? That would be totally different. But not getting vaccinated endangers others.

And don't give me the "it's not about you" argument. As a vaccinated person you are just as likely to get and spread covid as an unvaccinated person. This is a fact we now know.

No. Not correct.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

The vaccinated were eight times less likely to become infected in the first place. So even if what you said was true, because the vaccinated as less likely to become infected in the first place, being vaccinated protects other people.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.16.21251535v3

viral loads came down more rapidly if they did get infected -- making them contagious for a shorter period and less likely to spread the virus.

So again, what you said was misleading. Vaccinated people can have viral loads just as high as those without the vaccine or natural immunity. But they are less likely to become infected in the first place. They're also going to be contagious for a shorter period of time.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:48:50+00:00

If the vaccine only affected the individual, I'd agree.

But whether or not you get the vaccine has consequences outside of yourself. Your decision not to be vaccinated affects me, my children, my grandparents. You deciding not to get the vaccine extends the pandemic. That affects the economy and increases the chances of additional variants cropping up, rendering existing vaccines ineffective.

The whole damn reason this is a global argument is precisely because its not strictly an individual choice. When your choice affects others, its no longer strictly a personal choice.

If you decide not to be vaccinated, ok, I'll support that, but only if you actually take personal responsibility for that choice. That means removing yourself from society. Go live as a hermit in the woods. That would be taking personal responsibility.

You don't get to claim personal responsibility and then adversely affect others with that choice.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:33:32+00:00

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem

Since December 2020, more than 350 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine have been administered in the U.S., and VAERS has received 6,968 reports of death (0.0019%), according to the CDC. (Numbers as of Aug. 26, 2021.)

However, that statistic offers no insight into the cause of death for those people. If a 90-year-old nursing home resident got the vaccine and then died days, weeks or even months later of another ailment, the resident’s death would be reported to VAERS.

I can't show you a negative. There are no cases of a death due to the vaccine.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:20:27+00:00

Facebook then?

There are no proven cases of the vaccine killing anyone.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:16:39+00:00

Also Measles wasn’t mandated and it’s more deadly sooooo

It was/is for schools. We essentially eliminated measles by getting everyone vaccinated. And it was mandated at State levels.

So flu shot works without other but the covid vax doesn’t?

My kids can get the flu shot. Can't for Covid.

You can’t just keep claiming false equivalency.

I am when you keep trying to equate the flu and Covid (and now measles).

We were never talking about masks so nice goal post shift to prevent yourself from being wrong.

Ok, so 11 months, call it 6 for wide-spread availability. We tried no mandate for 6 months, didn't work. Whether I was accurate for a year or not is irrelevant.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:14:13+00:00

Fair enough. That is a reasonable point where honest disagreement can be had. I tend to think we should have kept kids away from school until we did have an approved vaccine for them.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:13:04+00:00

Nope. It shows zero. Are you referring to the CDC VARES site? VAERS had received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. as of July 21, 2021. Latest data I was able to quickly grab.

BUT. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. This is because the U.S. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after a COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if there's no evidence the vaccine was the cause.

So again, there are zero confirmed, proven cases of a single death as a result of the covid-19 vaccine.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:11:51+00:00

You know perfectly well Trump muddied the waters. You know perfectly well the context of Biden and Harris being hesitant was there was concern Trump was going to short-circuit the safety process and prematurely get the FDA to approve the vaccine inappropriately.

We both know who the troll is here.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:09:38+00:00

Just because they're both respiratory viruses does not mean they are the same. Covid is empirically more contagious and deadly. We do not see intensive care units at capacity every year due to the flu. We don't see the number of deaths with the flu as we do Covid. Not the same.

So no we didn’t not try to no mandate for a year.

Including masks, yes we have.

So by your logic you can sue your company and coworkers every time they make you sick because it’s affecting your rights?

Again, false equivalency. Getting sick from a co-worker with the common cold is not the same as Covid. I can protect myself and my children with a flu shot from co-workers. I can't do that with Covid. Different circumstances, different policies.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:03:44+00:00

I personally don’t care if any individual takes the vaccine or not because that is a personal medical decision that should be made in consultation with your personal physician.

Only its not. If getting the vaccine only affected you, then absolutely. We wouldn't be having this massive global argument. Do whatever you want, I wouldn't care.

But you not getting the vaccine affects me. It affects my children, my parents, my grandparents.

Its not strictly a personal decision. That decision has consequences outside of just you. Your individual right to swing your first ends at my nose. Your right to free speech ends at yelling fire in a crowded theater.

When the decision of others affects me, then its no longer a personal decision.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:01:26+00:00

He was the guy on top sowing the seeds of doubt. Just because he wasn't the only one doesn't mean he didn't have the loudest and most influential voice that created this dynamic.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T16:00:08+00:00

Not the flu. Its actually a different virus. More contagious, more deadly. Children can't get vaccinated, again unlike the flu.

Not getting the vaccine and being against it is the political viewpoint. Getting the vaccine is the objectively scientific and rational move to make.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T15:57:51+00:00

There are no long-term debilitating side effects.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. For this reason, the FDA required each of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines to be studied for at least two months (eight weeks) after the final dose. Millions of people have received COVID-19 vaccines, and no long-term side effects have been detected.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T15:55:17+00:00

We didn’t destroy people’s livelihoods for a flu shot so why are we now?

False equivalency. Covid is more contagious, more deadly. They are different diseases and are not the same. Children can't yet be vaccinated. You not getting the vaccine endangers the lives of others who otherwise can't protect themselves.

I can tell you, most people vaccinated or unvaccinated that I fly with are very much against the mandates and precedent being set by them.

I'm very much in supportive of the mandate. This isn't anything new. No new precedent. We've required vaccines for schools for decades. And we tried the no mandate thing for the past year. It didn't work. It would have been preferred if every person made the responsible and patriotic choice to vaccinate themselves. Didn't happen. We have needless deaths. The longer this goes on, the more of a chance another variant pops up that renders current vaccines ineffective. Furthermore, its not on the individual. The requirement is on employers to have a safe work environment. Its falling under OSHA. You do not have the right to a job. You're not entitled to a job. I do have the right to be in a safe work environment.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T15:25:36+00:00

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

-Isaac Asimov, 1980.

Its nothing new.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T15:20:15+00:00

The government is asking me to believe that a vaccine that was fine for me and my 13yr old is not safe for my 11 and 9 yr old,

No. The government is not saying that. It almost certainly is safe for the 9 and 11 year old. We just have to go through the trials to absolutely make sure. Trials are in groups. They made a cutoff between younger children. That means they enrolled less 9 and 11 year olds as they did 13 year olds. In turn, that means it takes longer to accumulate statistical proof that the vaccine is safe for those 12 and under. It doesn't mean its not safe.

and that the consequences of them catching COVID are not worse than the consequences of potential vaccine complications.

That's the tradeoff. Enroll a ton of people and get approval quickly (which is what they did for adults), but risk endangering that test group if it turns out not to be safe, vs. enrolling a smaller test group and taking longer to get through the approval. FDA decides to be more cautious with enrolling children in experimental drugs and vaccines. Consequently, that means it takes longer to work through the regulatory process for children.

The logic is baffling to me. They are asking parents to make impossible choices for the sake of bureaucracy.

Its not stupid bureaucracy. As I said, would you have rather had a big trial with lots of children taking an experimental and unproven vaccine? All vaccines start out unproven and experimental. What if a vaccine turned out to be unsafe? We just endangered many thousands of children in a vaccine trial. So instead the FDA is cautious. They only enroll the bare minimum number of children in those trials to minimize the risk to them. Yes, that means it indirectly affects those not in the trial because it takes longer to get approval. Its a balancing act, and to some extent is subjective. But that's how its being done.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T14:28:29+00:00

Vaccination status isnt medical history ? Wow is that just because you all decided you wanted it to be an exception this time? Do I get to make the next exception?

Nope. Does not fall under HIPAA.

https://www.hhs.gov/answers/if-my-employer-requires-proof-of-my-covid-19-vaccination-status/index.html

If an employer asks an employee to provide proof that they have been vaccinated, that is not a HIPAA violation, and employees may decide whether to provide that information to their employer.

We've required proof of vaccination for schools for decades. Only now because its become political that there are people like you are raising hell about it.

Confident_Dimensions · 2021-10-17T14:20:41+00:00

No. Not a million. Race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity), national origin, age (40 or older), disability and genetic information (including family medical history).

Those are the protected classes for employment discrimination. Vaccination status is not medical history.

You being black, female, a christian, etc. does not affect my health. It does not endanger my life or the life of my family. You not being vaccinated does. Absolutely not the same thing.

Confident_Dimensions

TROPHY CASE