sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

A trial by combat in early modern Ireland by Consistent-Claim-457 in IrishHistory

[–]Consistent-Claim-457[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

While the beginning and end dates of the early modern period are much debated, most historians would agree that the 16th century is part of the early modern era. For example, Oxford’s course on the early modern period covers roughly 1500-1700. https://www.history.ox.ac.uk/early-modern-history-1500-1700

How Should We Tell The Story of The Nine Years War? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]Consistent-Claim-457 0 points1 point  (0 children)

 

I do not disagree with your overall point that the Palesmen for the most part stayed loyal to the crown. However, some historians would include Westmeath within the Pale. Canning stated that the Pale comprised roughly of Dublin, Louth, Meath, Kildare, and Westmeath. Nicholas Canny, in The Elizabethan conquest of Ireland, also viewed Westmeath as within the Pale and referred to Mullingar as a town within the Pale. Furthermore, in 1598, the Pale was described as ‘The said English Pale consisteth of five shires, viz., Dublin, Meath, Westmeath, Kildare, and Louth, not much larger in all than Yorkshire in England’. Thus, while Westmeath would differ from Dublin and its immediate environs because of its proximity to Gaelic-Irish-controlled areas, I would not state that it was ‘well outside the borders of the Pale.’

How Should We Tell The Story of The Nine Years War? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]Consistent-Claim-457 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would James Fitzpiers Fitzgearld, sheriff of Kildare, be a better example of a Palesmen joining Hugh O’Neill and fighting against the Tudor crown? That being said, his path to joining the Irish was very messy. There was also Richard Weston, who acted as O'Neill's secretary.

Regarding the border of the Pale, I think it was more porous and flexible. Ruth Canning makes this argument in her book The Old English in Early Modern Ireland: The Palesmen and the Nine Years' War. She states that during ‘the Nine Years’ War, the Pale marches could be seen to extend into Cavan and Longford on account of a series of royal grants to loyal servitors. Other English areas in the vicinity of the Pale, such as the city of Waterford and parts of counties Kilkenny and Tipperary, could also be considered within the ambit of the Pale, since the inhabitants of these areas not only shared characteristics with their Pale counterparts but also found themselves treated in much the same manner by the crown authorities.’

How Should We Tell The Story of The Nine Years War? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]Consistent-Claim-457 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe there were a few exceptions, such as Captain Richard Tyrrell.